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Offline BenP  
#1 Posted : 28 August 2022 16:45:40(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
I have started with pc control of my layout using rocrail. Switches, signals, sensors are all recognized in rocrail.
I cannot find how to change signals or switches when a train passes over contact track and triggers action. Specifically in my cs3 events the trigger checks for occupancy to decide which way to throw switch. How can i control this in rocrail, so changed switches and signals show accordingly. I would like to move fully to rocrail control, if possible.
screenshot.png
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline PMPeter  
#2 Posted : 28 August 2022 17:22:24(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Port Moody, BC
Just looking at your Rocrail plan I see that you generally only have one sensor per block and a number of sensors outside of the defined blocks. This is not ideal for Rocrail control. It is recommended to have 2 sensors per block wherever possible and allow Rocrail to control the switch and settings outside of the blocks based on the Route requested or selected by Rocrail.

To me it appears like you are trying to combine a contact track control and Rocrail control at the same time which would explain the problems you are encountering. Generally for Rocrail control you would let the software determine the switch and signal settings, not a contact track.
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Offline BenP  
#3 Posted : 28 August 2022 17:47:04(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Just looking at your Rocrail plan I see that you generally only have one sensor per block and a number of sensors outside of the defined blocks. This is not ideal for Rocrail control. It is recommended to have 2 sensors per block wherever possible and allow Rocrail to control the switch and settings outside of the blocks based on the Route requested or selected by Rocrail.

To me it appears like you are trying to combine a contact track control and Rocrail control at the same time which would explain the problems you are encountering. Generally for Rocrail control you would let the software determine the switch and signal settings, not a contact track.


Thx. So, i am mixing software functionalities. I'll add a 2nd contact for blocks and will try that. Does rocrail know that a block is empty and what matching position a signal has?
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#4 Posted : 28 August 2022 17:47:10(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I concur with PMPeter. For instance, bk1 has no sensors at all; fb12 should probably be moved to the other side of sw12.

The shuttle line needs to be broken to two blocks. Likewise, the short circular track. The tracks leading to sw22 do not belong to any block; it would be better to make it a block of its own.

To associate sensors and switches with the blocks, run the "routing" command in the File menu. It will generate most of the stuff you need, although the small triangle of switches 12, 15 and 16 may need manual help.

In general, "in" sensors define the spots where the locomotives may stop. Looking at the track plan, I am uncertain of whether they are all placed properly. For instance, to make trains stop at signal sg1, a sensor next to it is needed. Likewise for sg2.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#5 Posted : 28 August 2022 17:52:04(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
Does rocrail know that a block is empty and what matching position a signal has?


With two sensors per block, Rocrail can monitor trains entering a block ("enter" sensor) and exiting the previous block ("in" sensor). Simple 2 or 3 aspect signals are set automatically once they are properly defined in the "Signals" tab of the Block window.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline PMPeter  
#6 Posted : 28 August 2022 18:17:41(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
Does rocrail know that a block is empty and what matching position a signal has?



Yes Rocrail knows if a block is empty provided you have the appropriate sensors configured. Generally when you have 2 sensors per block the first sensor the loco encounters is the Enter sensor and the second sensor is the In sensor. These need to be defined for the block depending on which side of the block you are entering from, the + or - side. If you only have one sensor in the block it needs to be defined as Enter2In.

Therefore even in your Rocrail plan the pink blocks are occupied, the yellow block is unoccupied but reserved for your Ice train, and the white blocks are unoccupied. However, as has already been pointed out bk1 has no sensors so Rocrail has no way of knowing whether it is or is not occupied.

In Rocrail the signals are cosmetic and are set by software programming, not by contact tracks. Therefore, the former way of cutting power to track sections depending on the signal position is not required for Rocrail control. The whole signaling configuration in Rocrail can be tricky and it is best to leave that until all the sensors, switches and routes have been configured properly.

Peter
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Offline BenP  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2022 18:20:46(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
I concur with PMPeter. For instance, bk1 has no sensors at all; fb12 should probably be moved to the other side of sw12.

The shuttle line needs to be broken to two blocks. Likewise, the short circular track. The tracks leading to sw22 do not belong to any block; it would be better to make it a block of its own.

To associate sensors and switches with the blocks, run the "routing" command in the File menu. It will generate most of the stuff you need, although the small triangle of switches 12, 15 and 16 may need manual help.

