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Offline biswasg  
#1 Posted : 03 January 2021 10:21:18(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
I currently have a CS1. I am now contemplating expanding my layout with the new digital colour signals and wondering whether I should also upgrade to the CS3?
Apart from the cost of the CS1, what else will I have to mandatorily need to change/upgrade? My CS1 runs of the 60052 60Volt power transformer. Will this transformer work wth the CS3 or will I need to buy the 60061 power supply?
Gautam
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 03 January 2021 10:55:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,932
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
The CS3 cannot be used with transformers because it requires DC. You will need a new power supply.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2021 11:05:33(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Will this transformer work wth the CS3 or will I need to buy the 60061 power supply?


No, the CS3 requires either a 60061 or 60101 power supply. Older transformers will not work with the CS3.

Actually the 60061 is no longer available. It has been replaced by

60041 DE/EU Plug
60042 UK Plug
60043 AU/NZ Plug
60045 US Plug
60046 JP Plug
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Offline biswasg  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2021 11:21:31(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Will this transformer work with the CS3 or will I need to buy the 60061 power supply?


No, the CS3 requires either a 60061 or 60101 power supply. Older transformers will not work with the CS3.



Thank you Bigdaddynz and Tom for your clear answer that I will need the newer power supply. Do you think the older 60052 could still have a role in the layout or should I try to dispose of the? I have two of them.

Gautam
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2021 11:30:31(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
You can still use the 60052 to power lighting and accessory circuits.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2021 14:51:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,595
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
If you get a second hand cs2 on ebay or somewhere you can use the cs1 as a secondary pair of throttles by connecting the cs1 and cs2 together through the ethernet. I don't think you can do this with the cs3.

If you use a cs2 then your existing transformer can power that, and you can use a wall wart power supply such as from an ms1 to power the cs1 as you cannot use that to drive the track, so it only needs minimal power.

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Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 03 January 2021 19:09:22(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,028
Location: Scotland
I would buy a CS3 Plus and sell the CS1. Depending on the size of the layout the CS3 should do all you want and you can always add an MS later if needed.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline biswasg  
#8 Posted : 03 January 2021 19:11:47(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I would buy a CS3 Plus and sell the CS1. Depending on the size of the layout the CS3 should do all you want and you can always add an MS later if needed.

Thanks David. But why you recommend CS3+ which is about CHF 135 (approx $ 150) more expensive than CS3? Is it for the S88 link? I have the older S88- 60880 S88 which has a different type of connection than offered in CS+.
Gautam
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 03 January 2021 22:35:50(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,392
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I would buy a CS3 Plus and sell the CS1. Depending on the size of the layout the CS3 should do all you want and you can always add an MS later if needed.

Thanks David. But why you recommend CS3+ which is about CHF 135 (approx $ 150) more expensive than CS3? Is it for the S88 link? I have the older S88- 60880 S88 which has a different type of connection than offered in CS+.


It is important to understand what is going here , and match them to your requirements.

The "Marklin" solution is to use a LinkS88 = L88 = 60883 to connect legacy "6-pin" S88's = 6088,60880 to a CS3 or CS3+. Because the 60883 provides 3 bus connectors, one (designated Bus#3) is the directly compatible 6 pin connector.

However, Marklin do leave the door open, by way of the wiring documentation that comes with the S88-RJ45 (60881,60882) for you to construct your own appropriate interface cable FROM the CS3+'s RJ45 socket to the "6 pin" S88 plug.
COMMENT: The 60884 adapter cable is similar physically but not the same operationally, it is for connecting a NEW RJ45 S88 to an older 6-pin controller..


Personally, I am on record as saying that I believe the "CS3 (non-plus) and a L88 + PS for L88" combination has more to offer than a CS3+.
I acknowledge that adding in the need to address a S88 sensor port with a prefix L88# and Bus# may seem like extra work. On the other hand it offers for more flexibility in the future.


