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Offline einotuominen  
#1 Posted : 26 January 2023 17:48:04(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Kaarina
Hi guys, it's me... Again... BigGrin

So I tried googling for this, but again, can't find english resources. Also can't google in german (yet).

So I've had my first experiences with mDT today. I've managed to add prototype sounds of BR50 to one of the decoders. Got the braking sounds to work also. I'm very happy!

Then wanted to install an steam mSD3 (60975) to a V200 diesel. Found to correct sounds and set the loco type to diesel in mDT. However even that I have set "Sound without Output" to have a braking sound, the loco does not make the sound when doing hard brake. Any tips on where I should look at (I got this to work with another loco)?

Then another question about the calibration. I have MS2 so can not initiate calibration in MFX mode. So I turned MS2 to DCC only, wrote 77 to CV7 and got a few locos calibrated with DCC. Here's the questions though. Does the calibration sustain when switching back to MFX... I think it does, but not really sure? Also what happens to calibrated decoders when I take them back to the Decoder Programmer USB stick, and save new settings from mDT, does the motor settings get overwriten with what ever settings I have in the mDT project or does the calibrated setting remain?

Also, there has been references in other threads on configuring the smoke unit to have some sort of setting, that makes it smoke less when loco is running in lower speeds and more when higher speeds. Where exactly can this be controlled in mDT? I'm looking to install smoke units to metal body diesels, but wan't them to smoke only a little.

Bear with me guys, I really appreciate it.

BR,
-Eino

Offline costing  
#2 Posted : 27 January 2023 14:19:38(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 157
Location: Geneve, Geneva
1. braking sound : no idea, didn't play with it, relying on some base project that had them already. Seems there can only be one "Sound without Output" sound of type "Bremsen" in a project, dragging another one will override the existing slot if I try. So maybe there's some internal magic about choosing a sound from that category?

2. calibration : is remembered across protocols. Load the project that you have for that loco and then read back the decoder values, after you have calibrated it on the track. That way when you flush all settings back to the decoder the motor parameters will be the same, otherwise they will reset back to project defaults. I usually run the calibration + change sound volume, light intensity and such and when I'm happy with how it runs I update the project file so I don't risk loosing them.

3. if the smoke unit is attached to an AUX output, and declared to be a smoke unit output, it will act as you describe. Please see below my settings for one.

Screenshot_20230127_140752.png
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
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Offline einotuominen  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2023 18:36:48(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Kaarina
Thanks for the reply!

For some reason or another, brake sound volume was 0. It's now working when I set it to 100.

Good to know info about the calibration. So is the read back performed on the most top level main menu or is there a button for it when a project is already open?

So I guess the dimmer value (255 in your picture) controls the intensity of the smoke too, not just lights?

I don't mind doing lot of testing, but I'm sure the decoder will eventualy break if constantly being removed from the NEM board. Blink

Thanks!

-Eino

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Offline mrunix  
#4 Posted : 29 January 2023 12:45:18(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala

Can I ask how this dimmer works, is it reducing the voltage or is it pulsing the output from say 16V?

Offline costing  
#5 Posted : 29 January 2023 19:57:59(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 157
Location: Geneve, Geneva
@Eino: load the project and then from the main menu : Decoder -> Read out decoder

You don't have to remove it to fine tune settings. All of these parameters can be adjusted live with CVs, either in POM or Programming track modes. That allows you to change the running parameters without removing the decoder.

The decoder manual is thin on this topic, but one can find every tunable bit in JMRI or in the german-only sheet of information here.

For this area my settings are (as also seen below):

Aux 1 mode = CV120, bits 0-4, current value = "Smoke generator" = 7
Aux 1 dimmer = CV121, current value = 255
Aux 1 period = CV122, current value = 20
Aux 1 delay = CV123, current value = 0

So write a different value to CV 121 to lower the smoke intensity. The value is instantly applied and stored permanently in the decoder, unless you reset it to defaults (write the value "8" at CV 8) or you flush the project back to the decoder.

@mrunix: it's always PWM with these decoders, a value lower than 255 is translated in proportional time pause. The voltage is not regulated, so don't count on it being exactly 16V. More like 18V in my case.

Screenshot_20230129_195038.png
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
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Offline einotuominen  
#6 Posted : 29 January 2023 20:24:43(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post
@Eino: load the project and then from the main menu : Decoder -> Read out decoder

You don't have to remove it to fine tune settings. All of these parameters can be adjusted live with CVs, either in POM or Programming track modes. That allows you to change the running parameters without removing the decoder.


Thanks! Ah, ofcourse from the menu.

I’m on MS2 so can’t access all those settings unfortunately.

Edit: except with DCC of course, but it will anyways be pain with MS2.

