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Is all Fleischmann made in Germany still?
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Offline Bill  
#1 Posted : 21 May 2006 18:48:56(UTC)
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Bill


Joined: 07/11/2001(UTC)
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The subject line has the main question -- my follow-up would be, if they have 100 percent German production, how have they maintain the ability to not build in Asia like other companies?
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Offline hmsfix  
#2 Posted : 21 May 2006 21:13:25(UTC)
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hmsfix


Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,383
Location: Darmstadt,
Hi Bill,

As far as I khow their production is completely here in Germany, mostly in Nürnberg. No chinese locos, same as M* (BTW, I have nothing against chinese locos! biggrin)

Probably they get their digital decoder chips from from far east: Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Philipines, Singapore. Almost 90 % of world semiconductor production is there. Also same as M*.

Hans Martin
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Offline jeehring  
#3 Posted : 21 May 2006 21:16:16(UTC)
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jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
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no,not all
What I've been told last year,They still have a modern production unit in Germany but all current Fleischmann is not done in Germany . Recently they laid 200 people off. From this time they had to deal more with " foreign" subcontractors..
I just repeat what I've been told by a German professionnal. No more précision.
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Offline Munich 1860  
#4 Posted : 22 May 2006 12:15:59(UTC)
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Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
I have heard the same: Fleischmann seems to be in trouble just as the other manufacturers. People have been laid off, production is still mainly in Germany with the exception of the electronic parts. And also it has been told that Mr. Fleischmann had to sell a couple of premises and houses in Nürnberg which had been in the possession of the family in order to keep his factory going.

The sources here are from the Stummi Forum (in German). But I treat those rumors just as I do with those regarding Märklin: read ten rumors, take away the three worst ones, take away the three best ones, leaves me four rumors, of which the core might be true ...

Regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
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Offline Vardex  
#5 Posted : 24 May 2006 00:33:54(UTC)
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Vardex

Netherlands   
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 404
Location: vlaardingen,
The only company that is making a profit right now is piko!

Bart
www.lokpaint.com
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Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 24 May 2006 12:48:38(UTC)
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hxmiesa

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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Vardex
<br />The only company that is making a profit right now is piko!


Are you sure? Where do you have that information from???

I am not saying that it is not so, but I wonder if not Hornby is making a nice profit too? ;-)
-And LGB?
-And Tillig?

And I can also imagine that Mehano is sane, although I personally do not put them up there with the other brands mentioned (just a personal opinion, not based on any factual data ;-)

I wont even ask about the minor companies (i.e. who do NOT offer complete systems. Like f.e. Brawa)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline viragoLDR  
#7 Posted : 24 May 2006 15:13:45(UTC)
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viragoLDR


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
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Pretty sure Kato is doing pretty good as well, same goes for Tomix
- Martijn
(early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b)
(active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese)
(possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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Offline Vardex  
#8 Posted : 24 May 2006 21:05:59(UTC)
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Vardex

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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Vardex
<br />The only company that is making a profit right now is piko!

Bart

I was too general. [V]
I should have said; In HO-range,only PIKO is making a profit.
So this doesn't include LGB etc. I really don't know how they are doing.

Bart
www.lokpaint.com
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Offline SRB  
#9 Posted : 25 May 2006 12:59:22(UTC)
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SRB


Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC)
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Hornby (Electrotren, Rivarossi, Lima etc.) has come with a good financial result.
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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Offline hxmiesa  
#10 Posted : 25 May 2006 15:13:54(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
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Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Vardex
I was too general. [V]
I should have said; In HO-range,only PIKO is making a profit.
So this doesn't include LGB etc. I really don't know how they are doing.


Well, some additional information can be found here;
http://www.vdi-nachricht...k&cat=3&id=28031
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 07 June 2006 00:56:21(UTC)
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steventrain

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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by SRB
<br />Hornby (Electrotren, Rivarossi, Lima etc.) has come with a good financial result.



Yes the hornby profit rise but turnout reduced.

*Pre-tax profits up 8% to £8.2 million (2005: £7.6 million)

*Turnover reduced by 2% to £44.1 million (2005: £45.0 million)
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline SRB  
#12 Posted : 07 June 2006 20:16:27(UTC)
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SRB


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A lot different figures compared to Märklins year result.
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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Offline steventrain  
#13 Posted : 08 June 2006 09:43:42(UTC)
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steventrain

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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,723
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill
<br />The subject line has the main question -- my follow-up would be, if they have 100 percent German production, how have they maintain the ability to not build in Asia like other companies?


I really dont know but still in Germany as present.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Gert-Jan  
#14 Posted : 09 June 2006 09:56:18(UTC)
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Gert-Jan


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:...still in Germany as present.


It looks to me, just like the French car industry did like Peugeot, Citroen joining in one PSA, the German MMR industry should join together also?

Like Trix came to Märklin, perhaps Fleischmann could also benefit from a cooperation on the long term.

Mmm...did Trix really benefit from the merger?

PS: I am convinced that Asian manufactured goods have no quality difference to European or American build. It is all about design, quality control and more or less marketing...
Mosty era III DB.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#15 Posted : 09 June 2006 14:01:47(UTC)
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hxmiesa

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Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Gert-Jan
Mmm...did Trix really benefit from the merger?


