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Offline cintrans  
#1 Posted : 16 July 2022 01:37:41(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Hi

I found this video on line:

and although i understand the "how to" program part, i would like to learn a bit more about the 2e part of the video where additional addresses are added to the ICE so additional functions can be called up....

I have a BR212 (product#37000) MFX lok that has a total of 10 functions, but as i only have the 6021 controller only 4 are available to me....
Do i understand correctly that if you add a second (and third) address, the other functions become available to?

Is there somewhere a writing (or video) on this in English?

I can not really find in dept programming instructions (using 6021) for MLD decoders on line..... ESU write up on the lokpilot decoder is a lot more comprehensive so i used that one as a starting point.....

Regards

Jean-Pierre
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 16 July 2022 13:58:29(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
I don't think so, but you can try it. I didn't know you can program a second address to any given model. usually, the older ICE's with FX decoders meaning the expanded MM format had a decoder for eaxh end car direction which had to be set the same. The 6021 has 4 rear dip switches to enable the FX function format.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 16 July 2022 17:06:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think so, but you can try it. I didn't know you can program a second address to any given model. usually, the older ICE's with FX decoders meaning the expanded MM format had a decoder for eaxh end car direction which had to be set the same. The 6021 has 4 rear dip switches to enable the FX function format.


There are CVs defined for programming second and third addresses (and fourth address in mld/3-msd/3 decoders).

Early decoders had a second address already set up as the factory default address +1. Try that on your 6021 for functions 4-8.

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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 16 July 2022 18:00:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think so, but you can try it.
It can be done.

With some decoders I had to use a Central Station to enable additional addresses, but it still is worth trying with a CU 6021.

See also:
http://blog.mailez.de/eb...unctions-with-mfx-locos/


Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Early decoders had a second address already set up as the factory default address +1.
More recent locos use the default addresses 255, 254, and 253. Not available with CU 6021, but can be used with e.g. IntelliBox.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline cintrans  
#5 Posted : 17 July 2022 02:58:55(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Thanks guys!

Success!
It did not work "out of the box", so i programmed cv-75 for address #2 one higher then the main address and can now access F5 ~ F8 ThumpUp

Have a few more MFX loks to try this with now!

Regards

Jean-Pierre
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Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 17 July 2022 09:17:32(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Auckland,
Proof again that the 6021 is still the best digital controller 😍
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 17 July 2022 11:31:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Proof again that the 6021 is still the best digital controller 😍


Dunno about that - you use up addresses fast when doing this. You could rapidly drop your 80 loco possible to 20 locos available if they all need 4 addresses to cover all the functions.

But there is another trick with the 6021 and control 80f units, but I need to go and look it up first.
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Online PJMärklin  
#8 Posted : 17 July 2022 12:39:05(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Proof again that the 6021 is still the best digital controller 😍


Hello Michael,

A delightful post !BigGrin

"Music to my ears"; you are "preaching to the converted".ThumpUp


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


Regards,

PJBigGrin
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 17 July 2022 13:45:33(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Wow! Those look like all 6021's with keyboards. So you have many seperated blocks.
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Offline cintrans  
#10 Posted : 17 July 2022 14:26:53(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Waw, that is a nice layout, PJ Love

Your right, old does not necessary mean obsolete.... BigGrin

Regards

Jean-Pierre
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Offline torhb  
#11 Posted : 17 July 2022 14:49:52(UTC)
torhb


Joined: 08/11/2001(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Oppegård,
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Wow! Those look like all 6021's with keyboards. So you have many seperated blocks.


If you look closer, you will see that there is only one 6021 approx. in the middle. The rest to the right are 6036s (Control 80f).

Regards
Tor
Tor Harald Bøhler
Oppegård, Norway
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 17 July 2022 15:17:49(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
And there will be lots of boosters hidden somewhere to power the various track sections.

What I'd like to know is where PJ stole that BR218 with TEE colours from, as shown in the 2nd picture and if there are any more (way off topic I know, but then the OP's question has been answered)!?
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Online PJMärklin  
#13 Posted : 18 July 2022 09:37:26(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: torhb Go to Quoted Post

If you look closer, you will see that there is only one 6021 approx. in the middle. The rest to the right are 6036s (Control 80f).
Regards
Tor


Yes, as you say only one 6021 (I have a couple of spares also) and to the right are seven 6036, so I can directly, individually
and immediately control each of eight trains running concurrently on the four main lines of the layout.
To the left are three keyboards and two memory units, thus I can digitally control 48 turnouts but they are more often controlled
as multiple items constituting a set route via the two memory units (48 routes in all). I have a further eleven turnouts less often
used (mostly in the steam facility area) that are manually controlled.



Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
... What I'd like to know is where PJ stole that BR218 with TEE colours from...


I stole it from here Laugh :

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
(the thief in the foreground) :

UserPostedImage


It came home with all our stuff but then shrank in the wash ! LOL :


UserPostedImage


The DB 218 217 in TEE colours is Märklin 30747, bought quite some years ago; not sure from where (I suspect eBay) and not
sure when but the box indicates originally produced in Dec 1996 whereas the manual indicates Mar 1997. Koll's says 1997-2004.
Here it is in my Märklin 2000/2001 cattledog but in the real the red is a deeper shade, as you can see :

UserPostedImage


I converted it to digital with a Lokpilot v4.0 and changed the motor to 5 pole.

