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Offline IBtrain  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2021 20:46:29(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Nanaimo BC
Hi

I am in the process of building a K-track layout.
It will be a digital layout using an Esu Ecos controller and RocRail on Windows.

I am working on the shadow station level and I will have an area for parking some shuttle trains,
trains that can be pulled into the parking and then pushed out and vise versa.

Here within the red polygon is the area of the shadow station that I am planning on have the shuttle trains park.
shuttle parking.jpg

Is there any suggestions or advise on the best setup and wiring practices for doing this?
I was planning on having a sensor (s-88 type) at the entrance to the parking track (Enter sensor for Rocrail) and then one at the end of the track (In sensor for Rocrail).

I want the train to enter the parking track and drive over the enter sensor, come to the in sensor, stop, change direction, and then be ready to drive out.

Any tips and/or suggestions would be appreciated.

Have a great day, BigGrin

Kai

Edited by user 05 December 2021 05:38:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2021 22:32:43(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: IBtrain Go to Quoted Post

I was planning on having a sensor (s-88 type) at the entrance to the parking track (Enter sensor for Rocrail) and then one at the end of the track (In sensor for Rocrail).

That's all wiring you need; Rocrail will do the rest.

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 23 November 2021 00:10:02(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,808
Location: Paris, France
Hi Kai
For garage tracks, using Rocrail you have to decide if you want one sensor or 2 sensors.
My personal choice is to use 2 sensors when the cars / wagons are left in place and only one for a railcar or a complete non breakable train

Here is a video on a railcar garage track for 2 independent railcars one behind each other. One sensor per block


Here is another video where the loco comes to leave the cars in the garage track and then returns to the depot.
In that case you need 2 sensors and 2 blocks (Block 12 and Block 12 Sl) (names are onlyexamples) on the same space. One block (Block 12) has 2 sensors (ENTER and IN) and is virtual.
This block has a slave block (Block 12 Sl) with only ONE sensor (the same as the ENTER of Block 12) but configured on Block 12 Sl as ENTER2IN.
This allows a loco to come and pick the cars (you need a free block for this). So it is the purpose of the slave block which remains free after you left the cars


Of course you may do this on a regular track (access to both directions) and it gives you this


Sorry for my long answer but I am really a big fan of Rocrail and especially automated consist breaking or assembly is really fun.
One last video is a humping yard completely automated using Rocrail


All these videos are 100% automatic. No one is driving anything while I take the video.
If you need more info, please let me know

I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean



My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 23 November 2021 00:41:47(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,808
Location: Paris, France
Hi Martti
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.

I disagree there because when you train enter on one track, it will activate the Enter of another block and, if it is empty, it will trigger a ghost train and stop the operation.
As a general rule, don't share sensors on multiple blocks unless they are related: one is the slave of the other (virtual) one.
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline IBtrain  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2021 08:18:08(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: IBtrain Go to Quoted Post

I was planning on having a sensor (s-88 type) at the entrance to the parking track (Enter sensor for Rocrail) and then one at the end of the track (In sensor for Rocrail).

That's all wiring you need; Rocrail will do the rest.

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.


Hi Martti

Thanks for the confirmation on what I need for sensors in this area.
I could not find much specific info on parking shuttle trains in a shadow station.

I did see the video from Holger on virtual sensors
Virtuelle Rúckmelder
He has made many wonderful videos on Rocrail ThumpUp ThumpUp , and my German is good enough that I can pickup most of it.
That might be an option, but I will install the sensor tracks now while I can and if I don't use them that's ok.

Cheers,
Kai
Offline IBtrain  
#6 Posted : 23 November 2021 08:38:55(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kai
For garage tracks, using Rocrail you have to decide if you want one sensor or 2 sensors.
My personal choice is to use 2 sensors when the cars / wagons are left in place and only one for a railcar or a complete non breakable train

Sorry for my long answer but I am really a big fan of Rocrail and especially automated consist breaking or assembly is really fun.

All these videos are 100% automatic. No one is driving anything while I take the video.
If you need more info, please let me know

I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean
Thanks for your reply and your videos. Great work.ThumpUp

I too am looking forward to the many possibilities with using RocRail.
It seems to be able to do so much, that I don't even know, how much I don't know Confused LOL

That is why I hope to construct the layout in such a way so that if I need a sensor here or there I have placed it in the correct spot.
better to solder extra wires on now and not need them, that trying to do it later.

When I have more questions come up on Rocrail I'll let you know, thanks for offering to help.

Cheers,
Kai

Offline IBtrain  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2021 08:46:25(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Martti
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.

I disagree there because when you train enter on one track, it will activate the Enter of another block and, if it is empty, it will trigger a ghost train and stop the operation.
As a general rule, don't share sensors on multiple blocks unless they are related: one is the slave of the other (virtual) one.
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean
In my reply to Martti I added this link to Holger's video.
Virtuelle Rúckmelder
Here he explains how to use a virtual sensor as enter sensor for multiple tracks, using actions. But it is in German.

I have not tried it and I'm not ready to try it yet.

Cheers,
Kai




Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2021 12:17:20(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,808
Location: Paris, France
Hi Kai
Yes I like Holger's videos (hdw64625 on Youtube). They are very educative and fun and Holger is definitely in education activities.
He helped me with staging blocks.

Re Virtual sensors, I use them for instance on my turntable to transform a 24 position feedback into a 48 one. This is because the TT decoder (DSD2010 of DigitalBahn) delivers those 24 positions and a 24-48 information (I had no other choice).
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#9 Posted : 23 November 2021 22:45:15(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Martti
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.

I disagree there because when you train enter on one track, it will activate the Enter of another block and, if it is empty, it will trigger a ghost train and stop the operation.
As a general rule, don't share sensors on multiple blocks unless they are related: one is the slave of the other (virtual) one.
Cheers
Jean

Hi Jean,

Sharing sensors is indeed no-go, except for this specific case.

The option "Ignore events if not reserved" in Routes tab of Block dialog is specifically provided to make the sharing possible.

Apart from saving a bit of wiring, the benefit of this approach is that coming trains can start slowing down a bit earlier, leading to more graceful stopping.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2021 22:58:01(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: IBtrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Martti
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

If all storage tracks branch from the same track, you can even save some wiring by having all parking tracks share a single enter sensor.

I disagree there because when you train enter on one track, it will activate the Enter of another block and, if it is empty, it will trigger a ghost train and stop the operation.
As a general rule, don't share sensors on multiple blocks unless they are related: one is the slave of the other (virtual) one.
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean
In my reply to Martti I added this link to Holger's video.
Virtuelle Rúckmelder
Here he explains how to use a virtual sensor as enter sensor for multiple tracks, using actions. But it is in German.

I have not tried it and I'm not ready to try it yet.

Cheers,
Kai

Hi Kai,

The "Ignore events if not reserved" option achieves exactly the same thing as the "virtual sensors" of the Youtube video, but without having to set up all those actions. Quite possibly this option was added only after Holger posted his video.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
Offline IBtrain  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2021 23:20:15(UTC)
IBtrain

Canada   
Joined: 25/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Nanaimo BC
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post


The "Ignore events if not reserved" option achieves exactly the same thing as the "virtual sensors" of the Youtube video, but without having to set up all those actions. Quite possibly this option was added only after Holger posted his video.


Hi Martti

Ok I'll have to take a look at that option,
Thanks.

Kai

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by IBtrain
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