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Offline Uwe  
#1 Posted : 18 March 2021 02:02:05(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Hello, can anyone provide guidance as to where on a locomotive's decoder the wire from a current conducting coupler should be connected? I have a 36244 steam locomotive and the 43185 and 43195 coaches. I'd like to be able to use and control the coaches' lighting. Thanks.
Uwe
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 18 March 2021 02:48:32(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I am not sure whether this would require that both red and brown leads be connected from the decoder outputs to a two pole current conducting coupler or whether it is possible to connect just the red lead between a function output to the coupler and use the rails for the return. I know that my 43384/43866 TEE Helvetia and 43308/09 EC Tiziano coach sets both have restaurant coaches which can control the lights in the rest of the consist from the decoder with only the Maerklin current conducting couplers.

I don't recall seeing a wiring diagram showing how each of those coaches was wired to allow for the return to be connected to the decoder.

If you find a set/loco that offers current conducting power from the engine, perhaps there is a diagram in the instruction manual.

Regards

Mike C
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Uwe
Offline Uwe  
#3 Posted : 18 March 2021 02:55:03(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Here's a picture of the decoder.IMG_0237.jpeg
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 18 March 2021 02:58:10(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Wouldn't you normally use AUX1 or AUX2 output on a decoder to connect to your coach lights?

Which return wire was used would depend on whether the lights in the coaches were isolated from ground. Iif they are isolated you would use the corresponding return wire (orange for Marklin decoders). This would also assume that there are two poles of connections all the way down the length of the train.

Of course in an existing loco you would need to make sure you had all the correct wires identified because they don't always match the proper standards.
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Offline Uwe  
#5 Posted : 18 March 2021 03:04:54(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Wouldn't you normally use AUX1 or AUX2 output on a decoder to connect to your coach lights? Thanks. I would do that but I don't see anything labeled as such on the decoder.

Which return wire was used would depend on whether the lights in the coaches were isolated from ground. Iif they are isolated you would use the corresponding return wire (orange for Marklin decoders). This would also assume that there are two poles of connections all the way down the length of the train.

Of course in an existing loco you would need to make sure you had all the correct wires identified because they don't always match the proper standards.


Offline ktsolias  
#6 Posted : 18 March 2021 09:53:47(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
The best way to do that with the Märklin one pole current contacting couplers is the follow:

1. Find space to put a micro relay (ESU has one), Find a free AUX

2. Connect to the coil of the relay (see the instructions of the specific unit) to any from AUX1 - AUX4 is available (On decoders with amplified AUX3 - AUX4 (Marklin mSD3 or mLD3, ESU MKL) and of course the U+ (Orange wire in Marlkin or BLUE in NEM)

3. Connect a wire from the B (RED) (Pick-up shoe) to the one pole on the switch of the relay and the other pole of the switch to the Coupler.

4. Map the AUXx to a Function Button and leave all the other parameters to default (Dimmer, Both directions, switching function etc)

5. In each wagon you need a ground (rail) contact spring, and the LED strip (Marklin, ESU, etc or self made)

6. In this way you can connect as many wagons you like without to care about decoder overload etc.

The other way is to use 2 pole connecting couplers (from MARKLIN, or other) and connect the AUXx wire and a U+ (orange) to the coupler)

Be careful: 1. Polarity, 2. the maximum output of the AUX usually 250mA

I always use the first solution

Here is a plan of a similar conversion

Lighting circuit for M 42999.docx (431kb) downloaded 46 time(s).

Regards

Costas
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Offline bph  
#7 Posted : 18 March 2021 11:38:56(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Hi
A nice solution is to use a Photorelay, eg TLP172A (max 500mA)

This is the solution Märklin uses in their locomotives that are fitted with this option from the factory.

The advantages are that it's still dimmable through the decoder, and its "flicker-free" (some led boards are not dimmable)

I have done this on several locomotives and have described it here:
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t45809-Marklin-39052-BR-05-AUX-3-and-current-conducting-coupler

for me, conventional relays like the ESU one, are a thing of the past.
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Offline Uwe  
#8 Posted : 18 March 2021 22:13:22(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Thanks to all. To ktsolias and bph: Do I really need to install a relay if my coaches already have factory installed LED lighting? Also, how do I go about mapping an AUXx to a function button? Can I do that with the MS2?

Uwe
Offline bph  
#9 Posted : 18 March 2021 23:39:03(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: Uwe Go to Quoted Post
Thanks to all. To ktsolias and bph: Do I really need to install a relay if my coaches already have factory installed LED lighting? Also, how do I go about mapping an AUXx to a function button? Can I do that with the MS2?

Uwe


you don't need a relay if the current draw is below the decoder max rating, but note that some factory-installed led solutions have a high start up peak load. eg 43141 is such a set, I measured a short peak at just above 4 A on that set. And depending on the led light, you might see some flicker when powered directly from the decoder.
Offline ktsolias  
#10 Posted : 18 March 2021 23:50:53(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Hi

If you have already installed factory lights you definitely need a relay or an optocoupler.

To connect directly is not a good idea and you need 2 pin CC couplers (Very expensive from Marklin).

In your loco the AUX1 is already used for the smoke generator,
You can use any of the AUX2-4.
But there are no wires connected!!! not soldering pads either as I remember,
So you have to connect the function wire to de corresponding pin of the decoder socket on the main PCB....
Not an easy job.
The finding of the correct pin is quite difficult and you must know well the 21 MTC socket configuration
The soldering there is really difficult and needs to much experience. In case of mistake bad thinks can be happen to the decoder or the PCB.

You can do the mapping with MS2 but a CS3 is better

May be is better to leave thinks as they are.

As I can understand you don't know exactly how the electronics are working with LED lights or with decoder either.
Better to give the job to somebody with experience in conversions of Märklin locos

Costas
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Offline Uwe  
#11 Posted : 19 March 2021 02:25:13(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
I've wielded a soldering iron for most of my life. I think I can do just fine if I only had a circuit diagram. Märklin's documentation leaves a lot to be desired. That's why I'm here.
Offline bph  
#12 Posted : 19 March 2021 10:08:39(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
You will probably find aux 2/3 on the A9 and A10 pads
but double check with a meter.
you can find a description for 36243 on moba-hgh.de and it seems to be the same board, but be careful the site is not always accurate.

I suggest that you solder the couplings to aux 3 if you are not planning on not using a relay. that way you are spreading the load on two different chips. but max loads still apply.
Offline ktsolias  
#13 Posted : 19 March 2021 10:29:22(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
I checked it in mine BR 24

The Pad A9 is for AUX2 (PIN 14 On the 21MTC)
the Pad A10 is for AUX3 (PIN 13 On the 21MTC)
THe A6 is for U+ (PIN 16 On the 21MTC)

But as from my experience there are small variations check those pads with a multi meter

Costas

Offline Uwe  
#14 Posted : 20 March 2021 02:13:12(UTC)
Uwe

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: California, Culver City
Thanks ktsolias and mph. Much appreciated. I will use a relay just to be safe.
Uwe
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