Here is an image of the prototype (Photo by Wouter Haver ) :

UserPostedImage

It would seem the original prototype 218 217 received the red/beige livery in 1974 as an experiment and was the only one
in those colours, save 753 001 (ex 217 001) which became the second many years later, see here.

Yet the one at Koblenz museum is 218 105 Confused seen here on the tracks (Photo by Leon Schrijvers) :

UserPostedImage



Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
... and if there are any more? ...

There are more David, a check of eBay.de shows some here BigGrin :

UserPostedImage



Regards,

PJ Smile
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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 18 July 2022 09:45:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
The DB 218 217 in TEE colours is Märklin 30747, bought quite some years ago; not sure from where (I suspect eBay) and not
sure when but the box indicates originally produced in Dec 1996 whereas the manual indicates Mar 1997. Koll's says 1997-2004.
Those interested in a full-length model can go for Märklin 39184.
Roco offered a Hobby model 59460, but not as detailled.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 18 July 2022 10:23:27(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Proof again that the 6021 is still the best digital controller 😍


Dunno about that - you use up addresses fast when doing this. You could rapidly drop your 80 loco possible to 20 locos available if they all need 4 addresses to cover all the functions.

But there is another trick with the 6021 and control 80f units, but I need to go and look it up first.


I believe there was a way to extend loco address with a 6021, although I may be getting confused on that. It’s been a while.

One of the reasons I say the 6021 is the best controller is that over the years I’ve used almost all the Märklin controllers to differing degrees, and I always find myself coming back to the 6021 because it is fast, logical, reliable and predictable.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 19 July 2022 02:09:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Those interested in a full-length model can go for Märklin 39184.


I did look for one but to no avail.

Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post



Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
... and if there are any more? ...

There are more David, a check of eBay.de shows some here BigGrin :

UserPostedImage


Thanks for the run down of the BR218 in TEE colours. If you look at those auctions you listed you will find the first one is no longer there......Love LOL Drool

One of those things I guess, you look and look for one at a decent price never finding anything. Then all of a sudden when you wern't thinking about them, a reminder flashes past and you find a sample at a reasonable price. Even though this month's budget has well and truly been breached.....
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 19 July 2022 17:45:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

But there is another trick with the 6021 and control 80f units, but I need to go and look it up first.


Surprised no-one has chased to ask what the neat trick is, or maybe everyone knows.

I was shown this trick by Dieter Lorenz from Marklin when the first 37990 Insider Big Boy came out, it was one of the first locos with more than four functions + lights.

On the keyboard of the 6021 and control 80f there are two buttons beside the '0' button, one labelled 'L' and the other labelled 'F'. The controllers power up with the 'L' button as the active function, and so when you enter a loco address you can control the loco speed and the five available functions.

But if you have a decoder where the function numbers greater than 4 can be mapped to additional loco addresses (both Marklin and ESU decoders can do this) then push the 'F' button and enter the additional address (it has to be in the 1-80 range, it won't accept 81-255). Now you can control an additional four functions using the F1-F4 function keys.

But here is the sneaky part of the trick - the speed knob still controls the speed of the address entered on the 'L' side. So it is possible to switch back and forth between the two sets of functions just by using the 'L' and 'F' keys, making 8 functions easily available, but the speed knob is always controlling the speed on the 'L' side.

if you have more than eight functions then you could program the 'F' side of an additional control 80f to another additional address, even if it is controlling a different loco, and have more than 8 functions readily available.

So have fun folks with all those functions you have available.

Bigdaddynz may like to put a link to this post from his useful permanent links pages.



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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 20 July 2022 00:27:25(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Bigdaddynz may like to put a link to this post from his useful permanent links pages.


Done.
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 20 July 2022 00:40:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
On the keyboard of the 6021 and control 80f there are two buttons beside the '0' button, one labelled 'L' and the other labelled 'F'.
You can find a description of this trick if you click the link in post #4.
The old 6021 is an efficient and versatile controller.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline bph  
#20 Posted : 20 July 2022 12:25:44(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Actually, the use of L and F buttons is sometimes "required", in order to operate a model properly on the 6021.

eg with the Ardelt Steam Cranes 49570/49571
on this crane, the hook up/down is located on f5 (original mapping from Marklin)
So in order to control the hook, you need to activate the 2nd address and keep the primary address on "L" and the second on "F" in order to raise or lower the hook with the speed knob.
Personally, I prefer to operate my digital cranes on the 6021, so it s one of the main reasons I have connected it to my CS3. Cool
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#21 Posted : 21 July 2022 16:27:08(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Fascinating trick! I have to say the object my 6021 has consistently rendered useless to me is actually the mobile station. I find it to be mildly annoying, and everything takes longer than just punching buttons on a 6021. That joined with this MFX function hack really makes me find the MS2 to be more hassle than helpful - at least to advanced hobbyists. The MS2 is of course a great starter set inclusion and way to get going.
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline marklinist5999  
#22 Posted : 22 July 2022 16:25:20(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Oh, the MS2 is definatley more work, but once the functions are programmed at least they remain, and the shift key access them all. I like it as a secindary unti to my CS3, so it's possible to run at least 4 items at once without moving the Loco menu's when I use the 3rd. pop up controller on the CS3. I would need the 6021 connect box in order to incorporate it in my system.
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