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Offline Shay  
#1 Posted : 06 September 2021 01:29:32(UTC)
Shay

United States   
Joined: 06/09/2021(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
Hello! This is my first post here so let me know if I’m doing anything wrong…

I am somewhat new to marklin digital and I would like to have some automated trains run on my layout. I know this is possible with the CS3 but that’s wayyyyy out of my price range(I’m only 16). Are there any other methods that aren’t so expensive? I have some experience with a raspberry pi if that’s at all helpful. I’m up for a challenge…

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 06 September 2021 02:59:54(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Hi Shay, and welcome !

Well, you may be able to do something to provide some partial automation with Arduino/RPI devices. I am thinking you can use them to switch turnouts by hooking them up to a relay and that will switch the current that energizes the solenoids to throw the turnout. Remember to switch the relay off again after about 100ms!

You could also use Arduino driven relays to switch power on and off to isolated parts of track so that each controller you have is only connected to one loco at a time.

Building a decoder for controlling a locomotive is more complex but it could also be done perhaps using a Wemos D1 mini and some MOSFET outputs and use wifi to do the control. You would need to build a small DC power supply that has enough buffer to not reboot if the loco loses contact with the rails, or run it off a battery, or a battery that charges from the track...

There are also Arduino projects that use a CAN bus shield to read and probably also generate DCC signals to control digital locomotives and turnouts.

I have just spent the last couple of months adding the ability to control train signals (and a whole lot more) with ESP8266/Wemos D1 as part of the RemoteSign ESP capabilities and I have not announced anything on that yet, but hope to do so soon.

One day, I may add a CAN bus module to the RemoteSign world so that any RemoteSign event can be triggered by activating any accessory address in a DCC system, but that wont help you yet until you have a DCC controller.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Shay  
#3 Posted : 06 September 2021 03:05:03(UTC)
Shay

United States   
Joined: 06/09/2021(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
Thanks for the reply! I have a decent size collection of analog locos that I am slowly converting to digital. I recently found the software RocRail that I would like to try and use, but as far as I know I would need a CAN Bus system or a CS3. Is there a workaround or am I just going to have to buy a controller? I have a mobile station as of right now
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 06 September 2021 03:59:05(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
My understanding is that the Mobile Station is a digital controller..... but I have never used one and will let others explain more about it...
What sort of decoders have you been installing in the locos?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Shay  
#5 Posted : 06 September 2021 04:02:53(UTC)
Shay

United States   
Joined: 06/09/2021(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
Mfx with sound. Expensive but worth it in my opinion! Due to budgetary restrictions I can only afford around one or two conversions a year though. The mobile station is a digital controller, but it does not have any means of running automations and has no ability to connect to a computer directly.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 06 September 2021 04:16:43(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
ah yes, OK now I understand your needs more. You need a digital controller with an interface that RocRail can talk to...

Personally I think it would be better to put the money into plain DCC decoders (mfX does not provide anything really great in my opinion as they don't do anything actually useful with the bidirectional capabilities, such as provide actual speeds, etc.) Automatic address resolution saves you maybe 5 minutes, once only, if you use the locos on the same layout.

ESU decoders without sound will provide you with lots of speed steps, load regulation and plenty of functions and will cost way less. They also sell the magnets to convert the AC motors to DC at good prices.
Then look at what DCC controllers work with RocRail.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Danlake  
#7 Posted : 06 September 2021 12:19:28(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Welcome to the forum,

Yes have a look here:

https://www.marklin-user...ommand-station--Railuino

And the official website:

https://desktopstation.net/hardware.html

I don’t have experienced myself with the setup but there is quitev@ few videos demonstrating the setup and should be compatible with your locos.

Good luck!

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 06 September 2021 12:24:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Shay Go to Quoted Post
I have a mobile station as of right now


You don't say which model of mobile station. If you have the later version ms2 then there is a European project that connects a PC to the CAN bus. There is a forum thread on it here somewhere (perhaps someone with more search foo then me can find it and post the link).

