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Offline IBtrain  
#1 Posted : 18 April 2022 05:58:14(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Hello

I’m pretty much a novice when it comes to decoders and the setting of “CVs”.
I have not been able to find much documentations on changing settings within Marklin decoders. So whatever information or tips you may have to share would be helpful. Is there a good website or documentation for adjusting CVs and specifically for Marklin Locs?
(I have a selections of Locs with Delta decoders, the early digital ones with adjustable dials on the decoder board, digital decoders with adjustable “CVs”, mfx decoders and some M4 decoders.)

If what I understand is correct, the Marklin motrola decoders don’t have true CVs but what they call “registers or parameters”, and you do not use the normal DCC ways to set the “registers/CVs”.

From reading the ECoS manual I found two interesting points;

1 There seems to be a difference between the Marklin Motrola decoders and the Marklin M4 and mfx decoders.
The M4 and mfx decoders need to be programed via “graphic method”.
18.2 and 18.5 and 18.8 and 18.8.4
ECos manual 18_2.jpg

2 While using the “graphic method”, Locs with an M4 or mfx decoder need to be on the main track via POM and not on the programing track. This has the benefit of being able to see/hear your changes as one adjusts them, i.e., “live”
ECos manual 18_8.jpg
ECos manual 18_5.jpg


Once the ECoS controller “reads” a new M4 or mfx Loco, it also reads its profile and saves this info in the ECoS controller. Then if I want to change any “registers/CVs” of that Loc I should place it on the main track and only change these via the “graphic method”. But in the manual of the Loc it includes the CV Parameters for the “CVs” that can be changed.

This is from the Marklin 37105 manual, page 24.
CV parameters.jpg


I have not been able to find a list of what all these Motor, Drive and sound settings adjust.
Drive settings 1.jpgDrive settings 2.jpgDrive settings 3.jpg

Motor settings.jpgSound 1.jpgSound 2.jpg


Yes some are obvious but others are not, i.e., what are the regulation parameters for under the motor settings? It would also be helpful to understand how to best set these settings, for example Sound Modus 1 and Sound Modus 2 seem to adjust the “chugging” sound of the steam engine as it speeds up, how should I adjust them to get a result that I am looking for? Forward trim and Reverse Trim, I believe they slow down or increase the overall speed setting, what is the best way to use them, It makes sense to use the Reverse Trim to have the general speed slower while going backwards, but why the forward trim? It would be good to understand what all these setting are for and how to adjust them.


Lastly, if a Marklin M4/or mfx Loc runs and all the function work and some of the parameters can be adjusted but others not is the decoder broken?
My 37105 runs and the sounds work, but it runs real slow and I can't seem to increase it's speed but I can adjust the sound volume.
Any suggestions on how to increase the speed again?

Thanks,
Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Offline ocram63_uk  
#2 Posted : 18 April 2022 07:44:22(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 582
Location: England, Suffolk
Changing 'CV's on Marklin decoders is done via another UI access page. You have to 'edit' the loco you are running and you do it from the selected throttle. Under the speed dial there is a wrench to click, a popup menu appears, select 'edit' and there are three tabs to chose from, one of them but I don't recall atm as away from the Ecos, allows to reset the param of the engine while it is running. I think it is the third tab to the right. All the params are graphically represented and no CVs to insert, just sliders to play with. Some changes are almost immediate, some others require a few moments to be 'accepted'. HTH
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ocram63_uk
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 18 April 2022 11:51:33(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,553
I recommended you to set your locomotive with only MM protocol first and your digital system setting at MM too.
Put your locomotive on the programming track.
Start change the value what you want to set your locomotive in the CV adress.
You can also do this by choice protocol on the programming track.
With Märklin CS3 you have direct access by change your locomotive when you use mfx protocol.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline IBtrain  
#4 Posted : 18 April 2022 19:37:06(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
Changing 'CV's on Marklin decoders is done via another UI access page. You have to 'edit' the loco you are running and you do it from the selected throttle. Under the speed dial there is a wrench to click, a popup menu appears, select 'edit' and there are three tabs to chose from, one of them but I don't recall atm as away from the Ecos, allows to reset the param of the engine while it is running. I think it is the third tab to the right. All the params are graphically represented and no CVs to insert, just sliders to play with. Some changes are almost immediate, some others require a few moments to be 'accepted'. HTH