-Eino
Offline costing  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2023 20:30:11(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 157
Location: Geneve, Geneva
You can write with MS2 any value in any CV, no problem.
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
Offline bph  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2023 21:06:00(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,000

As costing wrote, I also usually read back the decoder after a calibration. but the after that I normally leave the decoder in the locomotive and program any small changes through the CS3 or with it.
Note that some setting changes actually require full reprogramming with sound, and that takes a long time with a cs3. and note that it's not possible to change those settings on the cs3 or with CV's etc. Examples of such settings are the sound levels of Normlast, Leerfall and Grundrauschen etc. (Grundrauschen is only available in later decoder projects defined as Soundfile Version 2).
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Offline mrunix  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2023 21:08:46(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Hi all

Can I ask what calibration means?
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Offline einotuominen  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2023 21:51:36(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

As costing wrote, I also usually read back the decoder after a calibration. but the after that I normally leave the decoder in the locomotive and program any small changes through the CS3 or with it.
Note that some setting changes actually require full reprogramming with sound, and that takes a long time with a cs3. and note that it's not possible to change those settings on the cs3 or with CV's etc. Examples of such settings are the sound levels of Normlast, Leerfall and Grundrauschen etc. (Grundrauschen is only available in later decoder projects defined as Soundfile Version 2).


Great info on this topic.

I'm starting to build a holistic view of how this "ecosystem" is suposed to be used. It of course brings new questions, but the first one is this: There's an menu item to download projects from Märklin server. The directory structure is not exactly self explaining. Is there an index anywhere where I could seek projects by the loco name?

-Eino

Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2023 22:47:14(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

As costing wrote, I also usually read back the decoder after a calibration. but the after that I normally leave the decoder in the locomotive and program any small changes through the CS3 or with it.
Note that some setting changes actually require full reprogramming with sound, and that takes a long time with a cs3. and note that it's not possible to change those settings on the cs3 or with CV's etc. Examples of such settings are the sound levels of Normlast, Leerfall and Grundrauschen etc. (Grundrauschen is only available in later decoder projects defined as Soundfile Version 2).


Great info on this topic.

I'm starting to build a holistic view of how this "ecosystem" is suposed to be used. It of course brings new questions, but the first one is this: There's an menu item to download projects from Märklin server. The directory structure is not exactly self explaining. Is there an index anywhere where I could seek projects by the loco name?

-Eino



Unfortunately not, the best way is to use the Marklin/trix/LGB online product database and get the numbers there. eg M39 contains all released projects on Marklin 39xxx series locomotives etc. note also the subfolders under M60-L55 and W0 folder. And note that you can open decoder projects with eg 7zip and extract the sounds you want etc

Originally Posted by: mrunix Go to Quoted Post
Hi all

Can I ask what calibration means?

il try as best as I can to give a short description......
it means that the decoder performs a self-calibration of the motor, and adjusts the settings for the best performance. in most cases, it improves the driving characteristics/ performanse... and the motor type must be set before calibration. (note that there is currently a software bug in the CS3 affecting this when the system language is set to English). Sometimes you can try several motor type settings and use the one that gives the best result.
It's a bit extra recommended on bell anchor motors. (glockenankermotor).
ref the MSD3/mld3 manuals for instructions.



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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 30 January 2023 00:21:24(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,121
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

As costing wrote, I also usually read back the decoder after a calibration. but the after that I normally leave the decoder in the locomotive and program any small changes through the CS3 or with it.
Note that some setting changes actually require full reprogramming with sound, and that takes a long time with a cs3. and note that it's not possible to change those settings on the cs3 or with CV's etc. Examples of such settings are the sound levels of Normlast, Leerfall and Grundrauschen etc. (Grundrauschen is only available in later decoder projects defined as Soundfile Version 2).


Great info on this topic.

I'm starting to build a holistic view of how this "ecosystem" is suposed to be used. It of course brings new questions, but the first one is this: There's an menu item to download projects from Märklin server. The directory structure is not exactly self explaining. Is there an index anywhere where I could seek projects by the loco name?

-Eino



You need to know the catalogue number of a loco with a suitable sound file. The file names are the catalogue number prefixed with M for Marklin, T for Trix and L for LGB.

The sounds in the general sound catalogue that can also be downloaded are in sections according to sound type.
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Offline einotuominen  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2023 15:18:07(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 390
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

You need to know the catalogue number of a loco with a suitable sound file. The file names are the catalogue number prefixed with M for Marklin, T for Trix and L for LGB.

The sounds in the general sound catalogue that can also be downloaded are in sections according to sound type.


Well things actually went from not so clear to very clear after this.

These work great, even thou there are all sort of logical operations etc, I don't quite understand what they are supposed to do.

However, on these Märklin sound projects, there are quite a lot of functions mapped. Are these supposed to work with the mSD3 decoders? When I program the decoder only 16 functions go to the decoder. I read the manual, but did not notice any reference to number of available functions (except the function tables for the preloaded sounds)?

Also, has anyone ever figured out a way to edit the sound files? In my opinion the diesel running sounds are quite high pitched and I'd like to do some audio equalisation on those. Cut the high end down a bit. The .wav files inside the project file obviously are encoded to give some copy protection.

Thanks!

-Eino




Offline Kiko  
#14 Posted : 29 September 2023 18:09:07(UTC)
Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Ottawa, ON
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Then another question about the calibration. I have MS2 so can not initiate calibration in MFX mode. So I turned MS2 to DCC only, wrote 77 to CV7 and got a few locos calibrated with DCC.


