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Offline tinroofrusted  
#1 Posted : 21 December 2022 05:45:05(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Hey all, I need a few Shurlock/Shurlette Holmes out there. I am running the analog M track with digital locomotives. I have a Marklin 6001 transformer powering my tracks and turnouts and a Marklin Mobile Station 2 (60653) running the locomotives. Every time I put the locomotives on the track, the 6001 pings and the lights on the switches go out. Every time I take the locomotive off, the lights come back on. Chased the wiring, it looks fine. Pulled each switch off one at a time just to make sure one was not shorting out the track...still got Ping!/lights out after each disconnect. Finally, I disconnected the 6001 from my layout, took one piece of straight feeder track (5111) and ran it to the transformer by itself. I put the locomotive on that....just ping! this time as I had no lights. So, I have narrowed it down to the 6001 transformer and the locomotive. Here comes the weird thing. It worked fine this summer. I programmed all three of my locomotives into the mobile station and it worked fine. So, anyone can think of what I have done wrong. I did the digitizing of my locomotives. They worked and now they don't. Going to keep at it as I have eyes on the situation. Any new thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.I
Thomas ( I am nooo expert at this stuff/learning stage so this is probably a dumb thing. it is just frustrating)


Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 21 December 2022 06:17:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,028
Hello! Never ever use trafo 6001 with digital MS2!! MS2 needs digital box 60116 and switch power 66130 which do have 19 VDC. Trafo 6001 feeds ac power!!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 21 December 2022 07:50:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,275
Location: DE-NW
Dear Thomas,
I have no idea what the error could be. I think I need more details how use wired things up.
Is the 6001 used for both lights and switches and MS 2?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Hello! Never ever use trafo 6001 with digital MS2!! MS2 needs digital box 60116 and switch power 66130 which do have 19 VDC. Trafo 6001 feeds ac power!!
Ah, there goes our digital expert again.
What is a 66130? The output of 66360 is 18 V DC, not 19 V DC.
The MS 2 can use the track boxes 60112, 60113, 60116, or 60114. The track boxes can be used with 16 V AC.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline tinroofrusted  
#4 Posted : 21 December 2022 07:50:36(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Hello! Never ever use trafo 6001 with digital MS2!! MS2 needs digital box 60116 and switch power 66130 which do have 19 VDC. Trafo 6001 feeds ac power!!


Hey, Goofy, thanks for the heads up. actually, I was using the 6001 to just power my analog m track. I have my 2nsd transformer, Mobile station hooked up to 66130 to power the digital locomotives, but the track leads are not hooked up to the track. So, if I am hearing you correctly, the 6001 is just ac power and I may have fried my digital stuff in my locos. I am not sure, but can I hook up the 66130 to my track to power the switches and track even though they are analog?
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 21 December 2022 07:56:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,275
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I have my 2nsd transformer, Mobile station hooked up to 66130 to power the digital locomotives, but the track leads are not hooked up to the track.
In the Märklin world we have "red" and "yellow".
"Red" comes from the MS 2 track box and should go to the centre rail only - and nothing else should go to the centre rail.
"Yellow" comes from the 6001 and goes to switches and lights.

"Brown" comes from the MS 2 track box and from the 6001. Both browns can be connected and in some setups they must be connected.

Note: When the 6001 is used to power the MS 2 track box, then you must not connect anything else to the 6001. In this case it will be harmful to connect brown from the 6001 and brown from the MS 2 track box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline tinroofrusted  
#6 Posted : 21 December 2022 09:13:10(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I have my 2nsd transformer, Mobile station hooked up to 66130 to power the digital locomotives, but the track leads are not hooked up to the track.
In the Märklin world we have "red" and "yellow".
"Red" comes from the MS 2 track box and should go to the centre rail only - and nothing else should go to the center rail.
"Yellow" comes from the 6001 and goes to switches and lights.

"Brown" comes from the MS 2 track box and from the 6001. Both browns can be connected and in some setups, they must be connected.