So
- if you go the Marklin way and use a L88 (with power supply) regardless, the CS3 (rather than a CS3+) is all that you really need
- if you are happy to wire up your own adapter cable (RJ45->6pin) then the CS3+ is a more straight forward solution and no L88 is needed

The later point may cover a small amount of future expansion. where as the former option offers better future proofing IMHO









Peter
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Offline bph  
#10 Posted : 03 January 2021 23:27:34(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 263
If you plan to get boosters, its possible to use 60052, with the latest bosters. (ref Marklin Technik-Tipp Nr. 331)
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Offline David Dewar  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2021 23:38:53(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,028
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I would buy a CS3 Plus and sell the CS1. Depending on the size of the layout the CS3 should do all you want and you can always add an MS later if needed.

Thanks David. But why you recommend CS3+ which is about CHF 135 (approx $ 150) more expensive than CS3? Is it for the S88 link? I have the older S88- 60880 S88 which has a different type of connection than offered in CS+.


There is hardly any price difference between the two when you add in the link etc. Also I prefer less parts to be connected.
When purchasing model rail I never mind paying for a controller and power pack which in the past with my CS2 and transformer lasted for more than 10 years with no problems.
Model rail for me is about running trains and the CS3 Plus gives everything I need.


Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline biswasg  
#12 Posted : 04 January 2021 00:19:26(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I would buy a CS3 Plus and sell the CS1. Depending on the size of the layout the CS3 should do all you want and you can always add an MS later if needed.

Thanks David. But why you recommend CS3+ which is about CHF 135 (approx $ 150) more expensive than CS3? Is it for the S88 link? I have the older S88- 60880 S88 which has a different type of connection than offered in CS+.


There is hardly any price difference between the two when you add in the link etc. Also I prefer less parts to be connected.
When purchasing model rail I never mind paying for a controller and power pack which in the past with my CS2 and transformer lasted for more than 10 years with no problems.
Model rail for me is about running trains and the CS3 Plus gives everything I need.


Convincing. Thanks.

Gautam
Offline Roland  
#13 Posted : 04 January 2021 00:27:32(UTC)
Roland

Canada   
Joined: 09/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Toronto, Canada
The CS3+ has an s88 Link built-in but only a single bus. If you have a larger layout and don't want to connect all your s88 modules on a single bus, you might prefer a regular CS3 and a stand-alone s88 Link which has 3 s88 buses.

If you're going with an LDT HSI-88 (which allows you to connect your s88 modules to your PC bypassing the central station) then you again probably just want the regular CS3.

I have a CS3+ and later realized I probably would have been better off just getting the regular CS3.
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Offline biswasg  
#14 Posted : 04 January 2021 07:32:07(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Roland Go to Quoted Post
The CS3+ has an s88 Link built-in but only a single bus. If you have a larger layout and don't want to connect all your s88 modules on a single bus, you might prefer a regular CS3 and a stand-alone s88 Link which has 3 s88 buses.

I have a CS3+ and later realized I probably would have been better off just getting the regular CS3.


Thank you, Roland.

From all the inputs in the thread, I understand the following:

1.CS3+ has one inbuilt S88 bus to connect all the s88 modules to it without any additional item (any limitation to the number of S88 modules?). I can even connect the legacy 60880 S88 to the CS+ by modifying a cable
2. To connect s88 modules to a CS, I will need the s88 link and its power supply. The s88 link will allow up to 3 s88 buses.
3. If I bought the CS+ now, and in the future needed to have more than one s88 bus, I can still do it by adding the s88 link to the CS+

Is my understanding correct?

Gautam
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 04 January 2021 08:43:54(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
The CS3+ also has galvanic isolation (which the CS3 does not have) and it also has the CAN bus input socket to allow it to run as a slave controller (CS3 doesn't have this).