In general, "in" sensors define the spots where the locomotives may stop. Looking at the track plan, I am uncertain of whether they are all placed properly. For instance, to make trains stop at signal sg1, a sensor next to it is needed. Likewise for sg2.


What i did was use my cs3 based layout with sensors that trigger behaviors (incl occupancy status). The rocrail block concept is new to me, and it seems that i need to redesign it for that.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2022 19:22:46(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
I have started with pc control of my layout using rocrail. Switches, signals, sensors are all recognized in rocrail.
I cannot find how to change signals or switches when a train passes over contact track and triggers action. Specifically in my cs3 events the trigger checks for occupancy to decide which way to throw switch. How can i control this in rocrail, so changed switches and signals show accordingly. I would like to move fully to rocrail control, if possible.
screenshot.png


Pardon me but if you are a not beginner I may be saying things you know already.

There cannot be any link between the events on your CS3 and Rocrail. So using Rocrail, all CS3 Events must not be used / triggered.

With Rocrail, you have a very simple way to control a signal:
- to attach a signal to a Block (+ or - side) and specify the signal's name (go to Signal xx Properties, Signal tab. Signal must be already registered in Rocrail (address, protocol and command station's name).

A block is defined by its sensors (ENTER, IN, ENTER2IN, etc) for each direction (routes, line All ENTER+ or line All ENTER-
When you are finished with designing your track plan, inserting all blocks and their sensors, you must:
- check if your layout is sound by running the router/extended plan check. There must be NO errors
- run the router/ routing. This will create all the routes between adjacent blocks, in both directions if no arrows are used
- each created route will set the switches / double slip switches, triples, etc needed and in which position

So, the way it works, you have a train T1 in Block A and you drag and drop the train in Block B.
You MUST be with power ON and in AUTO mode
If the Block B is free and IF the train is in the proper direction, then the route will be set (all needed switches will be reserved and positioned) and after 1 second, the signal turns green and the train starts

Proper Train direction:

- the loco may be in forward or reverse (both are possible) to leave a block (if wrongly set, the train will start in the wrong direction).
- the Blocks's entry side must be set so the little arrow points towards Block B (if wrongly set, the train will not start)
How to correct? Right click on the Block in question, then select Swap Logical side or Swap Block enter side as needed.

Proper placement of sensors
- for each Block you have typically ENTER (slows down the entering loco) and IN to set the speed to zero
- you may have one sensor per block (ENTER2IN). It works very well BUT no precision stopping and reduced security. This works also for bi-directional blocks

Where to locate sensors?
- inside a block with the IN sensor located 20 cm before the signal, ENTER is the rest of the Block
- If one sensor per Block: It is called ENTER2IN and is a short section of detection near the center of the block (so a train is almost totally in the block when it starts being detected)
- if bi-directional then a first sensor on 20 cm when entering, a second sensor 20 cm when leaving the Block and a section in the remaining central zone (PRE2IN or SHORTIN)

Block assignment of sensors
- right click on a block --> properties and select the routes tab
- select all enter+ and below enter the sensors (what name) and their assignment (ENTER, IN, ENTER2IN,..)
- do the same for all enter- the sensor used for the other direction.

Note: the same sensor MAY be used multiple time fa1 is used for ENTER in one direction and IN in the other)
There is so much to say that I need to stop and listen to your questions
here is a Rocrail Tutorial in English. There are many in German and some in French

Cheers
Jean
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Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2022 19:39:58(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Port Moody, BC
While I agree with what Jean is saying, I do not totally agree with his comments on simplicity of Rocrail and signals. Yes, if you have signals associated with one block the process is simple as Jean states by making the proper definitions within the block properties. However, if you have signals outside of the blocks as shown in your plan, or signals in Crossing Blocks, or Distant signals on a station entrance for example, then the process is more involved and will require Rocrail Actions and Rocrail Commands and in some cases the generation of script files. This is all doable, but requires a fair bit of Rocrail knowledge and sometimes help from the Rocrail Forum to solve a particular signal situation where interestingly enough there is quite often controversy among the respondents. This is why I stated to get the Sensors, Blocks, Routes and Turnouts working properly before getting wrapped up in the cosmetic signal displays.

Peter
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 28 August 2022 19:56:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Peter
I am sure you understand that I was trying to make things simple.
Lets make it simple

- for Rocrail all signals are decorative

- the unit to control trains is called BLOCK


ALL signals controlling the train flows MUST be at the end of a block because USUALLY Trains stop / reduce speed after the conductor sees a signal, NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE

Advance signals are NOT DIRECTLY DRIVEN by Rocrail and rather controlled together with the main signal it belongs to
This is also the case for departure signals: they are driven typically by Rocrail ACTIONS.