Note: When the 6001 is used to power the MS 2 track box, then you must not connect anything else to the 6001. In this case, it will be harmful to connect brown from the 6001 and brown from the MS 2 track box.


HO, Thanks for the reply. Here was my basic thinking. I have two different systems. The track which I wired to the 6001 to control the feeder tracks and my Turnouts. I am using the Mobile station to run my locos. So, in a sense, I have two different systems with two different controllers: the analog m track +6001 AND the locomotives + Mobile Station 2. The Mobile Station is a recent purchase, so this summer, I made an oval and programmed my locomotives into Mobile Station 2 . It seemed to work fine. But I may have been lucky. Anyway, I pulled out my train as I am making a small layout ( no room in South Korea for a big one.) I got everything together and then my digital locos had the problem of shorting out the analog track (6001) when I set them on the track. Hopefully, I did not do a SNAFFU when I hooked up the 6001 to the analog track as Goofy stated, but it has worked for years that way. I guess your wiring diagram above should work. I did not do it that way. I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 21 December 2022 09:37:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,275
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
There must be only one power source for the centre rail (red).
But sometimes you need a common ground (brown) between the MS 2 and the accessories transformer (your 6001).

If it worked in the Summer, then something must be different now.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline tinroofrusted  
#8 Posted : 21 December 2022 10:24:10(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
There must be only one power source for the centre rail (red).
But sometimes you need a common ground (brown) between the MS 2 and the accessories transformer (your 6001).

If it worked in the Summer, then something must be different now.


HO, I am going to try your wire scheme in the morning. The 6001 is NOT powering My mobile station. The Mobile station is powered by a Marklin 60116. Your wiring schematic looks right. I may have just spaced something I did this summer. I will try it out and let you know how it goes. If I damaged the digital, I will chalk it up as part of the learning curve and replace it. Stay tuned. Hey, I have one last quick question not really related, but you might know. I live in Korea. There is no real train culture of any kind here let alone Marklin. Is there some way on this site to find out if there are any other members from Korea? Just curious if that is possible. And thanks so much for your time and thoughts.
Offline amartinezv  
#9 Posted : 21 December 2022 10:42:52(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,
Hi, I don't quite understand your installation, but I'll try to clarify some concepts.
There are no analog M tracks, märklin has or has had 3 types of tracks, M, K and C, any of them can be used in analog or digital, they are simply tracks.
Is it possible to run locomotives in digital and turnouts in analog? yes it is possible, for that:
The locomotives through the track will be managed by a digital control like the MS2, only this MS2 must be connected to the track (red and brown wires).
The turnouts and accessories (yellow and blue wires) will be connected to a transformer and the corresponding switches.

Märklin has published online several documents explaining the connection possibilities, usually come in the starter packs, look for any of them
https://www.marklin-spai...l-maniobra-y-conduccion/
here they are in Spanish, in English you can also search for them.

Best regards

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline tinroofrusted  
#10 Posted : 21 December 2022 11:11:54(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post
Hi, I don't quite understand your installation, but I'll try to clarify some concepts.
There are no analog M tracks, märklin has or has had 3 types of tracks, M, K and C, any of them can be used in analog or digital, they are simply tracks.
Is it possible to run locomotives in digital and turnouts in analog? yes it is possible, for that:
The locomotives through the track will be managed by a digital control like the MS2, only this MS2 must be connected to the track (red and brown wires).
The turnouts and accessories (yellow and blue wires) will be connected to a transformer and the corresponding switches.

Märklin has published online several documents explaining the connection possibilities, usually come in the starter packs, look for any of them
https://www.marklin-spai...l-maniobra-y-conduccion/
here they are in Spanish, in English you can also search for them.