Hello All!

Please forgive me for "budding in" on the OP's original question. I'm tearing my hair out trying to find anything on the "Calibration" topic (and I don't read German). My question is related to the OP's question quoted above.

I have recently purchased the Marklin Decoder Programmer (60971) and the Programmer-Tester (60970). However, my digital controller is the ECoS (no MS2 nor MS3). I have a mix of MFX and DCC (LokSound) locos. I'm trying to retrofitting a BR55 with a new Marklin decoder (60975). Once I program the decoder and install it in the BR55, is it possible to do "calibration" as per Marklin's instructions without an MS? Should I set the decoder to DCC and then proceed with setting CV7 to 77 and carrying out the calibration? Then, once calibration is done, should I switch the decoder back to MFX?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Andry
Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
Offline bph  
#15 Posted : 01 October 2023 11:06:17(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by: Kiko Go to Quoted Post
Hello All!

Please forgive me for "budding in" on the OP's original question. I'm tearing my hair out trying to find anything on the "Calibration" topic (and I don't read German). My question is related to the OP's question quoted above.

I have recently purchased the Marklin Decoder Programmer (60971) and the Programmer-Tester (60970). However, my digital controller is the ECoS (no MS2 nor MS3). I have a mix of MFX and DCC (LokSound) locos. I'm trying to retrofitting a BR55 with a new Marklin decoder (60975). Once I program the decoder and install it in the BR55, is it possible to do "calibration" as per Marklin's instructions without an MS? Should I set the decoder to DCC and then proceed with setting CV7 to 77 and carrying out the calibration? Then, once calibration is done, should I switch the decoder back to MFX?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Andry

Hi
yes, you should be able to initiate the calibration using ECoS in DCC or MM. (note I don't have an ECoS, but I have used the old 6021 and MM. Aan it should work on any controller)

you don't need to do anything on the decoder, but as the decoder has mfx priority it won't accept dcc commands if it can detect mfx signals.
So turn off the mfx protocol on the ECoS and send 77 to cv 7 in DCC.
and if you want to use MM, turn off mfx and DCC, and then send 77 to cv 7 using MM.
Offline Kiko  
#16 Posted : 02 October 2023 20:05:49(UTC)
Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Ottawa, ON
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
yes, you should be able to initiate the calibration using ECoS in DCC or MM.


Hello BPH!
Thank you for that detailed explanation -- much appreciated! I will give it a try and see what happens.

Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
Offline jonas_sthlm  
#17 Posted : 03 October 2023 20:18:03(UTC)
jonas_sthlm

Sweden   
Joined: 12/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 899
Location: Stockholm, Södermalm
Must be time for CS2/CS3 to get the latest Firmware after 3.2.2.1 (October 12, 2020) Confused


Version: 3.3.1.0 (July 12, 2023)
Bugfix: An error in which idle sounds and brake squealing no longer occurred in the braking section has been fixed
Bugfix: An error in handling the DCC programming timeout has been fixed


I am surprised that mDT3 updates itself in the background without getting a notified of newer FW Huh

Edited by user 04 October 2023 07:28:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Collecting Swedish items since the 80s / CS3+ / MSW / 60175 Booster / 60881 S88 AC / TC10 Gold / K, C-Tracks / Favorites Class Ra / modelltag.se - Forum modelltag.se - Facebook modelltag.se - YouTube
Offline Kiko  
#18 Posted : 06 October 2023 06:20:39(UTC)
Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Ottawa, ON
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
you should be able to initiate the calibration using ECoS in DCC or MM. (note I don't have an ECoS, but I have used the old 6021 and MM. Aan it should work on any controller)

I converted my BR55 (37550) successfully -- new Marklin mSD3 (60975) decoder and Marklin buffer (capacitors). However, I was unable to carry out the calibration. Since the decoder uses MFX as priority 1, once I put it on the track, it automatically registered itself as an MFX loco (even though I disabled all protocols exept DCC on my ECoS). After that, I was unable to reprogram any CVs using the ECoS because all mSD3 decoder CVs are grayed out on the ECoS. Maybe I missed something -- any pointers would help from anyone successfully tackling this Marklin decoder "calibration" art.

But... even without this "calibration", the loco runs beautifully! Using the Decoder Programmer Tool, I set the motor not as default but as #4 (coreless) since that's what this model has (a Faulhaber). The buffer capacitors do their job perfectly as well. There is a noticeable difference when running the loco with or without these buffers. Highly recommended. I've done numerous ESU LokSound upgrades and this was my first stab at using a Marklin decoder. In my opinion, the ESU LokProgrammer is more versatile and the LokSound decoder provides more freedom of programming. Even though the Marklin Decoder Programmer Tool is nice, all Marklin sound projects and files have German names. For anyone not speaking the language, this provides an extra barrier to overcome (read Google Translate to the rescue). Just my 2 cents...

Thanks for putting up with my questions. If someone does resolve the Marklin "calibration" balck art using an ECoS, I'd sure love to hear about it.

Cheers,
Andry
Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
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