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Offline nzrailfan  
#1 Posted : 03 March 2023 21:52:29(UTC)
nzrailfan

New Zealand   
Joined: 07/06/2022(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Otago, Dunedin
It seems to me when you MU two locomotives together on the CS3 that it gives itself a Marklin Motorola address for those locomotives my question is there anyway to give that address to the likes of Traincontroller for double traction running ? I have tried several options and have speed matched locomotives within millimeters but when running in Traincontroller my trailing engine always seems to lag. I have also tried "cheating" and given the same two DCC locomotives the same address which did work well until I used the auto train "drag n drop" method and then the trailing locomotive seemed to run faster. I have searched on the TC forums but no luck , which is why I am asking about the MM address as another option. Thanks.
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 04 March 2023 11:11:44(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,043
When you want to use double headed locomotives i suggest you use same locomotive and same motor to equal same value for perfect match by drive multi.
It is a lot of work to match perfect drive between two difference locomotives.
Even wheels in diameter makes a different roll on the track.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline blid  
#3 Posted : 04 March 2023 12:59:57(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I don’t understand exactly what you have done but to get a working MU you need to match a speed step sent to the decoder to a specific speed of each individual engine. The time to reach the speed is also of some importance.

So, two of the same item will probably work as a MU in the controller since the speed steps, acceleration and deceleration match each other.

With TrainController you are supposed to calibrate the speeds of the engines and you are not supposed to have acceleration/deceleration delays. For a MU TC will send (probably different) speed step values to each engine matching the chosen speed.

Note that some sound effects may cause delays. If so, you have to turn the sound of or accept that it is not a MU candidate (unless they all have the same sound delay).

When I started to test a MU I placed the engines a few inches apart and started the MU. Easy to see if they moved in sync. Forward and backwards.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 04 March 2023 19:03:26(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,184
Location: Paris, France
Hi
@nzrailfan: creating a multiple traction on a CS3 is about:
- indicating the digital address of each loco
- the CS3 when controlling the traction, to send the same orders (speed, direction, and programmable additional functions) to all units, part of the multiple traction.

What the CS3 does not do (you MUST do it):
- adjust the speed so that they are almost identical between all units
- adjust the acceleration / deceleration between all units

This is only possible with:
- manual control (no normal layout with current-interrupting signals (risk to have one loco stopped at signal while the other(s) keep on pushing)
- automatic operation with PC control software (Rocral) where there are no isolated sections needed
- using elaborate decoders (not C80s) and preferably similar mechanisms and same brand

Notes:
The traction, on a CS3 (CS2, etc) is a manual and static process (cannot drive independently the locos of a traction
With Rocrail, it is possible to create or disband multiple tractions in an automatic way (e.g.: each loco comes individually to the consist and then, as a traction, run on the layout as a single loco)


Cheers
Jean
Offline nzrailfan  
#5 Posted : 07 March 2023 10:11:34(UTC)
nzrailfan

New Zealand   
Joined: 07/06/2022(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Otago, Dunedin
Hi there,

Thanks for all your replies.

Yes I do realize that speed matching is critical.

Yes there are many options to choose from and I was looking at the simplest at that time.

Some key points, running via an MU consist on the CS3 (after speed matching) does work fine in manual control , my layout is designed for automation with which I use T/C for, as running more than three trains at once is just courting disaster in my opinion and I have hidden staging areas. After watching several video's on YouTube (mostly in German auto translated) the Zimo decoders can be paired together nicely using the DCC long address of the lead loco entered into CV19 CV20 and giving functions to the trailing locomotive via CV 21 i.e the lead Loco address 241 is entered as CV19 41 CV20 2 and CV 21 bits 0 and 5 active thus giving me the sound on both loco's but the ability to turn the lights on and off and other sound functions on the trailing loco seperate. A note here that the trailing loco WILL NOT respond to it's own throttle control now only the lead loco. I have to say this worked almost perfect but with still some mixed results with T/C which makes me think I am not totally correct across all the speed steps. Speed profiling software I think would be much easier and POM !

Maybe I am expecting to much for it to give exactly perfect results running consisted together but separated by a short distance for testing at this stage.

Lot's of different opinions on BEMF CV 58 and after much testing I still feel unsure about this setting at this stage and may continue experimenting. Does anyone have an opinion ?

Can anyone also tell me if POM if possible with CS3 in regard to DCC , I was certain it can only read but not write , programming track only for DCC I thought and if anyone has used "Trainprogrammer" with the CS3 ?

Thanks. Richard.









Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 07 March 2023 12:20:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,184
Location: Paris, France
Hi Richard
Originally Posted by: nzrailfan Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone also tell me if POM if possible with CS3 in regard to DCC , I was certain it can only read but not write , programming track only for DCC I thought and if anyone has used "Trainprogrammer" with the CS3 ?

It is confirmed in the Märklin documentation.
What is not working with a CS3 is to program programmable FX decoders when they are not placed on the programming track. The reason it, because programming FX is in broadcast mode, all present locos on the layout would be programmed in parallel.
Cheers
Jean

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline blid  
#7 Posted : 07 March 2023 12:52:40(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
If POM is available depends on the decoder as well. I think all modern decoders allow it.

When I have created MUs in CV 19 I have chosen a unique address. Not the address of the lead engine. That might make a difference.

I still think creating MUs in TC is the simplest way to go. You don’t have to speed match the decoders of the engines. You should do the speed calibration of each engine in TC anyway.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by blid
Offline blid  
#8 Posted : 11 March 2023 12:35:00(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I have just checked. With TC Bronz version you only have the simplified speed profile available. In most cases that is not god enough for MUs.

Which version do you have?
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 11 March 2023 13:06:42(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,184
Location: Paris, France
Hi
With Rocrail, multiple tractions are non only possible BUT additional, you can create a multiple traction (add a loco, remove a loco) as part of a normal operation process.
i.e.: you are not stuck with a manually created traction but your automation can do it as in real life. Of course adjusting speed and acceleration curve must be done beforehand.
As you probably already know, Rocrail does not have a fixed (expensive) licence cost. You can use Rocrail without restriction and, if you are satisfied you donate what you want when you want.

Cheers
Jean
Offline Tie  
#10 Posted : 11 March 2023 15:44:28(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
If You do not need the two locos for pulling force… I.e.: too many wagons for one loco… then it shold be possible to take away engine/gears and other heavy hidden stuff in one loco and use it as a wagon… you cold still include sound and lights ….
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 11 March 2023 16:00:17(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,184
Location: Paris, France
This is possible with Rocrail because one fonction (that can be called from a push button, a route, a tour) allows to add a loco to a train (create a multiple traction, even 2 or 3) then the consist is managed like a loco.
When arrived at destination, reverse fonctions can be invoked to remove one loco 2, or 3 from a multiple traction. Of course all this without interrupting the train operation.
No need to program anything on a Central Station or its equivalents but simply make sure the speeds and acceleration / deceleration curves and time or compatible. All is done at Rocrail level.
Cheers
Jean
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