This article explains a lot of the differences

https://railway.zone/pos...d-central-station-3-plus
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Offline phils2um  
#16 Posted : 05 January 2021 02:37:46(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
I (and you should) have a question that needs to be answered about the CS3+ s88 bus. What voltage is on the RJ-45 power wire (s88 RJ-45 pin 6, green/white wire)?. The Märklin literature I looked at shows +5V/+12V. It can't be both and so far as I am aware it is not selectable in the CS3+. I believe the CS3+ is designed to work with the newer s88 modules using +12V for power. I'm guessing that using +12V to power legacy s88 modules will let out the magic smoke! The Märlkin upgrade literature show a S88 Link (60883) module is required by both the CS3+ and the CS3 for operation of legacy ribbon cable s88 modules that need +5V for power.

Were I in your situation, I'd go with the CS3. Why pay the extra $, €, or SFr for a single s88 bus you will not use? You will need a S88 Link module in any case. It gives you two of the newer RJ-45 +12V s88 buses along with the +5V legacy ribbon cable s88 bus you need for your old modules. By the way, S88 Link manual says each bus can have up to 31 s88 modules connected. i don't know what the length limits are for the RJ-45 interconnection cables.
Phil S.
Offline clapcott  
#17 Posted : 05 January 2021 04:07:23(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,392
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
What voltage is on the RJ-45 power wire (s88 RJ-45 pin 6, green/white wire)?.

12 v

Quote:
I'm guessing that using +12V to power legacy s88 modules will let out the magic smoke!

No, Marklin have posted (in the now hard to find FAQs/TIPs) that "their" s88s (6088 , 60881) support 12V

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-322.pdf

"The 6088 and 60880 decoders can also with a signal level of 12 V. on the feedback module 60883 operate.
But we can't guarantee that systems of others Manufacturer this higher signal level easily cope with.
Use in in these cases as a precaution these products only use the 5 V level"
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#18 Posted : 05 January 2021 04:13:27(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,392
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The CS3+ also has galvanic isolation (which the CS3 does not have)

Red herring


Quote:
... and it also has the CAN bus input socket to allow it to run as a slave controller (CS3 doesn't have this).

It is the CS3 (or other upstream CS3+) that would be the slave.

And this is only of concern IF / WHEN you are looking to add a second CS, at which time the point may apply.

The upside is that there is an extra CAN bus device port so you can add another device before needing to fork out for a Terminal (60125/60145)
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#19 Posted : 05 January 2021 04:17:24(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,392
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Roland Go to Quoted Post
The CS3+ has an s88 Link built-in ....

I challenge this as glib insult to the S88 Link which ...
- in addition to 2 extra ports , offers a physical connection for direct legacy connection
- has its own power source, thus reducing that load from the host CS
- includes 16 sensor ports
- - these may be configured for 16 base ports (aka 60881) OR as a keyboard matric offering 64 contacts.

Peter
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#20 Posted : 05 January 2021 08:48:18(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The CS3+ also has galvanic isolation (which the CS3 does not have)

Red herring


That depends on the context of the discussion. The OP asked about whether he could use a 60052 transformer to power a CS3 or whether a 60061 was required. That was answered in the first couple of replies, so every post since then has been a red herring in terms of the original question, including the discussion of CS3 v's CS3+, although the OP did subsequently ask for information about the differences between the 2 CS3 devices..

Galvanic isolation or lack thereof is not relevant to discussions around S88 link devices and CS3 / S88 in general, but it is relevant if the OP has multiple booster sections or intends to have multiple booster sections. and wants to use CS3's as a booster. It's OK to use one CS3 as a booster with multiple 60174 / 60175 boosters sharing a common ground, but you can't have multiple CS3's used as boosters because of the lack of galvanic isolation. You can only use the CS3+ in this instance where there are more than one CS3 device being used as a booster.

Why Marklin puts galvanic isolation in one device and not the other bewilders me, and you could extend that conversation to the question of why multiple CS3's!?

Edited by user 05 January 2021 21:04:56(UTC)  | Reason: BD's rumpty spelling!

