River6109, it always boils down to money - cost savings, profit margins, etc. While most of us like the heft and weight of metal, plastic allows better detail during the molding process. Beyond that, separately applied details will make the model look great. However separately applied details are labor intensive and thus cost money. And plastic is cheaper. Marklin, as well as some other model train manufacturers produces both entry level as well as high end items. Therefore lack of detail, more plastic and inexpensive electronics are the norm on the entry level items. I buy at both ends of the spectrum, it just depends what catches my eye.

Steve

I hesitate. Yet I suppose I will go ahead and shove my oar in water...Caveat: I have analogue KLVM, Sarrasani Zirkuswelt, Beer Cars, M-track...(I suffer from "Attention-to-Detail Deficit Syndrome")

I think we as modellers and collectors and fans may have to accept some (not all) responsibility. There are many (not me by the way) who relish in exact 1:87 scaling. I know of some who will buy a model, then grind or scrape a number of items off and replace them with exact 1:87 parts, either purchased from a supplier of said parts, or scratch-build parts from raw stock, then repaint...etc...etc...not knocking this at all. It is impressive and Waaaaay beyond my talent or skill. "Back in the day" I believe it was called "Super Detailing" and there may even be some books and manuals available on "How To...". If a model does not come factory-weathered, some will weather it, unless the pre-weathered does not really meet their expectations, then they might weather the weathering. Again, not knocking this, just stating a fact.

So, in response to demands for higher detail and exact scale, Mother M (as well as others) have done what other manufacturers the world over will do: try to make the majority of the customer-base as happy as possible, knowing in their hearts that they will still not please every body every time. And I repeat, I can still admire and wonder at the finely crafted detailed products, I might even . I am just happy being a Märklinst. And my "Sound" comes from loks and cars running on m-track at high=speeds

p. s. Märklin Start-Up has the LEGO compatible building block starter sets and add-ons...so who knows what will be the future?
p. p. s. I agree that one might expect a certain continuity of quality over the range...but I am unsure how to tackle that subject.

I don't complain about the newer models.
Because I don't own any!
Mikey

I think that issues like a decline in tractive power and the use of plastic are getting thrown into the same topic, when it is not the case.
Classic Maerklin models like my 3005 (BR 23), my 3014 (Re 4/4) and my 3000 all have and have had plastic elements from the get go.

I have quite a collection of Swiss models, some from Maerklin, some from Hag, some from Roco and others from more manufacturers.

Yes, it is possible to have a little more detail in a model molded in plastic. Whether it be simply the detail in the molding process or by using finely developed parts for more realism, it brings something new to the hobby.

In this age of cost reduction, the use of standardized parts between different models makes it cheaper for manufacturers to produce models, but it also means that companies often use the same basic mold to create both the AC and DC models and swap out only the parts that are essential to have an AC or a DC model. For Maerklin, this means a Maerklin (AC) and Trix (DC) version. Often, this means that a DC model might have all axles powered while the AC model has only one bogie (two axles or more) powered. I have no problem with this. I do have some concerns about AC models where only one wheel per bogie is equipped with a traction tire. I would prefer that the models be designed so that the AC model has traction tires on at least two driven axles and power collection come from the other bogie. I can understand why they need to limit traction tires for DC power collection though.

I don't understand why we have to give up on the catenary. Having models powered by the pantographs was a very cool feature.
The new models no longer are outfitted for use with pantographs. They say it is to protect the decoder/electronics.
I would like to see this option kept for those who desire to use the catenary. I would like to see the selection of power supply be designed in such a way that the model does not have to be opened to change from track to catenary. Surely this can be done with a micro switch on the underside.

There is too much one step forward, two steps back IMHO. For example, the new Re 4/4II models have a middle mounted motor with additional powered axles, yet, as I mentioned above, the model has only one traction tire per bogie and the newly redesigned bogies have coupling shafts which extend farther than the original model. It cancels out any benefit.

One thing that I want to see go away is the idea of having discussions or conversations included on sound decoders.
1) You cannot hear a discussion from outside a train
2) Announcements should be for when the train is in the station. "Gleis 4, Einfaht des Zueges" would play before the train arrives. "Gleis 4, Schnellzug nach..." would be much better.
3) When the loco is a modern electric (GTO/IGBT), please use sounds that sound real. Using a generic e-lok sound is as irritating as using diesel sounds for a steam engine.

and one final gripe. When I look back at my Maerklin 3050 or any of my original generation Hag loks. the light channel was milled to magnify and focus the light so that the headlights created a beam in front of the train. Newer models just have a plastic piece which no longer yields a beam, but merely diffused light at best. This was special and has been left behind.

I also must state that I have a few models with cab lighting and I must state that under no circumstances should the interior cab lights be brighter than the high beams on the locomotive.

Rant over

Mike C

If a plasticized Maerklin loco is going for 400-600 EUR, the difference with a 500-700 EUR Hag lok is not too much.

We have not enjoyed any significant amount of "cost reduction" being passed on to the customer.
What used to be a 400DM Lok 20 years ago (200 EUR) is today a 400 EUR model.

To get smooth motion and acceleration from a cardan drive motor, it needs less resistance than a classic motor to gear drive, where the wheels would start turning as soon as power was applied to the track. If you start a cardan too quickly, you can damage the shaft or the socket. Reducing the weight reduces the load on the drive.

