Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Rwill  
#1 Posted : 10 October 2020 21:30:00(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 657
Location: England, London
I have raised this topic before and as it happened whilst operating an LGB lok I was either ignored or put on the loopy list. In fact it happens with all registered loks regardless of scale providing they have more than five functions. So my lovely Re6 swiss lok sitting in the siding ready to go. Switch on the lights then switch on F4 the main beam headlights and they come as expected then a second or so later the lok sets off at a low speed (20ish) without touching any thing else. The speedo show the speed and the lok can now be stopped or controlled as wished. The lok goes in the direction it was last set for. So what is "wrong" or what have I unknowingly set up. Its not the end of the world and if the answer contains words like DCC and other technical mysteries I shall simply live with it!
Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 10 October 2020 23:41:34(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,977
Location: Scotland
I presume you have not set up an event. Would it be worth trying another decoder if you have a spare which can control your lights and see if the same happens.
Ooops just read your post again and see it happens with all your locos so clearly not a decoder problem. Maybe reset the CS2 or try another controller if you can borrow an MS2. Does it also happen on the program track which will be free from anything connected to your main layout.
Hopefully somebody with more knowledge than me will be able to help.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 11 October 2020 00:18:38(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I have raised this topic before and as it happened whilst operating an LGB lok I was either ignored or put on the loopy list.

In fact it happens with all registered loks regardless of scale providing they have more than five functions.

- So my lovely Re6 swiss lok sitting in the siding ready to go.
- Switch on the lights then switch on F4
- - the main beam headlights and they come as expected
- - then a second or so later the lok sets off at a low speed (20ish) without touching any thing else.

- The speedo show the speed and the lok can now be stopped or controlled as wished.
- The lok goes in the direction it was last set for.

So what is "wrong" or what have I unknowingly set up.
Its not the end of the world and if the answer contains words like DCC and other technical mysteries I shall simply live with it!


A bit more observational details may help, however I am reminded of the design issue of the early CS2 where turning the right throttle resulted in the Loco menu popping up.. i.e. something in the CS2 causes something else to happen.

So if you could confirm
- What hardware version of the CS2 do you have (and the software version for that matter)
- does the same happen if the left v right throttle/buttns are used?


As to
Quote:
all registered loks regardless of scale providing they have more than five functions.
I would still want to know that it is 100% of these locos and what the CS2 configuration for the locos is


Do you
- have Any memory routes set
- Any locos (as seen for the CS2 have memory functions assigned to function buttons.

Have you (after making a backup) reset the CS2 configuration to a base config and still have the issue.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Rwill  
#4 Posted : 11 October 2020 01:58:47(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 657
Location: England, London
Thank you for your prompt reply:

A few answers:

Hardware version 5:1

Software Version 4.2.9 (0)

Left and right throttles both make it happen

I noticed the issue with My LGB lok and the swiss lok as many of my loks have as function 4 the ABV off which I would rarely use but I have now tried and it applies to them all with over 5 functions

It appears to apply to 100% of these loks which appear to have all been registered by Mfx

Very limited use of the memory routes just a couple set with no "added" element and no loks with memory functions added through the CS2

Your last paragraph sends me into "frightened" mode - reset back to base config -I think I will leave well alone




Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 11 October 2020 06:25:53(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Umm. interesting.
I think you may have something as to the CS2 sending a speed command after the function on.


Actually, have you tried rediscovering the loco after the last CS2 update
i.e.
- Press Stop (to Stop)
- delete the loco
- Press Stop (to Start
- wait for auto registration
- Retest





Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 11 October 2020 06:47:39(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Confirming I am able to experience the same(similar) symptom you describe.

I am not sure when this might have been introduced as, like you I do not play with the ABS much.

As background, "in some crcumstances" the CS2 is resending the speed of the loco after the ABS = ON.
Usually this as expected, however due to the way a speed is changed, this "resent speed" is not the last, but a prior value.

BTW, do you use
= Mobile Station
= LocoCards
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 11 October 2020 07:23:31(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
This may actually be a "feature", ?!