Offline hxmiesa  
#21 Posted : 05 January 2021 11:02:54(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,150
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
"The 6088 and 60880 decoders can also with a signal level of 12 V. on the feedback module 60883 operate.
But we can't guarantee that systems of others Manufacturer this higher signal level easily cope with.
Use in in these cases as a precaution these products only use the 5 V level"

In the ways of the force to be trained too old you are!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline biswasg  
#22 Posted : 05 January 2021 12:05:35(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Dear friends,
Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions. They were very valuable.
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation and the inbuilt S88.
I do realize that there is some difference of opinion over the choice between the two controllers. Sometimes, when there is too much choice, it can be confusing, especially, when one is not a clear upgrade of the other but each has its pros and cons. I am still early in this hobby and would like to explore it further to increase my skills.
Now to get rid of the CS1 and the 60052 transformers.

Gautam
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bph
Offline biswasg  
#23 Posted : 05 January 2021 12:53:07(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Dear friends,
Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions. They were very valuable.
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation and the inbuilt S88.
I do realize that there is some difference of opinion over the choice between the two controllers. Sometimes, when there is too much choice, it can be confusing, especially, when one is not a clear upgrade of the other but each has its pros and cons. I am still early in this hobby and would like to explore it further to increase my skills.
Now to get rid of the CS1 and the 60052 transformers.

Gautam
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Offline David Dewar  
#24 Posted : 05 January 2021 14:57:27(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,028
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Dear friends,
Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions. They were very valuable.
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation and the inbuilt S88.
I do realize that there is some difference of opinion over the choice between the two controllers. Sometimes, when there is too much choice, it can be confusing, especially, when one is not a clear upgrade of the other but each has its pros and cons. I am still early in this hobby and would like to explore it further to increase my skills.
Now to get rid of the CS1 and the 60052 transformers.



Good decision and I am sure you will be happy with the CS3 plus. Sometimes too much information can only be confusing but go slowly with your new controller and all will be well.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#25 Posted : 05 January 2021 21:02:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation and the inbuilt S88.


So my comment about galvanic isolation wasn't a 'red herring' afterall!

Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
I have finally ordered the CS+......


I'm thinking of doing the same, although I may also need a S88 Link because I have Viessmann 5211 S88 sensors on my layout.

Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Sometimes, when there is too much choice, it can be confusing, especially, when one is not a clear upgrade of the other but each has its pros and cons.


I'm not sure that Marklin has helped very much in this regard, to me it would have been better to have one all singing all dancing controller like the CS2 is (although there are differing variants of that device...).

Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
Now to get rid of the CS1 and the 60052 transformers.


It's a pity you don't already have a CS2 as you could have used the CS1 as a remote controller to the CS2, and the CS2 as a remote controller to the CS3. In that roundabout daisy chain way the CS1 becomes a remote controller to the CS3. That's what I'm planning for my CS1's.

Feel free to ask for any info you need, that's what this forum is for.
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Offline kgsjoqvist  
#26 Posted : 05 January 2021 21:20:25(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 747
Location: Täby
In my case I bought a CS3, not the CS3+. I didn’t have any s88 modules from before, so I would have needed to buy at least one anyway. The price difference between an s88 and L88 is not that big.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Offline biswasg  
#27 Posted : 05 January 2021 21:56:53(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post


Feel free to ask for any info you need, that's what this forum is for.


Thank you and to all others who offered their advice on the subject. The forum has been very useful and I am sure I will get similar help as I build my new layout.
Gautam
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Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 06 January 2021 09:47:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,932
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation [...]
And which advantage do you see in having galvanic isolation?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline biswasg  
#29 Posted : 06 January 2021 10:44:58(UTC)
biswasg

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 214
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biswasg Go to Quoted Post
I have finally ordered the CS+, mainly for the galvanic isolation [...]
And which advantage do you see in having galvanic isolation?



Dear Tom,

Honestly, I do not know, but hoping as my skills and understanding improve and my layout expands, that option will remain available to be used. The immediate advantage was to use the S88 directly and not go through the S88 link route. Also, the cost of CS+ is equivalent to the CS and the S88link.