Yes this is what I have found to be true so far.
Thanks,
Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Offline IBtrain  
#5 Posted : 18 April 2022 19:42:46(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I recommended you to set your locomotive with only MM protocol first and your digital system setting at MM too.
Put your locomotive on the programming track.
Start change the value what you want to set your locomotive in the CV adress.
You can also do this by choice protocol on the programming track.
With Märklin CS3 you have direct access by change your locomotive when you use mfx protocol.


Hi Goofy
I think I'm missing your point.
From the images that I posted, the ECos manual says to do the programing on the mains.
I'm not able to spend more money on a CS3 just to program Loks.

Thanks,
Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by IBtrain
Online pederbc  
#6 Posted : 18 April 2022 22:47:57(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi Kai,

Just remember, programming on the ”mains” is only working on DCC and Mfx(M4). You can of course also program Motorola on the mains, but you will then program all the loks on the mains responding to Motorola.

Br, Peder
Offline IBtrain  
#7 Posted : 18 April 2022 23:30:48(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kai,

Just remember, programming on the ”mains” is only working on DCC and Mfx(M4). You can of course also program Motorola on the mains, but you will then program all the loks on the mains responding to Motorola.

Br, Peder



Thanks Peder.
I knew I had to be careful using POM, but still don't fully understand when Locs can be unintentionally affected.
If I am programming a Mfx/M4 Loc on main (POM) and there are Motorola Locs on the main tracks, will the Motorola Locs be safe?
I would rather just program the M4 on programing track (safest, IMHOConfused ) but the ECoS manual says it must be POM.

Kai

Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Online pederbc  
#8 Posted : 18 April 2022 23:52:03(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
I’m not sure where it says that you have to use POM. I have had the ECoS for more than 10 years and I can assure you that you can do all programming on the programming track! Doing it on the mains is very useful in that you can program the lok while it is running, for instance, setting the min and max speeds, strengths of lights etc.

So if you want to be safe, use the programming track.

Peder
Offline IBtrain  
#9 Posted : 19 April 2022 00:04:58(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: pederbc Go to Quoted Post
I’m not sure where it says that you have to use POM. I have had the ECoS for more than 10 years and I can assure you that you can do all programming on the programming track! Doing it on the mains is very useful in that you can program the lok while it is running, for instance, setting the min and max speeds, strengths of lights etc.

So if you want to be safe, use the programming track.

Peder


Hi Peder

Here is the part of the manual where I read that it must be do via POM.
ECos manual 18_8_5.jpg

It states that it is automatically preset and can not be changed.

I'll need to re read the chapter.
You seem to have some experience with programming Marklin Locs, can you tell me what the "Regulation Parameters" are that I posted at the beginning of this post?
Is there a list? Or any how to tips?

Thanks,ThumpUp

Kai


Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Online pederbc  
#10 Posted : 19 April 2022 08:43:50(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
1. The manual hasn’t been updated for a couple of years.
2. I may be wrong about the POM restriction on Mfx. I have to check…
3. I would assume that the motor parameters are set correctly by Märklin. So don’t mess with them.
4. Normally I only adjust min/max speed, acc/ret timing and sound volume.

I will check the POM function…

Peder
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by pederbc
Offline nzrailfan  
#11 Posted : 10 June 2022 20:35:22(UTC)
nzrailfan