Agreed there may be much more complex signal up to 6 positions and with Rocrail they are usually controlled by Rocrail ACTIONS associated with routes (e.g.: depending where the train goes, full speed or reduced speed may be required.
Here is my train control


Cheers
Jean
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marshalling yard
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Offline PMPeter  
#11 Posted : 28 August 2022 20:16:29(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hi Jean,

Totally agree. However, I was merely pointing out that in his plan Sg2, Sg3 and Sg12, for example, are not a simple configuration in Rocrail in those locations and that Block configuration.

Peter
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Offline BenP  
#12 Posted : 28 August 2022 20:45:53(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Very helpful responses, marklinistas. I will change the architecture of my layout to create meaningful blocks. Adding contacts is quite doable, though it'll take little layout redoing. I have lots of unused contact tracks and have made my own for special situations. I will start with the outside loop that only has two station segments on otherwise single track loop.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 28 August 2022 21:55:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
In the beginning to make it easy and not irreversible, with C Track, use the insulation sleeves to make contact tracks

Later, I strongly suggest you to normalise the stopping distances called IN (in my case 20 cm for stopping from V_mid or V_min).
In this manner, adjusting V_cruise, V_mid and the inertia on each loco, allows all trains with very different speeds to stop precisely on the same spot.

For ENTER sections, use the rest of the block.
Alternative:
- 1 sensor (ENTER2IN), small, 20, 30 cm, in the center of the block. Trains must be much shorter than Blocks
- 3 sensors (ENTER, SHORTIN, IN) where SHORTIN is for very short trains for them to stop near the main building
- 3 sensors bidirectional (ENTER, PR2IN, IN for one direction and (IN, PR2IN, ENTER) for the other direction.

Once you get used to Rocrail, cut the rails with a portable drill (Proxxon, Dremel) is very quick but be sure to remove all metal dust with a vacuum cleaner.
A cut rail can be easily restored to its former self and the small Märklin contact sock tend to play tricks
Another point to verify: normal rail insulation by Märklin C track may not work because the distance between to consecutive tracks is a fraction of a mm and sometimes can short itself.
Cheers
Jean

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Offline BenP  
#14 Posted : 28 August 2022 23:40:25(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ben
In the beginning to make it easy and not irreversible, with C Track, use the insulation sleeves to make contact tracks

Later, I strongly suggest you to normalise the stopping distances called IN (in my case 20 cm for stopping from V_mid or V_min).
In this manner, adjusting V_cruise, V_mid and the inertia on each loco, allows all trains with very different speeds to stop precisely on the same spot.

For ENTER sections, use the rest of the block.
Alternative:
- 1 sensor (ENTER2IN), small, 20, 30 cm, in the center of the block. Trains must be much shorter than Blocks
- 3 sensors (ENTER, SHORTIN, IN) where SHORTIN is for very short trains for them to stop near the main building
- 3 sensors bidirectional (ENTER, PR2IN, IN for one direction and (IN, PR2IN, ENTER) for the other direction.

Once you get used to Rocrail, cut the rails with a portable drill (Proxxon, Dremel) is very quick but be sure to remove all metal dust with a vacuum cleaner.
A cut rail can be easily restored to its former self and the small Märklin contact sock tend to play tricks
Another point to verify: normal rail insulation by Märklin C track may not work because the distance between to consecutive tracks is a fraction of a mm and sometimes can short itself.
Cheers
Jean



I am working on it, Jean. BTW, I use M rail.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#15 Posted : 29 August 2022 00:07:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post


I am working on it, Jean. BTW, I use M rail.


Sorry Ben
Jean
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Offline BenP  
#16 Posted : 02 September 2022 21:23:31(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
RocRail is a bit of struggle for me. I redid my layout with sensors and such and have no trouble moving trains from block to block. I just seem unable to make a schedule that works, for example moving a loc over the outer loop. I had it working once, but now it stays stuck on mode loop of wait-idle-auto. Somewhere there must be a setting wrong in the schedule.
Ideas?
Clipboard01.png
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 02 September 2022 22:19:49(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
I felt this difficulty myself (because of my ignorance).
Here are a few tips for the schedules to work fine:
- set your schedules to work in RELATIVE TIME, otherwise RR will wait until the hour is correct
- when you set wait times remember that these a real minutes unless you ask the clock to "tick" faster (10 times in my case), this is called a divider. See below the time setting
RR Time accelerator.png

- wait times will be observed by a loco only if in its properties, Detail tab, the box "use schedule departure time" is ticked.

