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Online Michael4  
#1 Posted : 06 November 2022 11:24:11(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast
I have an M track layout with actions controlled by 5107 connected to signals.

I cannot see a way to run a train with more than one power pick-up without causing problems. Coaches that are illuminated are a particular problem as would be 3015 if I had one (wishful thinking!).

Apart from setting up coach lighting as a 'daisy chain' getting its power from the loco is there any way round the problem (not mentioning Train Tech type LED installations)?

I have never liked 5105 because it seems to me that it would send lots of impulses and if the train stopped on it it would fry a solenoid somewhere.

Is there a trick to solve this?

5107 is the track with a sort of tumble switch in the centre actuated by passing power pickups/sliders/skates
5105 is the track with a short of isolated rail that is actuated by a wheel running over it.
Online kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 06 November 2022 12:44:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,496
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post

I have never liked 5105 because it seems to me that it would send lots of impulses and if the train stopped on it it would fry a solenoid somewhere.


The trick to solving the 'train stopped leaving solenoid activated' problem is to use a capacitor discharge unit between the rail and the solenoid. These are arranged so they charge a capacitor relatively slowly, then when activated discharge the capacitor through the solenoid. But the extra trick to them is that while the circuit to the solenoid is maintained the capacitor will not charge up and only a low current flows.

This one is typical of many commercial ones, and is the circuit I would recommend (although why it has so many resistors in parallel I don't understand).

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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 06 November 2022 14:10:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,570
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
I have an M track layout with actions controlled by 5107 connected to signals.

I cannot see a way to run a train with more than one power pick-up without causing problems. Coaches that are illuminated are a particular problem as would be 3015 if I had one (wishful thinking!).

Apart from setting up coach lighting as a 'daisy chain' getting its power from the loco is there any way round the problem (not mentioning Train Tech type LED installations)?

I have never liked 5105 because it seems to me that it would send lots of impulses and if the train stopped on it it would fry a solenoid somewhere.

Is there a trick to solve this?

5107 is the track with a sort of tumble switch in the centre actuated by passing power pickups/sliders/skates
5105 is the track with a short of isolated rail that is actuated by a wheel running over it.

Hi Michael
Indeed the trains with multiple sliders complicate operations with slider-operated contact tracks.
There are ways to circumvent this but it complicates the wiring.
Here is a link to one of the Märklin manuals for signals https://www.marklinfan.net/Documenti/SignalManual.pdf
The trick is to add a circuit to disable the contact rail just after the first slider activates it and to re-activate it, once the train is gone. Usually it takes one additional relay to do this.

I have a 3015 and a one slider operation is OK (the slider is short and there is a need to have a minimum speed to cross DSS, crossings or triple switches).

My all time favorite is the Märklin 6600, dedicated to analogue operation (no digital locos allowed):
- allows a simple shuttle operation (one input with make a direction change inpuls)
- allows automatic operation in yars
- allows smooth start and stop
- alas released too late: just before 1984 and the avent of digital operation.
- one of the most under-rated device in Märklin stuff

Here is a video of what you can do with it (it can do way more things)


Cheers
Jean


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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2022 16:13:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,570
Location: Paris, France
Hi again

Here is a special video on how to use those slider-operated contact tracks in multiple slider trains.
It is in German but may help you

Jean
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Online Michael4  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2022 16:45:05(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast
Many thanks for the information, plenty of food for thought.

I loved 6600 and have used one a lot in the past however I managed to fry my unit. It is in the hands of another forum member but I fear may be beyond repair.
Online Michael4  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2022 17:26:30(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast
Jean,

Your comment got me thinking...

"The trick is to add a circuit to disable the contact rail just after the first slider activates it and to re-activate it, once the train is gone. Usually it takes one additional relay to do this."

Now, at last, I understand...

1) Train is stopped at contact track 1
2) Track is switched live (by something else) and train moves forward
3) Almost immediately it passes over contact track 2
4) Contact track 2 activates a 7045 which disables contact track 1
5) All the train passes over contact track 1 and 2
6) Further down the track the train passes over contact track 3 which activates 7045 to reconnect contact track 1

7045 is the remote switch, an old broken signal could also be used.

What could be simpler!?!
Offline hxmiesa  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2022 13:10:56(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,594
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
I have an M track layout with actions controlled by 5107 connected to signals.
..
Is there a trick to solve this?

Depending on what kind of signals you use...
If you are using older Märklin signals common to the hey-days of M-track, you could use the signals additional catenary power contact; It is closed when signal is green, and it is free of potential.
You could simply route the impulse from the 5107 track through this contact; That would allow the first slider to set the signal to red, and then cut off all consecutive impulses.

It all depends on how and where you run your automatization. It is posible that a simple spacing out of the 5107 tracks would solve your problems; Install the 5107 much further down the line after the signal.

tempsignal.bmp
Impulse might be too short though, for slow-moving signals and relays, but you can try....
It´s definetly better to go with 2 * 5107 tracks and an extra relay for each signal...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Online Michael4  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2022 23:35:10(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast
Quick update, I have got it working reliably with three 5107 and one 7045 for each signal.

The positioning of the 5107s is important and so is the the position of the pick up shoe (slider) on the first carriage.

There is adjustment to be done!
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Offline andersson  
#9 Posted : 13 December 2022 16:51:35(UTC)
andersson

Sweden   
Joined: 02/05/2022(UTC)
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Many thanks for the information, plenty of food for thought.

I loved 6600 and have used one a lot in the past however I managed to fry my unit. It is in the hands of another forum member but I fear may be beyond repair.


Hi. I just bought a 6600 and I'm curious what you did to fry yours? I don't want to do that myself.

Online kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 13 December 2022 20:23:33(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,496
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: andersson Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Many thanks for the information, plenty of food for thought.

I loved 6600 and have used one a lot in the past however I managed to fry my unit. It is in the hands of another forum member but I fear may be beyond repair.


Hi. I just bought a 6600 and I'm curious what you did to fry yours? I don't want to do that myself.



Don't short the output, there is a very thin track that burns out. It is also possible to burn up the output transistor.
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Online Michael4  
#11 Posted : 13 December 2022 23:21:16(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast


Don't short the output, there is a very thin track that burns out. It is also possible to burn up the output transistor.


So Is that what I did to mine?

Online kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 13 December 2022 23:32:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,496
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post


Don't short the output, there is a very thin track that burns out. It is also possible to burn up the output transistor.


So Is that what I did to mine?



Yes, that appears to be the problem. I should have it back to you soon, PO strikes permitting.

Online Michael4  
#13 Posted : 14 December 2022 09:45:08(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: England, South Coast
Hi Alan,

That's great news, thanks for your help.

Best

Michael
Offline andersson  
#14 Posted : 19 December 2022 10:49:41(UTC)
andersson

Sweden   
Joined: 02/05/2022(UTC)
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: andersson Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Many thanks for the information, plenty of food for thought.

I loved 6600 and have used one a lot in the past however I managed to fry my unit. It is in the hands of another forum member but I fear may be beyond repair.


Hi. I just bought a 6600 and I'm curious what you did to fry yours? I don't want to do that myself.



Don't short the output, there is a very thin track that burns out. It is also possible to burn up the output transistor.


Thank you for this important information! I will make sure to avoid that!
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