I find it amusing that instead of going to the DC standard motor with cardan drive, that Maerklin could not have adapted it's original motors and ended up releasing models that were as quiet and as smooth runners as Hag models (for example).

I don't think that plastic requires any additional electronics. The two are separate issues.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 23 March 2021 04:54:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I don't understand why we have to give up on the catenary. Having models powered by the pantographs was a very cool feature.
The new models no longer are outfitted for use with pantographs. They say it is to protect the decoder/electronics.
I would like to see this option kept for those who desire to use the catenary. I would like to see the selection of power supply be designed in such a way that the model does not have to be opened to change from track to catenary. Surely this can be done with a micro switch on the underside.

I agree, the Piko electric locos I've bought have no electrical contact from the pantogrphs and its not only that, the pantographs mounting unit is made of plastic, others to have a pantograph with all metal and all you need is connect a wire to the screw within the housing.
It is absolutely nonsense to suggest the reason there is no pantograph connection to protect the decoder, I've had locos running from the overhead system for over 20 years and never had a decoder failure., changing the subject slightly, Piko locos: to change the rubber tyres you have to take the housing off, you have to disassembly the bogies, take the bogie apart to change the rubber tyres (crazy).

Plastic locomotives makes too much noise than metal loco. Catenary are no longer need to use because digital make contact on the track to the trains.

Modern Märklin locos have a (thin) metal body, but plastic gears and plastic axles. Not much noise with the new wormdrive design. Look e.g. at the TRAXX and ER 20 models.

Much air inside. They could be a lot heavier with more metal inside.

Just for the record, your 37473 started out life as a Trix model. It was released the same year as Maerklin's 34/3734 and 34/37341 after having been designed at Trix' Nürnberg factory.

It is not where the model comes from, but rather how it is designed.
The 3323/3328 Re 4/4IV was a disaster as a model in terms of design, even though it probably is up there in terms of metal construction.
The lack of detail was below that of today's Hobby Traxx.

If you put the effort into the development, you are going to get a better model.
I think that if the team puts too much emphasis and looks and not enough on function, the model might underperform once it is released.
They need to do more testing with prototypes rather than just a simple test once the production models are assembled.

Regards

Mike C

Good morning John and fellow modellers,

If I may say the good old days are always with us and we are a very fortunate bunch of happy go luckily modellers. We have everything you could every dream of just waiting to be purchased from our sources, be it the local hobby store or from a on line store many miles away. I do agree with your view as to the options of having a sound or soundless locomotive. I for one like sound and all the bells but after some time on my layout I turn it off because it takes the peace and quite away from my enjoyment of running trains. We do live in a time where we are blessed to have so many distinguished model train manufacturers making what we are after. I for one prefer Märklin for the sole pleasure of it being Märklin as it brings me back to the good old days.

When I comes to details I prefer simplicity over rivet counting, metal over plastic. The days of bulletproof design is long gone and now they are adding too many features is here. I like to keep it like the old days, hence having a good running locomotive with lights, simple and effective in my option. Times change but in the end it’s still the locomotion of the locomotive we’re after. The only difference is now you’re forced to put down a substantial amount of money for a toy train and that’s what wrong with today.

My Märklin good old days only started in 2012. Let the good times roll!

It wasn’t so long ago (2004) when Rapido Trains Inc. launched their first Canadian models and the best way to describe them is;

Beautiful, admirable, adorable, alluring, angelic, appealing, beauteous, bewitching, captivating, charming, classy, comely, cute, dazzling, delicate, delightful, divine, elegant, enthralling, enticing, excellent, exquisite, fair, fascinating, fetching, fine, foxy, good-looking, gorgeous, graceful, grand, handsome, ideal.

BUT Like your shop keeper said and oh do I love what you have written;

"The more they put on, the more can fall off!"

No. Under normal conditions Märklin loco's pulling is quite good.
(Traction tires recent and clean, track clean)
My point was that the DL800 with more than 1 kg and 3 powered boggies had less traction power than.. to illustrate that not always recent Märklin designs are worse than old ones (far from it IMO)
Cheers
Jean

My main concern with the new items is the availability of obtainable repair parts. With the items from the 60's etc you can still find about everything you need to get one back up and running. With the new items, if you have something break or wear out, it can be much more difficult of near impossible to find parts. Also, if you break some of the small fine details, you have to get a complete detail parts package to replace the one part. And heaven forbid you don't know the part number!

I sometimes get the idea that the new stuff is bought mostly by collectors who never even run them.

Manufacturers have to increase profits year on year. Same with all types of business. They don’t always manage but that is the target. Hence more plastic than metal. Other than locos I notice a considerable increase in price of coaches. These are just toys where the manufacturer tries to model closely on the original.
Many coaches are now sold complete with lighting with no option thus increasing the cost and profitability. Also some with decoders.
Plastic is cheap even if increasing now in price and is easy to model.
Many now just buy Marklin as collectors and the models are rarely if ever run and detail is all that is important.
The hobby has done well over the past year because of the virus but in years to come will decline and models will be made with cheaper materials.
Meanwhile I just enjoy and accept what is available which in the main is satisfactory,

Or Lematech, the Swiss watch of locomotives.