New Zealand   
Joined: 07/06/2022(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Otago, Dunedin
Yes the ECOS manual will tell you that you can program MFX Locomotives, speaking from experience I can tell you this is not always the case (other than some basic settings on some models). Whilst I do rate the ECOS I would only recommend it for DCC protocol, if you want to have full programming capability over your MFX locomotives then CS3 is the best option or the Marklin decoder tool with retrofit Marklin decoders, however I have found that some newer models (from Marklin) have not been programmable (other than basic settings) until the latest updates are installed on the CS3, which is a frustrating disappointment to be honest and surely should be sorted from the release of that model right from the get go.
Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 11 June 2022 07:37:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,553
In fact you cannot use PoM with the MM protocol.
You have to use programming track to change value via CV adresses.
With DCC and mfx/mfx+ and M4 you can use direct access on the main (depends CV adress support PoM).
I have never ever seen a decoder with MM protocol do have PoM.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline IBtrain  
#13 Posted : 14 June 2022 04:55:24(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: nzrailfan Go to Quoted Post
Yes the ECOS manual will tell you that you can program MFX Locomotives, speaking from experience I can tell you this is not always the case (other than some basic settings on some models). Whilst I do rate the ECOS I would only recommend it for DCC protocol, if you want to have full programming capability over your MFX locomotives then CS3 is the best option or the Marklin decoder tool with retrofit Marklin decoders, however I have found that some newer models (from Marklin) have not been programmable (other than basic settings) until the latest updates are installed on the CS3, which is a frustrating disappointment to be honest and surely should be sorted from the release of that model right from the get go.



Thanks NZrailfan for the comments.
Yes, I have only found a few basic settings to adjust on the M4 decoders. At this time that seems to be enough for me, the speed settings, volume and adjusting a few individual sounds. I don't think that I'll be purchasing a CS3 just to get more programming capabilities of the decoders.


I'm still trying to figure out the "motor settings", how they influence the drive characteristics, would you have any input on this?
Motor settings.jpg
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by IBtrain
Offline IBtrain  
#14 Posted : 14 June 2022 04:58:15(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
In fact you cannot use PoM with the MM protocol.
You have to use programming track to change value via CV adresses.
With DCC and mfx/mfx+ and M4 you can use direct access on the main (depends CV adress support PoM).
I have never ever seen a decoder with MM protocol do have PoM.


Thanks Goofy
I have noticed that too, that the older MM decoders need to be on the programing track for any changes.

Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 14 June 2022 09:03:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,568
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: IBtrain Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I have only found a few basic settings to adjust on the M4 decoders.
I think you will find many more settings in the ECoS when you dig a bit deeper.
You can also select a speed curve for the motor, edit the function mapping, and more.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline nzrailfan  
#16 Posted : 15 June 2022 02:53:27(UTC)
nzrailfan

New Zealand   
Joined: 07/06/2022(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Otago, Dunedin
Sorry but not really , yes you can go into that screen and will it actually alter anything ? In my experience most probably not, you might get lucky on some models and there is no harm in trying. Maybe they have fixed some of the issues with updates since I owned one (over two years ago now). I have had issues even with the CS3 not programming a new Marklin model until the latest updates are installed. Generally speaking that screen is already adjusted correctly by the decoder from new or if it's put into a recalibration mode. If it is running fine I would not adjust these at all. Good luck.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 15 June 2022 07:32:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,568
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: nzrailfan Go to Quoted Post
Sorry but not really, yes you can go into that screen and will it actually alter anything?
You can change what F7 does. You can change the brightness of the headlights. You can change many other things.
What is missing for you?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline IBtrain  
#18 Posted : 16 June 2022 04:22:59(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nzrailfan Go to Quoted Post
Sorry but not really, yes you can go into that screen and will it actually alter anything?
You can change what F7 does. You can change the brightness of the headlights. You can change many other things.
What is missing for you?




Hi Tom

I did find the speed curve and it does adjust on some of the newer Loks.
What is F7?
How do I change the brightness of the headlights? That I haven't found.

Do you know what the sliders do under Motor settings; Reg ref, Reg Parameter K and I, and Reg influence?

Thanks,
Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 16 June 2022 18:23:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,568
Location: DE-NW
This is the screen for the function mapping.
UserPostedImage
There is a row for each function key. The "+" buttons in the headline allow to select the intensity of the outputs (e.g. the brightness of lamps).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline IBtrain  
#20 Posted : 17 June 2022 03:39:54(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
This is the screen for the function mapping.
UserPostedImage
There is a row for each function key. The "+" buttons in the headline allow to select the intensity of the outputs (e.g. the brightness of lamps).



Thanks Tom that's great to know.ThumpUp
I'll take a look at that.


Kai
Marklin K-track, Ecos 50200, RocRail
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