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Esu wagon on Trix C-Track - Will it work on Trix C-Track ?
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2022 00:11:33(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
Hi guys,

I currently have a Marklin C-track layout, recently bought a Esu tank wagon. It derails on turnouts, so I will buy the recommended Esu Ac Wheels which hopefully solves the problem. But I was wondering if I had a Trix layout, will it derailed as well ?
From what I know it`s the same track as Marklin C-track but without the knobs in the middle. So with the factory DC wheels on Trix C-track will still derails? Thanks in advance for responses, this is my collection so far.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2022 00:37:45(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Welcome to the forum.
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
From what I know it`s the same track as Marklin C-track but without the knobs in the middle.
No. The rails have a different height, a different material and the guarding rails have different positions.
Same name, same track bed, but otherwise all important parameters are different.

Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
So with the factory DC wheels on Trix C-track will still derails?
Most likely not. Different NEM specifications. There should be no issues.
Märklin C track requires a different wheel spacing and wheels with larger flanges will work better.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#3 Posted : 22 February 2022 01:16:06(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
Thank you very much for your responses. I was tricked to believe they`re the same by appearance. I have a Trix wagon that runs flawless on Marklin tracks somehow. Probably too small differences to cause problems between Trix and Marklin.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 February 2022 01:20:16(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
I have a Trix wagon that runs flawless on Marklin tracks somehow.
It is possible to make wheelsets that work on both Trix C track and Märklin C track. In my experience this works with Roco, Trix, and ESU - but I only have ESU coaches, no freight cars.
It does not work with rolling stock from Piko or Liliput and others.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 22 February 2022 01:41:45(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
To give more detail- DC NEM wheel spacing is 14.3mm, marklin is 13.8.

Regauging accordingly with a press has fixed 99% of my historic problems with ease
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2022 01:42:41(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
I have Esu 36210 tank car and not working. I also have 2 tank cars from Roco that works with no problems, and a Piko coach car that derails, I have to change it`s wheels as well. Ah, ok, so the DC wheels are a little bit wider since most of the compatibility problem.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2022 08:12:34(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
To give more detail- DC NEM wheel spacing is 14.3mm, marklin is 13.8.
In my experience an adjustment of 0.2 mm is all it takes to resolve issues with wheelsets from Piko and Liliput while allowing them to still run on Trix C track.
Going the full way to 13.8 mm may be required for M track, but will also prevent the cars from running on Trix C track.
I don't use M track and prefer to maintain compatibility with Trix C track.

The NEM specification is nice, but some trial and error may lead to better results.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2022 12:04:28(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
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Location: Bucharest
I see, thank you. Didn`t though you can change the wheels spacing. I still have a question though, how Esu make locomotives that can run on Marklin tracks and also on Piko tracks for example ? They make something right between 14.3 and 13.8 mm that can run both of them ?
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Offline Copenhagen  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2022 13:19:42(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
13.8 is obsolete. Wheel spacing on Märklin rolling stock in recent times is around 14.2 mm (give or take a tenth of a mm or so). The important thing is the flange size. Some brands that probably mostly aim at the 2-track market usually use wheels with smaller, and more prototypical, flanges.
So if flanges are small and you have problems with derailments changing the spacing will help (you can test it by pushing the car through a turnout turning left or right and see if the gap in the turnout causes the wagon to jump and derail, or be close to a derailment).
Sometimes there are other issues that will make cars derail of course.

