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Offline einotuominen  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2022 13:29:42(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
Hi there,

So I've done a couple conversions with motor 60944 and the old decoder 60760. Anyways, I've now installed the motor 60944 with a new mLD3 60982 decoder. Everything basically works very well, except for a strange electricity issue. For some reason the loco comes to a halt very often. Lights turn out and engine stops. At higher speeds it tries to jerk on, and manages with it, but at slow speeds it comes to a permanent halt...

So I guess the issue is either in grounding or in track power pickup.

However, I don't believe grounding to be the problem... I left some copper visible on the decoder ground wire near the soldering point. When I press multimeter to any wheel and the copper in the wire, I get an excellent constant beep. Decoder ground wire is connected to two different places, the motor and also to the connection point of the old reversing unit. Anyways, ground goes all the way up to the decoder wire.

Pickupshoe is connected wire to wire with (wires entangled) with the existing pickupshoe wire and decoder red wire. The joint is also soldered. I do get beep from multimeter, but not as clear as from the ground connection.

Now this is interesting, The loco needs only light push sideways and it starts off again. Of course when pushed forward it will also start again.

Here's the question: How do I debug this? I mean when the loco comes to a halt, what should I do to find out if there is a problem in ground connection or with power connection? Also what is the possibility that the new decoder is defected, has anyone ever come across such a case?

Thanks again guys!

Best regards,
-Eino
Offline BenP  
#2 Posted : 08 November 2022 14:35:36(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

So I've done a couple conversions with motor 60944 and the old decoder 60760. Anyways, I've now installed the motor 60944 with a new mLD3 60982 decoder. Everything basically works very well, except for a strange electricity issue. For some reason the loco comes to a halt very often. Lights turn out and engine stops. At higher speeds it tries to jerk on, and manages with it, but at slow speeds it comes to a permanent halt...

So I guess the issue is either in grounding or in track power pickup.

However, I don't believe grounding to be the problem... I left some copper visible on the decoder ground wire near the soldering point. When I press multimeter to any wheel and the copper in the wire, I get an excellent constant beep. Decoder ground wire is connected to two different places, the motor and also to the connection point of the old reversing unit. Anyways, ground goes all the way up to the decoder wire.

Pickupshoe is connected wire to wire with (wires entangled) with the existing pickupshoe wire and decoder red wire. The joint is also soldered. I do get beep from multimeter, but not as clear as from the ground connection.

Now this is interesting, The loco needs only light push sideways and it starts off again. Of course when pushed forward it will also start again.

Here's the question: How do I debug this? I mean when the loco comes to a halt, what should I do to find out if there is a problem in ground connection or with power connection? Also what is the possibility that the new decoder is defected, has anyone ever come across such a case?

Thanks again guys!

Best regards,
-Eino


Sideways jiggle fix may indicate that the wheels do not always complete the power circuit (slider + wheel ground). Clean the wheels with alcohol and a toothpick. Make sure the wheel sides touching track are clean too.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BenP
Offline Donb  
#3 Posted : 08 November 2022 14:56:48(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
An additional ground wire to the chassis may help.
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
Offline bph  
#4 Posted : 08 November 2022 15:06:37(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Now this is interesting, The loco needs only light push sideways and it starts off again.

That is a good indication of poor ground. Did you try to solder a ground wire directly on the non-motor bogie? of course, it can also be a poor connection on the pickup shoe or dirty track/wheels, but you mentioned earlier that other locomotives worked fine and that you had cleaned the tracks.
a second solution might be to install a buffer capacitor. You can easily make one yourself, or you can probably also use 60974, but you must cut off the plug and solder individual cables to the 60982. It might be worth considering 60972 in future projects, it makes things easier and safer to use a mtc interface.
you can also make a buffer capacitor and use the susi plug for easier testing etc, like this: https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/

Edited by user 08 November 2022 18:54:18(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed link

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline einotuominen  
#5 Posted : 08 November 2022 15:22:54(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
Hi,

thanks for the experienced answers. So I'm also leaning towards ground issue even though this time I paid extra attention to it. BigGrin

Observation I've made in meanwhile:

- After "forcing" the loco to run, it now seems to run mostly without problems

- Most jerks happen at turnouts or at some contact tracks... I think this is indication of ground issue, even thou on workbench with multimeter I get good ground, I'm now aware that on tracks the contact between wheels and rails may not be "optimal"

I'll try these:

- Add ground connection directly to the motorless bogie

- Inspect the wheels again for impurities and clean with IPA

- Look into buffer capacitor



Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 08 November 2022 18:25:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

you can also make a buffer capacitor and use the susi plug for easier testing etc, like this: https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/


That URL just gives me "#blocked" when I try to access it. It doesn't even get the URL onto the URL bar of the browser.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2022 18:38:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

you can also make a buffer capacitor and use the susi plug for easier testing etc, like this: https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/


That URL just gives me "#blocked" when I try to access it. It doesn't even get the URL onto the URL bar of the browser.


I figured out what the problem is. The highlighted part in the link shouldn't be there ...
[url=http://]https://www.mittelleiter-...
Offline einotuominen  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2022 18:43:56(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


That URL just gives me "#blocked" when I try to access it. It doesn't even get the URL onto the URL bar of the browser.


Copy paste works though.
Offline bph  
#9 Posted : 08 November 2022 19:11:16(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

you can also make a buffer capacitor and use the susi plug for easier testing etc, like this: https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/


That URL just gives me "#blocked" when I try to access it. It doesn't even get the URL onto the URL bar of the browser.


I figured out what the problem is. The highlighted part in the link shouldn't be there ...
[url=http://]https://www.mittelleiter-...


the highlight was supposed to be there, but the link address was missing.....Blushing
How it was supposed to be:
[url=https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/]https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/[/url]
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 08 November 2022 19:57:43(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

you can also make a buffer capacitor and use the susi plug for easier testing etc, like this: https://www.mittelleiter-magazin.de/uncategorized/susi-schnittstelle-fuer-puffer-schaltung-nutzen/


That URL just gives me "#blocked" when I try to access it. It doesn't even get the URL onto the URL bar of the browser.


I figured out what the problem is. The highlighted part in the link shouldn't be there ...
[url=http://]https://www.mittelleiter-...


the highlight was supposed to be there, but the link address was missing.....Blushing
...


Sorry, I should have said the BOLD portion of the bit of the URL I quoted should not be there (rather than the highlighted portion).
I got to the desired page by copy/paste the rest of the link.
Offline einotuominen  
#11 Posted : 09 November 2022 08:09:03(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
So I believe I've solved the issue. At least the symptom has not appeared since the fix. Here's what I did:

- Connect ground directly to the non engine bogie. Did not make a difference, but at least now the loco has really good ground.

- Changed the pickup shoe. The original pickup shoe was somewhat short, so I changed it into a longer one and it seems to have fixed the problem.

Let's see if I'm right about it!

Thank you all,

-Eino
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
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