I don't know if Rocrail will work with it.

Another program to look at is JMRI which will run on almost any operating system (Windows, Linux, Mac etc) that will run Java. It has the ability to do automation as well. If you have the time to put into it this could be interfaced to the project I mention above as an extension to the cs2/3 interface capability already in JMRI.



Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 06 September 2021 14:28:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
Location: Paris, France
Hi Shay and welcome to our forum.
I use Rocrail since 2013 and it is great.
It connect to a wide variety of command centers (30+)
May I suggest, you vist the Rocrail English forum dedicated to command stations https://forum.rocrail.net/viewfo...0f4c468422f5d2256f599ccf
With Rocrail there are a huge number of solutions.
Regarding Arduino, please look here https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=dccpp:dccpp-en
Sorry cannot answer directly as I use a CS3
If you are interested, here is a video of my Rocrail-controlled layout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzgCvLKjq8I

Cheers
Jean
Offline Shay  
#10 Posted : 06 September 2021 15:39:00(UTC)
Shay

United States   
Joined: 06/09/2021(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

You don't say which model of mobile station.


It’s ms2! Sorry I did not specify. I have seen the CAN-Digitalbahn project and as of right now that’s my leading contender. The only problem is that those are hard to acquire in the US, although I have friends still living in Germany that could send it for me. RocRail does work with the system!

Those modules do add up though!

Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post

Personally I think it would be better to put the money into plain DCC decoders.


That’s an interesting proposal! Would those decoders still function on AC or does this require switching the entire system to DC? Would the mfx decoders I already have become obsolete?


Thank you all for your advice! This forum is a lot more active than some other places I’ve tried
Offline DaleSchultz  
#11 Posted : 06 September 2021 17:44:42(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: Shay Go to Quoted Post

That’s an interesting proposal! Would those decoders still function on AC or does this require switching the entire system to DC? Would the mfx decoders I already have become obsolete?


The digital signal produced by all digital signals is not the traditional AC. It is a square wave current that does indeed switch polarity but is not a sine wave. The timing of the oscillations between positive and negative parts encodes the data being transmitted to the decoders and other accessories.

Many digital decoders can handle both traditional sine wave AC as well as the square wave digital.
Some of the older decoders passed pulsed width AC power to the motor of the locomotive, allowing them to work with the AC motors found in Märklin locos.
Later (and better) decoders pass through a DC current to the locomotive motor, and that requires a permanent magnet to replaces the old field coils of the AC motor. This allows load regulation, the decoders measure what is called the back EMF from the motor and can thus tell the actual speed the rotor is turning. This is not possible with an AC motor, so that is why we convert motors to DC.

So the upshot is that in a digital system, you have digital square wave on the rail which comes into a loco decoder. The loco decoder converts that either into a pulse width AC or DC signal that goes into an AC or DC motor.

Don't get confused by people who insist on calling 3-rail trains 'AC' and two rail systems 'DC'. Both can use the same digital signal.

Now there are multiple protocols that exist in the digital current and some of these can even coexist.
The first Märklin decoders had a digital protocol that was based on chips from Motorola. This is known as Motorola format. It had 14 speed steps.
Later Märklin decoders had a new version and that was called Motorola new. It had 27 speed steps.
Delta decoders are digital but are limited to just a few addresses. They are Motorola format.
Then there is DCC which has 126 speed steps. (Much better)
Now there is also mfX which added a feature to resolve loco address conflicts.

Some modern decoders can support multiple protocols, Eg M new, DCC and mfX and analog AC sine wave.

If your mfX decoders also support DCC then all you need is a DCC system and you can convert remaining locos with a DCC decoder and all the decoders will work with a DCC controller.

It is a lot to digest. You may find this page on my layout site useful:
https://cabin-layout.mix...11/computer-control.html








Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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