Having said so, I very much respect the choice of those who prefer the CS over the CS+.
Gautam
Offline Roland  
#30 Posted : 11 January 2021 19:59:31(UTC)
Roland

Canada   
Joined: 09/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roland Go to Quoted Post
The CS3+ has an s88 Link built-in ....

I challenge this as glib insult to the S88 Link which ...
- in addition to 2 extra ports , offers a physical connection for direct legacy connection
- has its own power source, thus reducing that load from the host CS
- includes 16 sensor ports
- - these may be configured for 16 base ports (aka 60881) OR as a keyboard matric offering 64 contacts.


I somehow missed all these replies to this thread. And yes, I should have put quotation marks around s88 Link in my original post, as it's not exactly the same as an external s88 Link.

Offline JohnjeanB  
#31 Posted : 12 January 2021 15:27:22(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,260
Location: Paris, France
Hi Alan & everybody
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
If you get a second hand cs2 on ebay or somewhere you can use the cs1 as a secondary pair of throttles by connecting the cs1 and cs2 together through the ethernet. I don't think you can do this with the cs3.

If you use a cs2 then your existing transformer can power that, and you can use a wall wart power supply such as from an ms1 to power the cs1 as you cannot use that to drive the track, so it only needs minimal power.


Seems that 2nd hand CS2 on ebay.de are pretty expensive compared with 60226 (500 € range when I paid my 60226 including shipment 581€)
Avoid purchasing 60213 and 60214 as they had design problems with (no) galvanic insulation and S88 connections.
My recommendation is to use a 60226 to start with a Link 88 (Only my opinion). 60215 are very good but with age, they freeze during booting (cold start). I have 2 of them dating 2012 but repaired by Märklin (new 60215 mother board)
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline H0  
#32 Posted : 12 January 2021 15:53:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,932
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Avoid purchasing 60213 and 60214 as they had design problems with (no) galvanic insulation and S88 connections.
Märklin is Märklin. Some 60214 are like the 60213 without galvanic insulation and only 2.4 A track power, some 60214 are like the 60215 with galvanic insulation and 5 A track output.
When buying a 60214, make sure you get the stronger version with galvanic insulation if you want it.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline David Dewar  
#33 Posted : 12 January 2021 17:55:00(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,028
Location: Scotland
OP had decided to buy a CS3 Plus so I doubt he will now want a CS2 which will not be new and probably without warranty.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#34 Posted : 12 January 2021 20:35:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
When buying a 60214, make sure you get the stronger version with galvanic insulation if you want it.


i.e. 60214's hardware version should be v4.31 or above to get galvanic isolation and 5 amp output.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#35 Posted : 12 January 2021 21:38:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,595
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Avoid purchasing 60213 and 60214 as they had design problems with (no) galvanic insulation and S88 connections.
My recommendation is to use a 60226 to start with a Link 88 (Only my opinion).


Why recommend a 60226 which doesn't have galvanic isolation while decrying a 60213 or earlier version 60214?
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H0
Offline H0  
#36 Posted : 13 January 2021 10:10:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,932
Location: DE-NW
My CS2 does not have galvanic insulation. To be able to use both boosters without restrictions, I should get a CS3+.

When starting new, the CS3 may be the better option. You can add s88 when you need it - and then you get a full s88 with all ports.

AIUI there is no problem if only one booster on the layout does not have galvanic insulation.

I think it is a bad idea to buy a CS2 for use with the old transformer just to save the money for a new power supply.
But if you can get a CS2 for a good price, why not? If you buy from a professional seller in Germany you even get warranty (dealer warranty only, not Märklin warranty). But better get a power supply for it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#37 Posted : 13 January 2021 21:15:05(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,260
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Why recommend a 60226 which doesn't have galvanic isolation while decrying a 60213 or earlier version 60214?

This is because IT HAS a galvanic separation (confirmed by Märklin) so the cost of a 60226 + Link 88 is less than a 60216 and is more powerfull (more possibilities with a Linl 88)
Cheers
Jean
here is what Märklin answered when I asked before purchasing mine
Note: Also in Stummi forum this incorrect information is widespread

Sehr geehrter Herr Brucy,

vielen Dank für Ihr Schreiben vom 11. September 2020.