- If you turn F4 ON (ABS disable) ,
- The speed at the time you do it is memorized (Spd#1)

Thus you may alter the speed (Spd#2) while in ABS disable mode (doing your shunting)
HOWEVER should you wish to return to the original speed, press F4 OFF then ON again (no intemediate speed change) and the Spd#1 is recalled

If , between the OFF and On you do play with the speed, the remembered speed is cleared


Notes
- Similar behavior NOT observed on a CS3
- on CS 2 Has been experienced on a non-mfx loco definition (using F4 REGARDLESS of the icon)
To me this indicates a bug more than a feature
- Is NOT observed if the ABS "Weight" icon is assigned to another function

Edited by user 13 October 2020 08:13:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 11 October 2020 12:33:11(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,131
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I have raised this topic before and as it happened whilst operating an LGB lok I was either ignored or put on the loopy list. In fact it happens with all registered loks regardless of scale providing they have more than five functions. So my lovely Re6 swiss lok sitting in the siding ready to go. Switch on the lights then switch on F4 the main beam headlights and they come as expected then a second or so later the lok sets off at a low speed (20ish) without touching any thing else. The speedo show the speed and the lok can now be stopped or controlled as wished. The lok goes in the direction it was last set for. So what is "wrong" or what have I unknowingly set up. Its not the end of the world and if the answer contains words like DCC and other technical mysteries I shall simply live with it!


Hi Rwill and all

I have 2 CS2s (60215) both with the latest software 4.2.9 (0) and I use them a lot since 2012. On my HO 3 rails layout I have only MFX locos 33 of them and most have more than 4 functions some even have more than 16. Only MFX and MM protocols are activated. I never observed such a behavior.

Yes, sometime the digital signal may be distorted (short circuit, capacitor, overload) and cause an unwanted actions but in your case to have a loco "set off at low speed" and the speedo showing the speed is a phenomenon inside the CS2 which may be caused by:

- CS2 hardware problems or need to reload the last version
- forgotten shuttle operation that triggers itself (easy to check on the loco's speedo)
- some command strings in memory activated inadvertently: to test this set all "memories" in manual mode only and see if the behavior disappears.

What is your CS2 source of power? (I use a 60101 100 W switching power supply). In some cases transfos may cause problems (transfer electrical noise on the mains into the secondary circuit).
Just my 2 cents worth
Jean



My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 12 October 2020 09:40:12(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
OK,

The above is a base to work from,
I have regressed to 4.2.0 and did not see the problem (limited testing by confidence is high)
updated to 4.2.8 and the symptom reappeared - and stayed evident when reloaded to 4.2.9

My gut feeling is that this ( the above "feature") is somehow related to the new CS2 layout function for shuttle and fiddle-yard.
I can see how this function could be used to good effect for those wanting to create their own memory sequence with a Stop/Resume or Stop/Reverse/Resume.

HOWEVER I think this is only the function that is involved.
- The symptom is exacerbated if you have locos with the same address
- And possibly further so, if you have your CS2 set to "Start Locomotives Automatically".

I know the description refers to mfx, but these are given a working address within the CS2 as each one is added.
And, without dwelling on another bug, there are issues with the working address being stored on the LocoCard and its usage with a MS2 such that duplicates CAN exist.


My suggestion to start with
- unset the ""Start Locomotives Automatically"" if set
- - reboot and test

- scan all locos for common addresses and remedy.
- - if it helps, you can print off the configuration by accessing the CS2 from a PC with address *.*.*.*/config/lokomotive.cs2
- - in addition to the .address and .mfxid field take note of the .uid and .sid
lokomotive
.name=Re 482 046-0
.richtung=1
.uid=0x18
.adresse=0x18
.typ=mm2_prg
.sid=0x1
.icon=RE 486 503-6 BLS


- un-assign F4 from all locos where F4 is not used for ABS=off - i.e. reassign their function to a different button.
or
- revert to v4.2
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Rwill  
#10 Posted : 12 October 2020 17:27:55(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 657
Location: England, London
I have decided I can live with this "new" feature without any drastic action.

I do have an MS2 updated on the CS2 but rarely used. When plugged into the front of the CS2 it will replicate the "odd" actions described. I do not use loco cards.


You have described and I now concur if I am proceeding round the layout with my swiss lok at some speed and I switch the main beam lights on with F4. If I then stop and later before setting off press F4 the lok will set off on its own accord at that high speed set at the last use.

I am interested that despite there being numerous CS2 user forum members no one has popped in and said - Oh yes now you mention it mine does that too 0r alternately - Thought you should be on the loopy list mine doesn't do that it behaves perfectly

Offline clapcott  
#11 Posted : 13 October 2020 08:12:08(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,358
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
I am interested that despite there being numerous CS2 user forum members no one has popped in and said -
"Oh yes now you mention it mine does that too"
0r alternately -
"Thought you should be on the loopy list mine doesn't do that it behaves perfectly"

Well you could start a poll and see.
I would suggest maybe making the subject more informative/enticing

and, if I may be frank, your "single paragraph" opening post took some working through to tease out.

For my part,
I am aware of locos with "F4 not being ABS" but do not have one.
Do not use F4/ABS=off normally, if ever.
Do not use the auto start
Do not have duplicate addresses

However, something weird happened on the club layout a couple of weeks ago that I would place in the "likely candidate" category.



Peter
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2020, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.308 seconds.