If the wheel set has a plastic insert that the axle goes through spacing can be adjusted by pushing (or pulling) ever so slightly (there are special tools for it). If the axle is a plastic tube, a wheel can be pulled off and the axle shortened with a scalpel/hobby knife.
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2022 14:08:14(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
They make something right between 14.3 and 13.8 mm that can run both of them?
Yep.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#11 Posted : 22 February 2022 16:09:13(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
I will buy ac wheels for the cars, since there are only 2 wagons that need replacing wheels, I guess the press it`s more expensive. Thank you guys for your answers, now I understand the differences between Marklin and Trix rail systems.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#12 Posted : 22 February 2022 21:58:09(UTC)
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PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,211
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
I will buy ac wheels for the cars, …


When buying the wagons/coaches, some of the online dealers will change the wheels to “AC” for you gratis, depending on brand.
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#13 Posted : 22 February 2022 22:11:21(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
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Location: Bucharest
Ah, super, didn`t know that. I thought only shops can do that, not online retailers. I will ask on my next order. What do you guys think about Brawa wagons ? They work fine on C-Tracks, they are made and look good ?
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Offline Copenhagen  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2022 00:35:23(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I have several Brawa freight cars. They are fine. It is possible though that the wheel spacing will need to be adjusted - I can't remember if it was necessary.
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2022 01:20:50(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
Thank you, I will try a Brawa wagon as well since they are different to Marklin usual color scheme.
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Offline Copenhagen  
#16 Posted : 23 February 2022 11:35:16(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 375
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
Thank you, I will try a Brawa wagon as well since they are different to Marklin usual color scheme.


I just checked a Brawa 48956 (Danish Hbis car) still sitting in the box, and therefore not being used on my track.
When pushing it trough a turnout leading to the side (left side to be accurate) it clearly derails. Checking the wheels with a calliper the spacing is around 14,6 mm! So it definitely needs adjusting. This doesn't mean that all Brawa items will need adjustment, only that there is a possibility that it will be needed. In comparison stuff from Roco usually never needs adjustment.

It is possible to do it by hand (best wear gloves) and by twisting, pressing and turning you can get the wheels closer together. But it's hard to do with precision. A tool like the one from fohrmann will make it so much easier.

https://www.fohrmann.com...euge/spur-h0-modellbahn/

I have both the Radsatz Richtgerät and the Spurmass Lehre (and also a calliper). With the Lehre I don't go all the way down to 13,8 but I press the wheels just so tight that they can't fit on the 14,3 side but will have a wiggle room on the 13,8 side. The combined prize of the two tools isn't more than a single model car or wagon so it's a good investment.
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#17 Posted : 23 February 2022 14:03:49(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
I saw their video on Youtube, even though I don`t know german I understood how it works. Clever tool, I will buy it for sure at some point. For now I checked with the online retailer if they can replace the Brawa wheels to ac wheels and they can do that free of charge. Solved for now, but in the future I will probably try this press.
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Offline danmarklinman  
#18 Posted : 23 February 2022 21:14:53(UTC)
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danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,379
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys,

I currently have a Marklin C-track layout, recently bought a Esu tank wagon. It derails on turnouts, so I will buy the recommended Esu Ac Wheels which hopefully solves the problem. But I was wondering if I had a Trix layout, will it derailed as well ?
From what I know it`s the same track as Marklin C-track but without the knobs in the middle. So with the factory DC wheels on Trix C-track will still derails? Thanks in advance for responses, this is my collection so far.


I have some ESU bogie tank wagons. I adjusted the DC wheels, they now run without any issues on my Marklin K track, even on 36 radius 👍
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline tabacaru.mvlad  
#19 Posted : 23 February 2022 22:22:06(UTC)
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tabacaru.mvlad

Romania   
Joined: 21/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Bucharest
Mine was running good on R1, the problems were only on the turnouts.
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Offline danmarklinman  
#20 Posted : 24 February 2022 08:47:08(UTC)
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danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,379
Originally Posted by: tabacaru.mvlad Go to Quoted Post
Mine was running good on R1, the problems were only on the turnouts.


Hi, yes it will always be the points. Unless it’s a long coach. But replacing the wheels or adjusting them will help. And removing the metal part of the Marklin couplers will stop the buffers causing derailments. As most manufacturers have slightly lower buffer beams than Marklin. And so they catch on the Marklin couplers on curves?
I’ve just got to amazing lsmodels STVA transporters. They had derailments. But after the couplers we’re changed and the wheels swooped for standard Marklin wheels. They run very well👍
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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