Trix was bankrupt and was picked up by Märklin, because of the time and money already invested by Märklin during years of coorporation.

It definetly wasnt a merger of equals...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline SRB  
#16 Posted : 09 June 2006 22:20:18(UTC)
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SRB


Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC)
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Actually it was an acquisition. Trix won on that as they were bankrupt.
IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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Offline steventrain  
#17 Posted : 26 December 2006 12:00:16(UTC)
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steventrain

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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
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Location: United Kingdom
I have brought fleischmann AC digital class 94 tank loc.I have looked under the loco and there is fleischmann marked but 'Made in Germany' was missing.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline JT42CWRDriver  
#18 Posted : 26 December 2006 12:45:18(UTC)
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JT42CWRDriver


Joined: 28/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 136
Location: Newton Abbot, Devon. UK.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hmsfix
<br />Hi Bill,

As far as I khow their production is completely here in Germany, mostly in Nürnberg. No chinese locos, same as M* (BTW, I have nothing against chinese locos! biggrin)

Probably they get their digital decoder chips from from far east: Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Philipines, Singapore. Almost 90 % of world semiconductor production is there. Also same as M*.

Hans Martin



I had three Lenz LS150 point decoders for Christmas. Two have "Made in Germany" on the box, on the third one "Made in Germany" has been crossed out with a black pen and a sticker placed over the top. The sticker reads "Made in China".

Call me old fashioned.....but my next point decoders will be from LDT or Viessmann. I would rather buy stuff made in Europe than China.

Cheers,

Peter.
3 Rail/2 Rail Märklin, Fleischmann, Roco. DCC.
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Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 26 December 2006 17:01:39(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,320
Did you know that chinese workers are actully underpayment in China...?

Truth...!

It was standing so in the massmedia...!

So,quality in China is not always at the top like in Europe or USA.

Goofy
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Davy  
#20 Posted : 26 December 2006 18:04:47(UTC)
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Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by JT42CWRDriver
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hmsfix
<br />Hi Bill,

As far as I khow their production is completely here in Germany, mostly in Nürnberg. No chinese locos, same as M* (BTW, I have nothing against chinese locos! biggrin)

Probably they get their digital decoder chips from from far east: Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Philipines, Singapore. Almost 90 % of world semiconductor production is there. Also same as M*.

Hans Martin



I had three Lenz LS150 point decoders for Christmas. Two have "Made in Germany" on the box, on the third one "Made in Germany" has been crossed out with a black pen and a sticker placed over the top. The sticker reads "Made in China".

Call me old fashioned.....but my next point decoders will be from LDT or Viessmann. I would rather buy stuff made in Europe than China.

Cheers,

Peter.


I feel the same.
wink
M-track with a CS2.
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Offline jonquinn  
#21 Posted : 26 December 2006 19:12:46(UTC)
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jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy
<br />Did you know that chinese workers are actully underpayment in China...?

Truth...!

It was standing so in the massmedia...!

So,quality in China is not always at the top like in Europe or USA.

Goofy

what does pay/salary have to do with product quality in a union or socialist environment? most of the time, very little. there are some top quality items that come from china, as well as junk. what is produced has everything to do with how the product is engineered, quality of input materials, and good process control. There are too many highly paid assembly workers out there that are disgruntled and that goes right into the product they are making.
maybe the chinese workers have a better motivation - make good quality with little waste/rework - or loose their job, their house, or worse. but I don't think the stakes are so high for people over there who work in toy factories.
I have no love at all for socialism/communism, but if china is isolated, they will never come around and allow the freedoms most of the rest of the civilized world enjoys. Some of this just sounds a lot like racism to me. other governments and companies that do business there do need to be careful that products are not dumped below costs, patents are not infringed, and working conditions are OK. The chinese government wants to be the number one economic superpower in the world (and military) - and they are probably OK with it taking 25 or 50 years.
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Offline viragoLDR  
#22 Posted : 26 December 2006 19:12:57(UTC)
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viragoLDR


Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 703
Location: ,
And where do you think all the components inside those LDT or Viessmann decoders are made? They're all from China and Taiwan etc. So are the housing in case of Viessmann.. They're just "assembled in Germany".. This whole "Made in Germany" thing doesn't automatically mean quality either, I have several Marklin trains that I really regret buying, and they're not made in China either..

As for them being underpaid, that's mostly because the western countries abuse the fact that Chinese work harder for less money.

Better prepare yourselves though, China is coming up in the world at a frighteningly fast pace.
- Martijn
(early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b)
(active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese)
(possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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Offline Hemmerich  
#23 Posted : 26 December 2006 21:49:35(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
<br />I have brought fleischmann AC digital class 94 tank loc.I have looked under the loco and there is fleischmann marked but 'Made in Germany' was missing.


Steven, that was changed for the same reason as by Märklin. Cool
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Offline steventrain  
#24 Posted : 28 December 2006 19:01:21(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,723
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Lutz,I have found red coach from the 43929 pack and notice it 'Made in Germany' under red coach.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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