Die CS 3 60226 ist galvanisch getrennt, genauso die 60216. Im Moment ist eine Lieferzeit von circa 8 Wochen einzuplanen.
Es sei denn Ihr Händler hat eine CS3 oder CS3 + vorrätig.

Wir hoffen, dass wir Ihnen weiterhelfen konnten.

Bitte bleiben Sie gesund.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Ihr Märklin Kundenberater
Frank Mäder

Gebr. Märklin & Cie. GmbH
Kundenservice
Postfach 960
D-73009 Göppingen
Telefon +49 7161 608222
Telefax +49 7161 608225
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#38 Posted : 14 January 2021 04:34:36(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,604
Location: New Zealand
I've always thought it was daft Marklin having one device with galvanic isolation and another similar device without galvanic isolation.

I find it even more daft that Marklin hasn't tried to publicly change that narrative, given that it may have been Marklin in the first place who pushed that narrative. I've been trying to find where that statement about the 60226 not having galvanic isolation came from - the first reference I can find in the forum is TEEWolf suggesting in the following thread (#20) that he may have read it somewhere but couldn't remember where, then in post #33 having it confirmed by someone posting on Stummi's that they had had confirmation from Marklin (3rd hand, I know...)

https://www.marklin-user.../posts/t36652-CS3-Manual

Translation of the above message.

Dear Mr. Brucy,

Thank you for your letter of September 11, 2020.

The CS 3 60226 is galvanically isolated, as is the 60216. At the moment, please allow approximately 8 weeks for delivery.
Unless your dealer has a CS3 or CS3 + in stock.

We hope that we could help you further.

Please stay healthy.
With best regards

Your Märklin customer consultant
Frank Mäder

So for me that means the only reason for me to get a CS3+ is the fact it has the CAN input connection for it to act as a slave controller.

I will have to get a S88 Link regardless of which controller I get as I have legacy Viessmann 5217 S88 devices, and the galvanic isolation question is now redundant.
Offline H0  
#39 Posted : 14 January 2021 09:35:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,932
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I've always thought it was daft Marklin having one device with galvanic isolation and another similar device without galvanic isolation.
Me too.

Here is a link to a document from the Märklin Magazine:
https://www.maerklin.de/...n_Digital_MM_2016_03.pdf

On page 6 they say that a CS3 is sufficient for owners of a 60215 while a CS3+ was required for owners of a 60213 or 60214. They don't mention galvanic isolation, but if a 60213 requires different treatment from a 60215, then it is valid to assume galvanic isolation is the reason.
"Frank Mayer" from Märklin is listed as author.
Is that the root source of the fake news? I remember faintly seeing other Märklin documents with that separation.

Update: See page 2 here: https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-331.pdf
See page 12 here with reference to hardware version: https://www.maerklin.de/...rklin_Digital_MM_1_2.pdf
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#40 Posted : 14 January 2021 13:17:41(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,260
Location: Paris, France
Hi
For Märklin it has been very painful to develop a Galvanic Insulated output stage for their CS2 and this clearly delayed their Booster for at least 2 years (60173 which arrived with much delay to be immediately removed (exchanged by Märklin against a 60174).

So 2 consequences:
  • Märklin was very loud in claiming Galvanic Insulation for the later part of 60214 and affixed a special sign (a coat of arms with 2 crossing circles). This was at the time clearly a weak point compared with the ECOS and its stronger Boosters
  • later for 60215 and for 60216 and 60226 Märklin did not mention Galvanic insulation as it was implicit. No more sign in the sticker


Also for 60216 and 60226 - this is just a guess here - has probably developed only one motherboard (It cost a fortune to design and certify) for both units with only one additional module (the simplified Link 88) plugged in and a different connector for the CAN BUS input.

Even the bottom side of the CS3 is common to both units (60216 and 60226) with only a cut-out for the 60216 for the RJ45 plug to be accessible
Cheers
Jean
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