 Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi,
I'm gradually buying Z tracks for my layout, 2nd hand.
I was wondering if the turnout solenoid drives have the same "defect" the H0 ones have? I mean the end switches that will fail over time, which you can then fix by short circuiting them (for digital use at least).
I will be doing Z in analog, so that's something to consider. Anyways, should I do some tinkering with them before they are attached to the layout?
Thanks!
-Eino
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 Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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You only want to apply a momentary current to them or you will cook the solenoid.
Just stick with straight turnouts for the least amount of trouble.
I don't have any curved points or cross in my current layout.
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: Toosmall  You only want to apply a momentary current to them or you will cook the solenoid.
Just stick with straight turnouts for the least amount of trouble.
I don't have any curved points or cross in my current layout. Hi, yes that is correct. But what I'm wondering that are there safety mechanisms in those turnout drives that will protect the solenoid from too long current? In the H0 C-track drives there are, and those components break over time. There is a fix though, which is to short circuit the safety mechanism. So is there something similar in the Z scale drives, that will break over time that could be "pre fixed" before installation on the layout? Best, -Eino
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Originally Posted by: einotuominen are there safety mechanisms in those turnout drives that will protect the solenoid from too long current? No, nothing, zilch.  Best safety mechanism is a couple of spares, I have 2 left & 2 right spares. Never really broken anything in Z gauge & I'm pretty rough, within reason. Although a left arm tornado went through & I destroyed a fair number of catenary masts. I have about 30 spares if it happens again, probably gone a bit overboard. I will replace a lot of the old ones as the wire part has rusted. But other than that they are actually pretty forgiving.
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Thanks,
This pretty much answers the question!
BR,
-Eino
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Think very careful ahead for isolation of track for station sidings, block sections, shunting area & install insulated fish plates 8954 (pack of 10). You only need to do one side, but pick a side at the beginning for your entire layout, which in effect treat as your active (positive) side. Allow enough room in stations etc, more so for dead area or block sections if double heading. If using an ICE train (I have 3 sets, best train Marklin made!) & bypassing diodes (worthwhile doing) allow for the whole train length dead section.
It's a pain to do isolation later if you do realistic ballast... a pain nevertheless.
If you are building a layout a bit larger use the 660mm track length to reduce joins. A bit more effort at the start especially on curves but in the long run you will appreciate less joins.
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 Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 581 Location: England, Cambridge
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Originally Posted by: Toosmall If you are building a layout a bit larger use the 660mm track length to reduce joins. A bit more effort at the start especially on curves but in the long run you will appreciate less joins. I'd actually recommend using PECO SL-200 Flex track. A bit shorter at 610mm and slightly different sleeper spacing, but a good deal less expensive than Marklin track. Cheers Chris
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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I have used Peco in the past, sleepers are a bit different.
With Markin the fish plates are already attached like all other track, cut off the non fish plate end to length as required. Sleepers need to be cut depending on radius.
With Peco it's a bit more fiddling around as you need to get the fish plate evenly on both ends. Sleepers are a bit more flexible.
Swings & roundabouts.
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: Toosmall Think very careful ahead for isolation of track for station sidings, block sections, shunting area & install insulated fish plates 8954 (pack of 10). You only need to do one side, but pick a side at the beginning for your entire layout, which in effect treat as your active (positive) side. Allow enough room in stations etc, more so for dead area or block sections if double heading. If using an ICE train (I have 3 sets, best train Marklin made!) & bypassing diodes (worthwhile doing) allow for the whole train length dead section.
It's a pain to do isolation later if you do realistic ballast... a pain nevertheless.
If you are building a layout a bit larger use the 660mm track length to reduce joins. A bit more effort at the start especially on curves but in the long run you will appreciate less joins. Hi, This goes totally off topic, but... this is what I'm planning:  I plan to drive it with two speed controllers. One will control the gray tracks and the other one the green tracks. The purple lines will be isolation points. Each isolated section can be turned on/off. So I imagine I need to isolate both rails where the green and gray track meet, right? The green tracks have isolation areas where power can be simply turned off, so one should be enough there as you say. However I didn't quite get your message of dead areas and bypassing diodes... What are these? I however have been thinking of what will happen when loco crosses from one speed controller to another and for a fraction of time, is powered by two different speed controllers? BR, -Eino
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Isolation is only required on one side, just treat that as your "earth". The original ICE has a powered loco at each end, but the front loco always powers the rear loco. If you reverse direction then the rear loco now controls what was the front. If you are running more them 3 or 4 carriages due to all the electrical contacts there are problems getting power to the rear (running a full length train set with 14 carriages there would be 120 contacts, just not going to work). Solution is to run a bit of wire over the diodes, now both locos pick up power independently. Problem is you now have the rear loco being powered by another transformer if in a different transformer zone. If doing automatic block sections & using an 8589 to turn of power to the track behind, you need to put the 8589 far enough forward of the longest ICE train you intend to run. In a station it shouldn't be an issue if your isolation covers the full length of the station.    ICE.mov (2,462kb) downloaded 171 time(s).
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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Make sure your gradients are no more than 2%. Push the lower track down, not just push the upper track up. The more you can average gradients the better. Don't waste a vertical mm. Plot all the RLs (relative levels) on a drawing so you don't have to rebuild things. 40mm top of rail to top of rail. 
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Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC) Posts: 62 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Originally Posted by: Toosmall You only want to apply a momentary current to them or you will cook the solenoid.
Just stick with straight turnouts for the least amount of trouble.
I don't have any curved points or cross in my current layout. The Märklin turnouts and (more so) the latching relays are very robust. I have pushed them a bit, about 5-10 seconds on time, then 30 seconds off time - repeat for about 5 minutes. They got hot to the touch, but no smoke, nor failure. As Toosmall says, they only need a fraction of a second on, and then off. If you are still concerned about failure, add a master kill switch. If one gets stuck, you will hear the mains hum buzzing through the switch, hopefully enough time for you to kill the power manually.
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