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Offline AlanC  
#1 Posted : 28 April 2022 09:00:37(UTC)
AlanC

Bulgaria   
Joined: 05/04/2022(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Bulgaria
Non-Marklin rolling stock often runs very badly on C-Track. I recently bought some Brawa wagons and they do not run well on C-Track turnouts and curves. I tried fitting some spare Marklin wheels but they were too long in axle length and are so tight the wheels won't turn. I see that Brawa make their own AC wheels. Do these run well on C-Track? There seem to be several Brawa AC wheel sets and I can't find any detailed information about what is the difference between them. For instance there are 2188, 2187, 2181 - all of which are disc wheels. (Edit: OK I now found an instruction sheet buried at the bottom of each wagons box. It seems I need item 2187 for the 4 wagons in question. Cost €50.32 - ouch!!)

I would be interested in any general advice about wheel standards and issues when running non-Marklin rolling stock.

Also do non-Marklin AC locomotives have wheels that run well on C-Track?

Thanks for reading my questions.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by AlanC
Online H0  
#2 Posted : 28 April 2022 09:32:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,525
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: AlanC Go to Quoted Post
I would be interested in any general advice about wheel standards and issues when running non-Marklin rolling stock.
Several dealers allow to specify that you need AC wheelsets and they will swap them free of charge.

I have a tool from Fuhrmann that allows to adjust the wheel spacing. Solves the issues for me.

Originally Posted by: AlanC Go to Quoted Post
Also do non-Marklin AC locomotives have wheels that run well on C-Track?
In my experience: Yes.
In rare cases there will be issues with smaller flanges, especially on M track. But the bulk of locos runs well.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark5  
#3 Posted : 30 April 2022 15:14:59(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: AlanC Go to Quoted Post
I would be interested in any general advice about wheel standards and issues when running non-Marklin rolling stock.
Several dealers allow to specify that you need AC wheelsets and they will swap them free of charge.
I have a tool from Fuhrmann that allows to adjust the wheel spacing. Solves the issues for me.
[...]


Hello Tom,
Can you post an image of the tool or a link to exactly which tool you use to adjust the wheel spacing for your rolling stock. Assuming it works for locomotives as well however more complicated... what are the issues in using the tool?
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam... so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:06:38(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,275
Location: Southwesternmost
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Offline Mark5  
#5 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:13:51(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post


Remind me again, so 14.3 is the standard spacing for Marklin? How much is the difference from most other manufacturers?
sorry its late ...lazy question i guess
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam... so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
Offline Copenhagen  
#6 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:39:34(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post


Remind me again, so 14.3 is the standard spacing for Marklin? How much is the difference from most other manufacturers?
sorry its late ...lazy question i guess

It's a bit more complicated. In the link you can see the "Radsatz Richtgeraät" that is the tool that can change the wheel spacing on DC wheels where one wheel is mounted on a plastic bushing allowing it to slide on the axle.
If a DC wheel set has problems on Marklin track problems are usually solved by reducing the spacing to below 14,3. The 13,8 is an old Marklin standard. Most AC wheels are spaced higher than that but they are un-problematic because they have larger flanges than DC wheel (which often have smaller, more prototypical flanges). Sometimes DC wheels are even above 14,3 and will benefit from being reduced to 14,3 or lower.

Edited by user 01 May 2022 18:52:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#7 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:41:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,275
Location: Southwesternmost
My lazy reply: MOROP norms NEM 110 & NEM 310 deal with two-rail dimensions while NEM 340 addresses Märklin exceptions:

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem110_d.pdf

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem310_d.pdf

https://www.morop.org/do...oads/nem/de/nem340_d.pdf
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
Offline ocram63_uk  
#8 Posted : 01 May 2022 14:54:27(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 581
Location: England, Suffolk
to adjust wheel spacing I use this tool: https://www.fohrmann.com/en/wheel-spacer.html
This tool works fine if the wheels are free to move along the axle

I have only 1 set of Roco passenger coaches that I had to change the wheels to. Goods wagons do not need to be changed, IMO
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by ocram63_uk
Online H0  
#9 Posted : 01 May 2022 17:53:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,525
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
to adjust wheel spacing I use this tool: https://www.fohrmann.com/en/wheel-spacer.html
This tool works fine if the wheels are free to move along the axle
That's the tool I use.
I give the wheels one third of a turn with that tool without checking the gauge. Your mileage may vary.

The typical DC wheelsets have one wheel with a plastic ring (insulation). I insert the wheelset so that the wheel with the insulation will be moved.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark5  
#10 Posted : 06 May 2022 18:00:22(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
to adjust wheel spacing I use this tool: https://www.fohrmann.com/en/wheel-spacer.html
This tool works fine if the wheels are free to move along the axle
That's the tool I use.
I give the wheels one third of a turn with that tool without checking the gauge. Your mileage may vary.

The typical DC wheelsets have one wheel with a plastic ring (insulation). I insert the wheelset so that the wheel with the insulation will be moved.


So basically there is no major advantage to changing over to the AC wheel sets other than set wheel spacing if the DC sets are decent metal wheels in good shape; that is, as long as you can adjust the wheel spacing on them with a tool.

I have a good number of Roco FS cars, among others, that I have run well with no adjustments on C-track, but I did get derailments on slip switches. I was thinking of changing wheels but am leaning toward getting the tool to adjust.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam... so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
Online H0  
#11 Posted : 06 May 2022 18:39:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,525
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post
So basically there is no major advantage to changing over to the AC wheel sets other than set wheel spacing if the DC sets are decent metal wheels in good shape; that is, as long as you can adjust the wheel spacing on them with a tool.
It works for me coz I don't have contact tracks.
I don't adjust Roco wheelsets coz they don't give me any problems on my C track pieces.

Märklin level crossings and contact tracks will not work with "DC" wheelsets.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline rbw993  
#12 Posted : 07 May 2022 00:51:19(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 883
Mark,
I have found that it isn't just wheel spacing. AC flanges are deeper and allow the wheel to ride on the rim through the frogs on switches. I had one particular AC ROCO locomotive that wouldn't track well until I changed the wheelsets to ones with deeper flanges.

Regards,
Roger
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Offline Mark5  
#13 Posted : 07 May 2022 02:44:11(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
It works for me coz I don't have contact tracks.
I don't adjust Roco wheelsets coz they don't give me any problems on my C track pieces.

Märklin level crossings and contact tracks will not work with "DC" wheelsets.


Ah yes, I had forgotten about the contact rails. Of course. Hmm. Perhaps that could have a use however, if you wanted only the loco to trigger the contact rail, or a certain car to do so.

And if you want to save some money on changing wheel sets but still have contact rails triggered you could change just one out of four axles, all things being equal otherwise for balance and aesthetics.
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1955-65, fan of V200, electrics and steam... so hard to narrow down...
...signaling systems, yard traffic and shunting, Sommerfeldt catenary,
and station architecture (esp. stations from 1920-70).
In process: a new modular layout, track planning and drawing benchwork.
Email anytime or chat live: https://discord.gg/jAEKyTWQPQ
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