Best regards



Antonio, this is good stuff. I believe I may have just brain-dead this one from what I did this summer. I guess I am using the wrong terminology when I say analog M track. thanks for pointing that out. What I should be saying is I am still using the old blue control plates with the green and red buttons. I just can't seem to quit them. I will study the Marklin guides and mix that with what HO has pointed out. I am sure it is an easy fix, just as long as I have not already done damage to my locomotives. I will update you in the morning when I get home. thank you for your suggestions.
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 21 December 2022 12:27:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,028
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Hello! Never ever use trafo 6001 with digital MS2!! MS2 needs digital box 60116 and switch power 66130 which do have 19 VDC. Trafo 6001 feeds ac power!!
Ah, there goes our digital expert again.
What is a 66130? The output of 66360 is 18 V DC, not 19 V DC.
The MS 2 can use the track boxes 60112, 60113, 60116, or 60114. The track boxes can be used with 16 V AC.


Relax!!! Mad
Leave out of your agenda.
I did wrote wrong number of the power feeder.
In fact does power shows between 18-19 VDC by use 66360.
TS...i recommended you by follow Märklin recommended use power feeder 66360 for the box 60116 when you use MS2.
Use 6001 trafo for the lighting or something else.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 21 December 2022 12:39:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,275
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
TS...i recommended you by follow Märklin recommended use power feeder 66360 for the box 60116 when you use MS2.
Use 6001 trafo for the lighting or something else.
Relax. That's what he is already doing.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline ocram63_uk  
#13 Posted : 21 December 2022 18:44:46(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
if the OP says that "The Mobile Station is a recent purchase, so this summer, I made an oval and programmed my locomotives into Mobile Station 2 . It seemed to work fine." I assume that the oval was an isolated piece of kit.
Today he is trying to merge the 6001 and MS2 stuff and the information provided above is correct.
I have the same situation, analogue equipment and digital trains. My vintage stuff, 7186 and 7051, are powered by a white transformer and the locos and switches by my EcOS.
Offline tinroofrusted  
#14 Posted : 22 December 2022 14:00:49(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
There must be only one power source for the centre rail (red).
But sometimes you need a common ground (brown) between the MS 2 and the accessories transformer (your 6001).

If it worked in the Summer, then something must be different now.


Well, I did the wire changing. That is in order, but for some reason, my Mobile station 2 is not Programming the trains. I am going to keep at it and try to figure out what is going wrong. Thanks for your time, everyone.
Thomas
Offline ocram63_uk  
#15 Posted : 22 December 2022 19:12:58(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
try programming on a short isolated piece of track
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ocram63_uk
Offline BenP  
#16 Posted : 22 December 2022 23:34:44(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
There must be only one power source for the centre rail (red).
But sometimes you need a common ground (brown) between the MS 2 and the accessories transformer (your 6001).

If it worked in the Summer, then something must be different now.


Well, I did the wire changing. That is in order, but for some reason, my Mobile station 2 is not Programming the trains. I am going to keep at it and try to figure out what is going wrong. Thanks for your time, everyone.
Thomas


Use a seperate programming track, with one loc at a time.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline tinroofrusted  
#17 Posted : 23 December 2022 01:08:42(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
I was nervous I would blow the Mobile Station so I did not wire the wires coming from My mobile station (60116) as the instructions said only one Track box can be connected to the layout.
There must be only one power source for the centre rail (red).
But sometimes you need a common ground (brown) between the MS 2 and the accessories transformer (your 6001).

If it worked in the Summer, then something must be different now.


Well, I did the wire changing. That is in order, but for some reason, my Mobile station 2 is not Programming the trains. I am going to keep at it and try to figure out what is going wrong. Thanks for your time, everyone.
Thomas


Use a seperate programming track, with one loc at a time.


Ben, Thanks for the reply. I have done that. I think I have a ghost in the machine as the mobile station is acting up. I am going to try and reset it today. My display is breaking up a bit and unfortunately, I live in Korea so I do not have anyone near me who can update with another Marklin accessory as they can not be updated from a computer. Long story short, if I can not get this to work. it will be taking a vacation to the states where a friend can try and get it right.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by tinroofrusted
Offline Copenhagen  
#18 Posted : 23 December 2022 11:12:44(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 379
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It's possible that the Mobile Station has been damaged in all this mixing with different power supplies.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Copenhagen
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