Here is a simple, stupid schedule starting at block 160, then 137, 133, 134 and then back to 160. It does 2 identical loops (simple to start, later you will make much more complex things
RR Schedule.png
Notice the red frame: time is relative
Notice the green frame: all week days are valid
Notice the Blue frame: to set arrival and departure times (usually in absolute timing.

I hope this helps

Jean
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#18 Posted : 03 September 2022 00:44:10(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Hi BenP, looking at your screenshot, the locomotive "TEE" is supposed to be heading to the block "OutLoop". Nevertheless, the track plan does not include a block with that identifier, so no routes to that destination cannot exist, and the loc will stay in "wait" mode forever.

All in all, the track plan only defines four blocks, and most of the tracks are outside blocks and cannot be handled properly by Rocrail.

So my previous suggestions are still valid:

- every part the tracks delimited by switches (where a locomotive may stop) should be defined as a block
- every block (with the possible exception of short terminal tracks) needs two sensors, designated as "enter" and "in"
- the shuttle line and the short circular line need both to be broken in two blocks each
- use the "Routing" command to associate sensors to the blocks and to create the routes between adjacent blocks, including setting the switches between the blocks as may be needed.

In the track plan, a few sensors are lit, indicating that a train is occupying them. However, these sensors are not associated with any blocks, so Rocrail cannot make any use of the information.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline BenP  
#19 Posted : 03 September 2022 02:10:44(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
I solved this, but not knowing the underlying issue. I removed and deleted the locos, restarted RR and then reinstalled them. Now they work. I must've set something in their operation, but don't know what i did. There are so many settings in rocrail.
I now have two trains alternate on shared track. Next getting the signals to work, which is cosmetic only. Then i have to position the in sensors, so that stopping better matches the platforms. Very different braking behavior of 2 trains, which i may have to adjust.
Getting there, though many many hours later. Thx for support.

Edited by user 03 September 2022 06:04:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline BenP  
#20 Posted : 03 September 2022 02:17:21(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
Hi BenP, looking at your screenshot, the locomotive "TEE" is supposed to be heading to the block "OutLoop". Nevertheless, the track plan does not include a block with that identifier, so no routes to that destination cannot exist, and the loc will stay in "wait" mode forever.

All in all, the track plan only defines four blocks, and most of the tracks are outside blocks and cannot be handled properly by Rocrail.

So my previous suggestions are still valid:

- every part the tracks delimited by switches (where a locomotive may stop) should be defined as a block
- every block (with the possible exception of short terminal tracks) needs two sensors, designated as "enter" and "in"
- the shuttle line and the short circular line need both to be broken in two blocks each
- use the "Routing" command to associate sensors to the blocks and to create the routes between adjacent blocks, including setting the switches between the blocks as may be needed.

In the track plan, a few sensors are lit, indicating that a train is occupying them. However, these sensors are not associated with any blocks, so Rocrail cannot make any use of the information.


I get your points and learning. I test new functionality using one outside loop only. Once i get it working and understand the settings options, tackling other parts of the layout will be easier. I purposely removed all other blocks from layout, so there are no false routes. Sort of like the step-by-step example described in manual. Slowly getting there.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
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Offline BenP  
#21 Posted : 04 September 2022 05:15:02(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Progress and new plan.
I am now able to move trains around on schedules, with stops, decelerations etc in blocks. I next tackled the signals, but changed my approach.
Since they are cosmetic only, i use the cs3 to trigger several signal actions. Timing and settings are easy with cs3 events, especially with so many contact tracks to trigger them. Other signals are directly connected with switches, using same decoder #. When RR throws switch, it changes signal accordingly. One disadvantage is that RR does not show signal setting and changes.
I assume that integrated signal control is possible in RR blocks, but have not discovered the convenience and flexibility that timed cs3 events offer.
So, i am using RR to move trains around the track on schedules and cs3 to control some accessory items, which seems a good solution for now.
Am I missing an obvious timed signals implementation in RR? The manual is skimpy on this integration.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#22 Posted : 04 September 2022 13:35:44(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
I assume that integrated signal control is possible in RR blocks, but have not discovered the convenience and flexibility that timed cs3 events offer.

