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Offline flyhalf  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2023 20:55:12(UTC)
flyhalf

United States   
Joined: 11/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
On a number of my loco's and passenger wagons/cabs with pick up shoes, I experience momentary short circuits as they pass over the outer rail of Wide Radius Curved Turnouts (24771/2) - when I slow everything down and push the wagons over manually, it is very obvious that the shoe makes a connection with the outer rail, as it traverses over it, and causes a short circuit. Typically the middle rail rises up to push the pickup shoe over the outer rail but that's clearly not happening in these cases!

Has anyone else experienced this and if so did you find a remedy or a fix?


Mark

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Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2023 22:07:22(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,574
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Yes and I've discussed these issues here a number of times.

I've found the slider short circuits are caused by the version with the hole in the middle as they are not completely flat - they have a raised area around the screw hole.
I resolve it by replacing with the newer style sliders that are all solid metal. Depending on the model, this involves bending the metal clips so the old slider can be removed.

The other issue is the quality control is sometimes poor and the centre pukos are too close to the rail. This can result in the wheels touching the centre pukos on some models.
That is resolved by using a dremel to shave off a slither of the puko side where it is too close to the rail.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline flyhalf  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2023 22:36:17(UTC)
flyhalf

United States   
Joined: 11/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Thank you applor - appreciate the feedback - I will start the ball rolling on getting the newer sliders! Might reach out again when I get to the replacement and testing stage!

Cheers, Mark!
Offline Copenhagen  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2023 23:00:02(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 333
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I have a turnout where I had to put a thin slice of electric tape on top of one of the tongues because one (or perhaps more) loco slider would touch both the tongue and the middle contacts when passing over it.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 23 January 2023 00:43:41(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,030
Location: Michigan, Troy
Good idea, thanks Copenhagen!
Offline PeFu  
#6 Posted : 23 January 2023 08:18:22(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,027
It could also be that the turnout pukos are pressing the slider up on (one of) the wheel axles, or a screw or something similar above the slider. Some paint on top of the slider could do the trick.

Smile
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
The Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout on the Marklin-Users Forum and on Youtube
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Offline marklinist5999  
#7 Posted : 23 January 2023 15:39:24(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,030
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, or both. The electrical tape didn't stick for long, and the slider just took it away, so I'm trying some black acrylic flat paint on the frog rails closest to the pukos, which are higher in this area, especially on curved turnouts. The only one which causes this for me.
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Offline rbw993  
#8 Posted : 23 January 2023 15:57:22(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 902
If the pukos are too close you can also twist them a little with needle nose pliers.
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#9 Posted : 23 January 2023 18:50:25(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,441
Location: Lyon, France
Hello,

I've had some contact between wheels (mostly old wagons) and the pukos, on these turnouts.
This has been solved definitely by setting some heat shrink tube around the pukos. I mean around, not above ! You have to cut the right length of the shrink tube, put them and finally heat them.

Cheers
Fabrice
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Offline costing  
#10 Posted : 23 January 2023 23:09:33(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 151
Location: Geneve, Geneva
Same here, some wheels are too close and hit the puko. Older/thicker wheels are often the problem, increasing the distance between the inner faces to 14.2mm solved it every time.

Isolating the puko is a good idea too, but if it caused shorts before, doesn't it derail now?
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#11 Posted : 24 January 2023 12:47:43(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,441
Location: Lyon, France
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post
Same here, some wheels are too close and hit the puko. Older/thicker wheels are often the problem, increasing the distance between the inner faces to 14.2mm solved it every time.

Isolating the puko is a good idea too, but if it caused shorts before, doesn't it derail now?


Hello,

- Increasing the width to 14.2 may generate other problems later (possible derailments), so I wouldn't recommend it, even if it solved the issues for you.
- Never had derailments with heat shrink tube.

Cheers
Fabrice

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Offline costing  
#12 Posted : 24 January 2023 14:45:53(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 151
Location: Geneve, Geneva
On C track this doesn't seem to be a problem. I run DC wagons or DC-converted-to-AC locos without wheel distance modifications and none has any problem. Only older M* wagons needed touching. Newer ones are already close to this value in general.

I use a particularly sensitive 24712 wide radius turnout as a testing ground, if they don't short that one everything else is ok for me.

You are right, fixing just the offending puko might be easier :)
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin, Roco, ESU, Bemo locos / Christmas car collector
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Offline SCWHIPPLE  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2023 01:15:25(UTC)
SCWHIPPLE

United States   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: in a house
I had this exact problem on C track. I tried the suggestion of heat shrink on the point contacts, but to no avail. I tried adjusting the height of the heat shrink, and it still did not work. Wasted two days before I took out all the problem track and put it on the dining room table. The problem went away! Turns out that the wood on my layout is slightly warped. I tried pushing up one section with a prop and sure enough the problem went away! (at least where I put the prop in). I will fiddle with it tomorrow using a 4 foot level to make sure everything is flat. Stupid wood.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2023 01:44:56(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: SCWHIPPLE Go to Quoted Post
Wasted two days before I took out all the problem track and put it on the dining room table. The problem went away!

Congratulations! ThumpUp

My problems were similar to yours on my many sets of 24711/24712 turnouts with both locos and coaches, old and new. They almost all were caused by the short sliders with the raised centers and hole.

I leveled the track bases to make all of my turnouts sit perfectly flat and except for a few troublesome sliders the problem is gone. I also reduced shorts by making sure the slider is suspended correctly and that the slider itself is flat and not crowned in either direction. That was my first cut on reducing this problem, and it made a big difference..

It is a system and when it is all correct it works quite well but anything out of spec can cause a lot of problems. I had burn marks on the rails to make it easy to see where my sliders were going to ground.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline SCWHIPPLE  
#15 Posted : 28 January 2023 22:07:00(UTC)
SCWHIPPLE

United States   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: in a house
Jim,
You are correct ( and thanks for the thumbs up ). I flattened it all out and it worked well. But when I ran other locos over it some had problems. It was a case of bending the pickup shoes like you suggest.
Steve
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