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Offline Hics  
#1 Posted : 16 March 2021 16:44:58(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 158
Location: England, St Ives
Hi guys.
Yesterday I discovered a tiny problem with my MS2's. I have 2 sets (2 MS2 + 2 railbox). Both are at the same version 3.55 and the railbox as well. But as I set up a locos on first railbox, this MS2 doesn't show them on second railbox. The list is empty. And if I add a loco on 2nd railbox, it is not shown on railbox 1. Looks like each locos list is attached to each railbox. How is that?
Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 16 March 2021 17:59:42(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 749
Location: Michigan, Troy
The MS2 track box has 2 ms2 jacks, so why are you using 2 boxes? That may be your trouble, unless one or both need uodating. The track box updates for me after CS3 updates if there was one for the MS2 as well with it.
Also, one box may be the slave, so you'd need to load the loco. from the first to the second ms2, as with a CS3. Does the screen sho no Loc. on the second MS2?
Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 16 March 2021 18:19:01(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,213
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
How are you plugging in the MS2 units into the 2 track boxes?
If you have both MS2's plugged into one track box, one becomes the master and the other the slave (I think), so it could be the one that has the set up loco in its memory may be becoming the slave when you move it to the other trackbox, and thus it sees the loco list of the master. (my guess as I only have on MS2/Trackbox pair).
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Hics  
#4 Posted : 16 March 2021 19:09:16(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 158
Location: England, St Ives
ok, one more time
I have 2 track boxes. First is plugged to the layout, second to rolling road. I set up a loco on a MS2 and serviced it on a rolling road. Then I moved to a layout. I took this MS2 and a loco and plugged it to track box on a layout (2nd track box). And to my surprise loco was not shown on MS2 list with this track box (list was empty). Then I set up different loco while beeing plugged to this track box. And it was added to a list. Then I took this MS2 to rolling road track box again and on a list was a loco which was added on a rolling road before, not the one from the layout. Soo it looks like MS2 shows only this loco which was added with specific track box only.
I have second MS2 which was storred in a box in a loft. I got there, took it, tested it and it is the same story. How bizzare?
Why is that?
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 16 March 2021 19:37:39(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,154
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Hics Go to Quoted Post
ok, one more time
I have 2 track boxes. First is plugged to the layout, second to rolling road. I set up a loco on a MS2 and serviced it on a rolling road. Then I moved to a layout. I took this MS2 and a loco and plugged it to track box on a layout (2nd track box). And to my surprise loco was not shown on MS2 list with this track box (list was empty). Then I set up different loco while beeing plugged to this track box. And it was added to a list. Then I took this MS2 to rolling road track box again and on a list was a loco which was added on a rolling road before, not the one from the layout. Soo it looks like MS2 shows only this loco which was added with specific track box only.
I have second MS2 which was storred in a box in a loft. I got there, took it, tested it and it is the same story. How bizzare?
Why is that?


But did the trackbox connected to the layout already have another ms2 plugged in?

If that was the case, then I bet the ms2 you were NOT transferring between the track boxes has a lower serial number than the ms2 you used on the rolling road.

The ms2 with the lowest serial number is always the master device and holds the loco data base when there are multiple ms2s plugged into a given track box. so if you want to do things the way you have been then use the other ms2 at the rolling road.

Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 16 March 2021 21:18:11(UTC)
Minok

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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,213
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
That is an interesting design Märklin created there then. It does appear that the loco database stores the track box ID with the locomotive data then. Presumably they expect a use case of one track box per layout, and not swapping MS units between track boxes. A MS setting option to make the database trackbox agnostic would be nice to have for that use case. Though I wonder what percent of users are in that use case.

Märklin is expecting you take your MS to your friends layout which has their locos and plug into it when not on your own home trackbox , as the basis for the software architecture they Implemented.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Hics  
#7 Posted : 16 March 2021 21:21:01(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 158
Location: England, St Ives
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
But did the trackbox connected to the layout already have another ms2 plugged in?

It has not. Good thinking but not.
Any more ideas?
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 16 March 2021 22:50:54(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,428
Only one boxes allowed to connect to the track and maximum two MS2 connect to the box.
Did you set MS2 as master and slave?
Did you also upgrade the boxes to handle with the latest version 3.55 ( Trix MS2 version 3.121.)?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 16 March 2021 23:19:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,154
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Only one boxes allowed to connect to the track and maximum two MS2 connect to the box.

He has explained that only one track box is connected to the track. The other track box is connected to a rolling road stand.
Also it is possible to connect up to 10 ms2s to a single track box by using a pair of 60122 "MS2 Hub" to connect them to the track box.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Did you set MS2 as master and slave?

There is no setting, this is done automatically by the ms2 serial numbers, with the lowest serial number automatically becoming the master.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

Did you also upgrade the boxes to handle with the latest version 3.55 ( Trix MS2 version 3.121.)?

I am not sure this is directly relevant to the problem at hand, but i would certainly recommend it be done.


Offline Hics  
#10 Posted : 17 March 2021 00:06:57(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 158
Location: England, St Ives
Both MS2 are 3.55 and both track boxs are 1.41.
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 24 March 2021 03:54:12(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,188
Location: Montreal, QC
The locomotive list is stored in the MS2 and not in the track box, so when you unplug that unit and plug another MS2 in it's place, that MS2 is not going to have any knowledge of any information that was stored in the other one, unless they are both plugged in and one is selected as master and the second as slave.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 24 March 2021 11:09:17(UTC)
marklinist5999

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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 749
Location: Michigan, Troy
I am still a bit in the grey about all this. Is the track box an interface bus? How does it store any data, does it?
I know the MS2 gets power from it, but Directly from power supply. When connected to a CS, it gets power differently.
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 24 March 2021 11:32:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,202
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
How does it store any data, does it?
It stores its firmware in non-volatile memory.
It creates the track signal, so it stores all loco address, speed and function settings in volatile memory.
It could store a loco list in non-volatile memory, but AFAIK it does not do this.

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I know the MS2 gets power from it, but Directly from power supply.
The MS2 gets the power from the trackbox, not directly from the power supply.

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
When connected to a CS, it gets power differently.
Then it is the same: the power comes from the CS, not directly from the power supply.

Funny side note: After shutting down the CS2, the MS2 can still work with the trackbox inside the CS2.





Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 24 March 2021 11:47:23(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 749
Location: Michigan, Troy
Ok, thanks for explaining. So the MS2 doesn't power off with a CS2, like when I shutdown my CS3? I interesting.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 24 March 2021 18:09:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,154
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Funny side note: After shutting down the CS2, the MS2 can still work with the trackbox inside the CS2.


Oh, so the ms2 drives the full format TFP - one wonders if it drives every booster on the layout while in this mode ... RollEyes
Offline Bones  
#16 Posted : 15 May 2021 12:24:53(UTC)
Bones

Australia   
Joined: 15/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 88
Location: Queensland
Just out of curiosity I thought in the Marklin MS2 instruction manual it said you can only ever have 1 track box connected to the track and this could only have 2 MS2's connected to it
one being the mater and one being the slave

So how can you have 2 track boxes connected
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Offline Minok  
#17 Posted : 15 May 2021 19:20:12(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,213
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Bones Go to Quoted Post
Just out of curiosity I thought in the Marklin MS2 instruction manual it said you can only ever have 1 track box connected to the track and this could only have 2 MS2's connected to it
one being the mater and one being the slave

So how can you have 2 track boxes connected


See post 4 of this thread.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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