RR equivalent to CS3 events is called ACTIONS, they can be delayed, subjected to AND and OR conditions, subjected to specific routes, locos, etc. RR possibilities are almost limitless (much bigger than a CS3 (I have one).
The simplest is of course to connect a digital signal to a RR Block: When the Blocks allows a train departure, the signal on the APPROPRIATE side will turn green or to HP1 or HP2 for semaphores.
One simple stupid example: one of my steamers has a tender with a servo to adjust the height of coal. When the loco goes to the coaling bunker RR raises the coal level.
Another example: each loco has it own length, speed characteristics, etc so RR allows to start a loco-specific ACTION to uncouple it.

Another thing: RR allows editing and duplicating the logic (Action, Tours, Schedules) while the CS3 is clearly a progress compared with a CS2 but remains way behind RR.
Cheers
Jean

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Offline BenP  
#23 Posted : 05 September 2022 00:01:07(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Motivated by constructive comments from experienced users, i returned to signals in RR. The actions menus are complicated, but I found that linking signals with + and - of blocks gets me the functionality i want. Signals change just before trains start to move and reset after leaving destination block. My CS3 events are now limited to sound files that i use, instead of embedded train sounds (most trains without a sound decoder).
Next I want to look at loco F functions, like lights on before departing and off when stopped. I have a mix of basic marklin dc decoders, marklin ac decoders and lokpilot5 decoders. Suggestions?
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#24 Posted : 05 September 2022 18:55:17(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Loco functions are quite easily accessed with actions tied to relevant state changes. I use them precisely for turning the loco lights on and off, etc., and also for reading aloud station announcements.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline BenP  
#25 Posted : 05 September 2022 19:33:46(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
Loco functions are quite easily accessed with actions tied to relevant state changes. I use them precisely for turning the loco lights on and off, etc., and also for reading aloud station announcements.


Martti, can you post an example of one of your action menus? Thx
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#26 Posted : 06 September 2022 20:02:25(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Sure, here's the XML script "Käynnistys.xml" (Finnish for "Startup.xml") for starting the locos up:

Code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<xmlscript>
    <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Lights" fncmd="on"/>
    <sleep time="2000"></sleep>
    <switch var="%lcid%">
        <case val="BR 103 137-6">
            <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Cabin lights" fncmd="on"/>
            <sleep time="2000"></sleep>
            <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Front pantograph up" fncmd="on"/>
        </case>
        <case val="BR 01 147 H">
            <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Engine" fncmd="on"/>
            <sleep time="200"></sleep>
            <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Firebox" fncmd="on"/>
            <sleep time="200"></sleep>
            <fn id="%lcid%" fndesc="Steam" fncmd="on"/>
            <sleep time="2600"></sleep>
        </case>
    </switch>
</xmlscript>


The script is linked to the relevant block (in the example, "Ratapiha 1a") with this setup:

UserPostedImage

The corresponding reverse operations are handled by another script that is launched when the final destination block enters the "in" state.

Note that the XML macros can access many kinds of information through pre-set text variables (such as %lcid% in the example). They are documented on the Rocrail wiki page text-gen-en, which took me a while to find.

The references to loco functions (fndesc="Engine", etc.) are defined in the Functions tab of the Locomotives window.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline BenP  
#27 Posted : 09 September 2022 04:03:04(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
The placement of block contact tracks is critical for stops, but in a few places I cannot optimally position the "in". I am looking for "in" action delay, so that train stops a little later. I can do this with "enter2in", by setting event timer, but "in" does not respond to event timer delays.
Am I missing something?
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#28 Posted : 09 September 2022 12:51:14(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
The placement of block contact tracks is critical for stops, but in a few places I cannot optimally position the "in". I am looking for "in" action delay, so that train stops a little later. I can do this with "enter2in", by setting event timer, but "in" does not respond to event timer delays.
Am I missing something?

Hi Ben
Yes there are workaround placements (with information delays) BUT there are always drawbacks that affect operation's reliability sooner or later.
This is particularly true for the IN information where the START of the information must be (just my opinion) located 20 cm before the desired stop location.
You know Ben, - in another thread of yours - that there are excellent ways to create a contact track on M Track where you want and the length you want.

Alternately, if you have long blocks and short trains you may, on some blocks , trigger the IN signal in anticipation with a delayed edge.

