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Question Retrofitting the mSD3 to the Krokodile 39562 - Fitting the Sound decoder to Krokodile 2010 model
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Offline kesh  
#1 Posted : 13 February 2021 11:37:44(UTC)
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kesh

India   
Joined: 06/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Delhi NCR
Retrofitting the mSD3 to the Krokodile 39562

I have the sound Decoder 60977 as well as the Programming stick 60971. I tried to fit the decoder to the Crocodile 39562 which I purchased in 2010. On removing the cover of the 39562 I find that there already is a 21pin baseplate on which the decoder can be plugged in. I programmed the decoder with an existing Project "Ce 68III Krokodile" from the Marklin Server and additionally as per the booklet that came with the decoder I had already changed the Motor type to the soft drive sine motor while programming. I plugged the decoder to the 21 pin slot on the locomotive. On the Track the CS3Plus read the decoder with the motor and sound functions as an Mfx locomotive. On the CS3 i went into Edit /configuration and for CV -/7 i changed the first value 3 to 77 leaving all the other values the same. Unfortunately nothing happened. The locomotive refused to calibrate itself. The only function working was the light with both front and rear lights coming on simultaneously.

Do i need to change the basic 21 pin base on the loco with the newer one or is there something Im not doing right?

Would be grateful for your help

Sanjiv
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 13 February 2021 18:13:53(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi Saniiv
Here is the little I know. I have installed quite a number of mSD2 and mSD3 decoders but never on a SDS (SoftDriveSinus) motor equipped loco.
  • I think the 60677 (mSD3 with 21MTC connection) is the proper one for retrofitting.
  • The retrofit can only be successful if the motherboard of your loco (containing the SDS drivers and feedback) is fully functional (The decoder does not drive directly the SDS motor)
  • CV52 (Motor type) must be set to 1
  • CV51 must be set to 0 or 24 (Not sure which one to pick)
  • CV56 (Motor regulation) must be set to 0
  • I suggest you program the decoder using MFX with your CS3
  • Make also sure that during the sound programming, the CV 52 and CV 56 have stiil the values above.


You wrote "The locomotive refused to calibrate itself"
I don't know about a self calibration procedure on mSD3. May be you mean self registration?
You cant change the MFX address.
PS you could program directly your decoder using the CS3
Cheers
Jean
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Offline Donb  
#3 Posted : 13 February 2021 19:39:11(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi,

After you write the value 77 into CV 7, you need to turn the throttle control a little bit and that will initiate the calibration process.
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
CS3, ( Commander is now retired) , C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 15 February 2021 10:15:33(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
After you write the value 77 into CV 7, you need to turn the throttle control a little bit and that will initiate the calibration process.
Which probably won't do any good for locos with a C Sine motor.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kesh  
#5 Posted : 15 February 2021 11:38:55(UTC)
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kesh

India   
Joined: 06/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Delhi NCR
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Saniiv
Here is the little I know. I have installed quite a number of mSD2 and mSD3 decoders but never on a SDS (SoftDriveSinus) motor equipped loco.
  • I think the 60677 (mSD3 with 21MTC connection) is the proper one for retrofitting.
  • The retrofit can only be successful if the motherboard of your loco (containing the SDS drivers and feedback) is fully functional (The decoder does not drive directly the SDS motor)
  • CV52 (Motor type) must be set to 1
  • CV51 must be set to 0 or 24 (Not sure which one to pick)
  • CV56 (Motor regulation) must be set to 0
  • I suggest you program the decoder using MFX with your CS3
  • Make also sure that during the sound programming, the CV 52 and CV 56 have stiil the values above.


You wrote "The locomotive refused to calibrate itself"
I don't know about a self calibration procedure on mSD3. May be you mean self registration?
The loco registered itself on the cs3 after the decoder was programmed. Self calibration was explained as calibrating the motor.

You cant change the MFX address.
PS you could program directly your decoder using the CS3
Cheers
Jean


Thank you very much. A couple of further questions
1. How is it possible to program the decoder using MFX with the CS3-
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Offline kesh  
#6 Posted : 15 February 2021 11:40:49(UTC)
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kesh

India   
Joined: 06/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Delhi NCR
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
After you write the value 77 into CV 7, you need to turn the throttle control a little bit and that will initiate the calibration process.
Which probably won't do any good for locos with a C Sine motor.



Hi Tom not too clear about what you said. Could you elaborate a bit.

Thanks
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Offline xxup  
#7 Posted : 15 February 2021 11:49:57(UTC)
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xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
After you write the value 77 into CV 7, you need to turn the throttle control a little bit and that will initiate the calibration process.
Which probably won't do any good for locos with a C Sine motor.



But it is not C-sine it is high-efficiency Softdrive Sine propulsion.. Does this make a difference?
Adrian
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 15 February 2021 12:04:44(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
But it is not C-sine it is high-efficiency Softdrive Sine propulsion.. Does this make a difference?
The name C Sine was burnt and they came up with the name SoftDrive Sine. Technically no real difference.

Originally Posted by: kesh Go to Quoted Post
Hi Tom not too clear about what you said. Could you elaborate a bit.
For regular DC motors the decoder does the load regulation using Back EMF. Automatic adjustment measures the motor during a test run to adjust Back EMF parameters.
With C Sine motors load regulation must be disabled in the decoder. Maybe automatic adjustment will not detect this special case correctly.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 15 February 2021 12:26:10(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi Sanjiv
Originally Posted by: kesh Go to Quoted Post
Thank you very much. A couple of further questions
1. How is it possible to program the decoder using MFX with the CS3-

First you need to pull up the red marker to see locos
Second you select the 'modify loco"

CS3-Lok Liste-bearbeiten.png

Third: you select the loco to modify

CS3-Lok bearbeiten.png

Four: your select the right-most tab Configuration

Five: you wait for all CVs to be read and you have this

LokEdit EinrichtenKonfigurierenMotor.png

When the CV is not on your list, then add it by pushing the +key
Like one of my predecessor wrote with a SDS motor there is no regulation so only specify the parameters I gave earlier.
The self calibration procedure is useless in this case
Cheers
Jean


My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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