Is there a way to test the power output of old k83 decoder ports (4/decoder). I use about a dozen k83s and find that all are able to drive my M-track switches, but that some vintage signals do not get enough boost to switch. This is an annoyance, but also dangerous when the current keeps going through the coils as the metal core has not moved all the way. The coil quickly gets very hot. Many signals work one way (working red or green or arm moves, but the reverse does not go all the way).
Decoders get current from CS3+ using 18 gauge wires. Wires from decoder to nearby accessories are original (24/26 gauge?). The layout uses 3-4amp when running and never trips. Issue happens whether trains run or not. Scenery is on a separate transformer.
I wonder if a multimeter can be used to check functionality, but the switching pulse is 500milliseconds or less. Any suggestions?
Ben

Hi Ben
It may be the issue is not with the 6083 but with the signals themselves especially with the 7036, 7037, 7038, 7039, 7040, 7041, 7042 and 7043.
Another possibility is the digital signal feeding them is weak (long thin wires, etc).

When subjected to heat (train staying over a contact section, etc) then the nylon making the coil core becomes soft and the internal rectangular conduit changes shape and slows down the iron core sliding in a nickel-plated gutter. In some cases, the solenoids have to be replaced. Same issues with M Track solenoids (same design approach).

Another source of issues: bended rods on semaphores and foresignals.
Mine are operated by Märklin decoders and even some old 6083 are in use and working very fine (even my 7043 humping signal from 1953)
Here is a first version of the 6083 where the transistors are easy to find and to change.


Now I prefer using 60832 (better time protection for solenoids.
Cheers
Jean

Seems that decoders are powering vintage signals just enough, or just not. Perhaps old decoders (capacitors?) just wear out. Particularly red/green signal 7188 and 2 arm semaphores give problems; switches work fine, incl 1960s stock. I ordered M83 to continue my testing.

Intermittent decoder progress report.

I added a power pack with 470 uF capacitor (+ resistor and diode to avoid cs3 startup surge) for signals (lights and semaphores), but that did not make a difference. Sometimes they work, often not. Gr/Red signal 7188 is most troubled. Track turnouts on the same decoders work all of the time, so no electronics fault.

I bought an M83, which did not appreciably improve performance. I did not include a switching power supply.

When I use decoders (old and new) on my short test track, they work fine. So, it seems a large layout (pulse?) power issue. My layout uses 3.5+ amps, based on cs3 reporting. Red/brown power supply wires are 18 gauge. Together, that should be enough juice from 5amp system, but perhaps not for start pulse of signals' solenoid.

Another test would be adding a 60175 mfx booster for switches+signals only, but that is an expensive test ($240+). I looked for a used 60174, but they are rare.

Ideas?
Ben

Edited by user 30 January 2023 05:48:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I appreciate the confidence you express in my electronics skills :-) I will first open the innards of signals and try a deep clean, which better fits my basic skills. Will report back.

Thanks PMPeter. I agree that signals themselves are key to the problem, but I find that the same light/semaphore signal on my large layout will switch partially (one way), but working flawlessly on my test setup (using exact same decoder used for both experiments). Using old k83 or modern m83 makes no difference; changing pulse time (at 300-500 millisecs) has no obvious effect. Somehow, there is power loss in the system that hovers around the tipping point for the coil mechanics.
Long wires? The k83s are 1-3m from cs3 power, but working and failing signals are not systematic with length of 18-guage wiring.
Power use from other devices? Trains are on the track, but are not running (coaches are lighted). There are also another 20 signals and 20 switches connected, drawing (diluting?) power. Total power use is 3.5-4 amps.
Mechanical resistance/wear within the signal? This is likely a key issue as some signals work fine and track turnouts have no problem. I'll do some deep cleaning today and test again.

AMBen

I think this is the most probable cause of your issues with the signals. Have you tested the signal on the layout without physically screwing it down?

Cheers,

Harold.

I’m using the S-DEC-4 turnout decoders from LIttfinski (LDT). You can add a separate power feed to the S-DEC-4, which you can’t on the old Märklin K83 decoder. Here is the solution, when a C track double-slip was struggling:

https://www.marklin-user...blem---Solved#post540799

I don’t have a Märklin M83, but know they can have a separate power feed. However, Märklin recommends their own power source having a specific plug on the M83, which makes it more tricky to test different power sources? (like old laptop chargers etc.)

Much of my train stuff got seriously wet (flood) so I aggressively cleaned signals (and switches) with wd40. Spray inside the solenoid and start switching. Nearly all challenged units of the past now work great with cs3+k83 control. Figure that.

It also loosens dirt and cleans rust. Magic spray.