Using ENTER2IN provides the less precision in dealing with the exact stopping location.

Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline BenP  
#29 Posted : 09 September 2022 13:48:28(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
The placement of block contact tracks is critical for stops, but in a few places I cannot optimally position the "in". I am looking for "in" action delay, so that train stops a little later. I can do this with "enter2in", by setting event timer, but "in" does not respond to event timer delays.
Am I missing something?

Hi Ben
Yes there are workaround placements (with information delays) BUT there are always drawbacks that affect operation's reliability sooner or later.
This is particularly true for the IN information where the START of the information must be (just my opinion) located 20 cm before the desired stop location.
You know Ben, - in another thread of yours - that there are excellent ways to create a contact track on M Track where you want and the length you want.

Alternately, if you have long blocks and short trains you may, on some blocks , trigger the IN signal in anticipation with a delayed edge.

Using ENTER2IN provides the less precision in dealing with the exact stopping location.

Cheers
Jean



I am retrofitting my layout for rocrail operation, but in one section there are bridges where the trains stop. The bridges are vintage metal, so not suitable to convert to contact function. 'Enter2in' gives a solution, which 'in' delay would do more precisely. Like you say, i have one track length stop distance with 'in', but need 2 track lengths.
I am enjoying the rocrail implementation, especially it's scheduling control, but the learning ramp is steep. The forum is so helpful.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#30 Posted : 09 September 2022 14:40:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Yes Indeed there is a pleasure to create new processing logic that knows no limits.
Rocrail allows things to be done that were not in manual mode (sorting wagons, assembling trains, etc.
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
The bridges are vintage metal, so not suitable to convert

The 2 metal bridges where conversion is very difficult are:
- the 7163 "Bowstring girder bridge"
- the 7162 "Lattice girder bridge"

I assume, the difficulty is not so much to remove the rails but rather, after their insulation and re-installation to cut the heatshrink tube just above the rail stapples.

Note: a modelist here in France, uses a thin, self adhesive copper foils, affixed on top of the rail, being insulated from it by the adhesive.
Something like this is being used https://www.ebay.de/itm/38495058...BT8%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqvSOpORg
Cheers
Jean



My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
Offline JohnjeanB  
#31 Posted : 09 September 2022 16:04:54(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Here is a post on how to create a contact zone on M track
1 - adding a copper insulated band on the track https://forum.3rails.fr/t/rails-...ontact-pas-cher/17835/12
2 - modifying M track to obtain a long or short contact track https://www.stummiforum.de/t1507...gleise-selber-bauen.html

Sorry for the foreign languages but some pictures are self explanatory
Note: the second method can be used also to create a full size contact rail (insulate the entire rail length on one side) It also gives much better and discrete results while the first is to be used on bridges etc.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline BenP  
#32 Posted : 21 September 2022 04:21:57(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Good progress, but new Rocrail question.
I have a (green) shuttle track and created two terminal stations at the ends. The program recognizes the routes, but does not switch the direction of my Mfx shuttle at the terminals. Sensors are read and connected to block. I must be missing a direction switch permission (I set shuttle as commuter train).
Picture of layout with route shown (Sh3 to Sh2). Train goes the wrong way, although route plan is correct.

Clipboard02.png
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#33 Posted : 21 September 2022 12:50:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,187
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
Regarding your shuttle in green:
- check that on both extremity Blocks of the shuttle, the box "Terminal station" is checked (ticked).
- check that "Commuter train" is checked on locomotives/properties/details. This makes the direction change of the loco in question, easier.
- check, when you start, that the block entry side is correct (the arrow on the block must point towards the other shuttle block). If not select "swap block enter side".
- if the loco starts in the wrond direction than select "swap logical direction"
- of course you must be in AUTO mode and start the loco.

I hope this will help
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#34 Posted : 21 September 2022 17:42:51(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 313
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Hello Ben,

What Jean said, and if nothing else works you can set up an action evoked by the "in" event of terminal blocks that issues the loco command "swap":

UserPostedImage

The 1000 ms delay allows the digital locomotives to come to full stop before reversing the direction.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline BenP  
#35 Posted : 21 September 2022 22:15:47(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
I think I found my mistake. The train enters on the negative side of the block, but the sensor was linked to the positive side (like other blocks in layout). Now it works perfectly. I started to assign signs and tweak the enter2in timing for optimal stops. Next adding some actions at stops.
Thanks for the responses that made me take a deeper look.
Digital M track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories.
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