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Offline Fireguy911  
#1 Posted : 02 February 2022 00:17:19(UTC)
Fireguy911


Joined: 05/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
Good day everyone. I have finally retired and unpacked my dad's older Marklin HO collection. I am setting up a good size layout for digital use, using the old digital system from the 1070's (all in mint condition). I admit, I know nothing about programming and setting up these k83 decoders, addresses, etc. to cause switches to open and close. I am looking for a beginner's tutorial. Can someone point me in the right direction please. My dad had it all set up for a short time before he passed away. I inherited it all and kept it all to set it up one day in his memory and because I too love Marklin model railroad. I have had display cases full of Marklin running stock which I now want to see running on my layout. Layout will have 3 elevations, 7 lines running at once. I know the basics of setting up the digital control and program locomotives. I know nothing about programming switches. I am using the original digital system. Thank you for any help.
Offline PJMärklin  
#2 Posted : 02 February 2022 03:55:09(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,080
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Fireguy911 Go to Quoted Post
Good day everyone. I have finally retired and unpacked my dad's older Marklin HO collection. I am setting up a good size layout for digital use, using the old digital system from the 1070's (all in mint condition). I admit, I know nothing about programming and setting up these k83 decoders, addresses, etc. to cause switches to open and close. I am looking for a beginner's tutorial. Can someone point me in the right direction please. My dad had it all set up for a short time before he passed away. I inherited it all and kept it all to set it up one day in his memory and because I too love Marklin model railroad. I have had display cases full of Marklin running stock which I now want to see running on my layout. Layout will have 3 elevations, 7 lines running at once. I know the basics of setting up the digital control and program locomotives. I know nothing about programming switches. I am using the original digital system. Thank you for any help.



Hello,

You may find this useful:

k83-1-combined(1).pdf (614kb) downloaded 49 time(s).
Offline Fireguy911  
#3 Posted : 02 February 2022 19:57:51(UTC)
Fireguy911


Joined: 05/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Canada
Thank you PJMarklin. What I do not understand and is not explained clearly or t all is how to actually set each switch up with the decoders. I do not understand what they mean by "group". I would understand if I saw a video showing the actually installation of these decoders on a layout. The info does not show the very basic info I need so that I understand fully how to set these decoders up for each switches.
Offline PJMärklin  
#4 Posted : 03 February 2022 06:04:07(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,080
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Fireguy911 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you PJMarklin. What I do not understand and is not explained clearly or t all is how to actually set each switch up with the decoders. I do not understand what they mean by "group". I would understand if I saw a video showing the actually installation of these decoders on a layout. The info does not show the very basic info I need so that I understand fully how to set these decoders up for each switches.


Hello again (would be nice to have a name),

The section on k83 (from a Märklin publication) that I posted does presume some basic understanding of electrical
connections to points (aka switches/turnouts).
So, from your reply post I understand it to mean that you want more basic explanation on how to connect the actual
points to the k83 decoders.
I will go through this supplemented by some images and some further connection explanation:

1. The Points Basics

These were designed long ago (way back when God created Märklin) as simple electro-mechanical devices. The more recent designs are fairly similar and work similarly. They have three coloured wires going to the points – yellow (“power”) and two blue (one each to set the two positions of the points, i.e. ahead-green or red-to side.) The blue wires "earth" one of the solenoid windings thus moving the points.

UserPostedImage

Inside the black body (more recently a plug-in black unit) is a solenoid. (two – one for each direction - in more recent units)

UserPostedImage

Power (yellow) goes to the centre tap of the solenoid windings and the ends are connected to one of the blue wires.

UserPostedImage

The points were originally connected to manual points boxes (see image below). They serve to join the appropriate
blue wire to "earth/neutral" (brown wire) by pressing either the green button (points ahead) or the red button
(points to side) . I still have some of my points (those that are rarely used) controlled manually in this manner :

UserPostedImage

In more recent times with C track there is the option of placing the decoder within the points themselves
but of course this requires one decoder for each points :

UserPostedImage


2. k83 input

The k83 just provides the same action but under digital control. Within the k83 are switching circuits/transistors
that switch the points the same as the manual box does, but now under digital command.

The k83 unit has outputs for the sets of wires to four points (a “block” of points on the keyboard).
The image below shows these connections :

UserPostedImage

The“power” and digital control comes by the “active/bahn-power” wire (red) and the “earth/neutral” wire (brown/black) which takes “power” with “super-added digital signal” primarily for power and control for the locomotives. It can also go to ”power” accessories, particularly solenoid accessories such as points (but with some mild loss of “power”) together with their digital control message. These red and brown wires come, depending on the power circuit for a particular area of the layout, either from the 6021 or from one or more boosters (a small layout usually has only the 6021 without any additional boosters).
This can be seen in the image below with the “power” from the 6021 or a booster joining the k83 as circled top left.

UserPostedImage

The “power”/digital message connections from the 6021/booster can be “daisy-chained” onto the next k83 by the plug connections shown by the yellow arrow in the image above.

Within the k83, "power" to each of the connected four points is provided from the yellow outlets.
Not wishing to make this explanation more complex, we note that some folk avoid the mild loss of power from the digital circuit due to the k83 by providing the “power” to each of the points directly from a separate transformer. Another way of doing that is to use a Veissmann 5211 (k83 equivalent) which has the option of inputting “power” for the points solenoids to the 5211 from a separate transformer.

UserPostedImage


3. Connecting the k83s to the Keyboard units

My layout remains in the old digital system of 6021 with connected keyboards and Memory units which
in turn use the keyboard unit to set various routes.

UserPostedImage

I have three keyboard units , denoted 1 (white), 2 (red) and 3 (green) Thus they can control 3 x 16 = 48 points

UserPostedImageUserPostedImageUserPostedImage

Each Keyboard unit has 16 button controls, each a green (points ahead) button and a red (points to side) button. Thus each Keyboard controls four k83s (i.e. four blocks of four points)
Each k83 unit is numbered as a subunit of the particular Keyboard. Thus my No,1 (white) keyboard has blocks 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 and 1-4. Each of the connected k83 units are numbered similarly. This is important when setting the codes for the k83s to respond to the correct buttons on the particular Keyboard units and is the basis of the k83 decoder address index chart that appears last in the pdf I initially provided for you.

UserPostedImage


4. Connecting the points to the k83

Each set of points connect to a k83 like this :

UserPostedImage

On my layout each points unit has a number/colour to denote it.
Thus points controlled by keyboard 1 are nos 1-16 on a white background sign, keyboard 2 nos 1-16 on a
red background, etc. Let us look at points 9, 10, 11, 12 white background :

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

Their wires connect through the baseboard to a k83 unit (see image below) You can see the output plugs for
points 9 and 10 marked on the left of the unit

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

You will note that the k83 is numbered 1 – 3 , i.e. it controls points 9,10,11,12 that constitute the third
“block” of keyboard 1 button controls.

UserPostedImage



I hope this has explained that which you sought, if you would like more information please feel free to PM me.

I apologise to those members of our great forum who have digital control systems far in advance of the old 6021, who are thus not interested in this information and who may have unwittingly committed fair download time on a small device for this post replete with byte - hungry illustrations.

Regards,

PJ
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 03 February 2022 08:08:16(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,363
Location: New Zealand
Well done PJ, that must have taken you a fair bit of time and effort preparing that post and organising the photos.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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