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Offline David Dewar  
#1 Posted : 21 September 2020 17:51:09(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,978
Location: Scotland
Just ordered a Marklin 40500 coach as part of an order with MSL. I see it is a Start UP coach but the price looks good. Has anybody owned a start up coach and are they worth buying. I am not all that interested on detail underneath which I cant see anyway. However thought I would give it a try.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 21 September 2020 18:25:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,817
Location: DE-NW
"Start Up" is the new name of Märklin's Hobby line.

#40500 is one of the older 264/270 mm coaches that were around for decades. I don't think they were simplfied.

There also is a 282 mm line of coaches. I would not mix those two lines in one train.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 21 September 2020 21:14:11(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,978
Location: Scotland
Thanks Tom. I would not mix different scales but just thought for the price it was worth having a look and if OK will get a few more to make a line at what is about half of what I pay for my other coaches. I am stocking up now before we leave the EU and have several locos etc on order as here in the UK Marklin is hopeless and our customs like to charge for delivery after taking VAT.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 21 September 2020 22:48:50(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,894
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello David,
I have the 40500 and it is perfectly adequate for a layout.
I agree with your sentiment about underbody detail.
The set of these in the 405xx series with the control car run very well on my layout.
I really am not bothered by lack of lighting, but it can be added.

The new series of IC coaches offered in 2020 Autumn new items including the 43680 are 28.2cm.
Whereas the 40500 is 27cm, and the 2nd class coach 40501 is slightly shorter at 26.5cm.
Anway at 28.2, 27 and 26.5 cm I am sure you could mix both series without spoiling the effect, because I have a train of 28.2cm cars with one outsider Piko coach at 26cm and it looks OK.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 21 September 2020 23:45:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,366
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hello David,
I have the 40500 and it is perfectly adequate for a layout.
I agree with your sentiment about underbody detail.
I have a set of these in the 405xx series.

The new series of IC coaches offered in 2020 Autumn new items including the 43680 are 28.2cm.
I will have to check the length of 40500, the Maerklin database does not show it.

Kimball


Thats funny, the Marklin page you linked to shows it as a 27cm car ... Confused Confused Confused
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 22 September 2020 01:35:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
I was tempted to get a train of these coaches including 40500 and the matching cab control car, but then the 2020 Fall New Items came along......

But in your case Dave, I don't think you will have any issues with those coaches.

Prototypically I saw these IC coaches being pulled by BR120 (now out of service) and BR101 electric locos when in Germany last year.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 22 September 2020 01:42:24(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,894
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
...

Thats funny, the Marklin page you linked to shows it as a 27cm car ... Confused Confused Confused


Hi Alan,

You are so right, being the English language website.

I usually use the German site, and the length is not shown there. Blink

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#8 Posted : 22 September 2020 02:10:24(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Prototypically I saw these IC coaches being pulled by BR120 (now out of service) and BR101 electric locos when in Germany last year.


Here's a bunch of photos I took at the time....

Don't know if anyone has a model of the gold BR101?

The first photo was taken out of the cab of the ICE3 we were on, somewhere between Frankfurt and Stuttgart. The others were taken at Stuttgart Hbf.

IMG20190909200303.jpg

20190910_204206.jpg

20190913_181908.jpg

20190910_011744.jpg
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Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 22 September 2020 08:01:13(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,066
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Tom. I would not mix different scales but just thought for the price it was worth having a look and if OK will get a few more to make a line at what is about half of what I pay for my other coaches.

The topic about LENGTH is very interessting.
I have a Rheingold in epoch III and one in IV. The III is with Lima/Rivarossi 303mm cars (blue/lilla-beige) and the IV one is red-beige with 270mm Märklin cars. They basically represents the same types of cars, but the different livery makes them different enough to NOT disturb me, when they occasionally cross each other on the layout.
I also have heaps (15 is a heap?) of the newer 282mm cars, and the same goes; There is not anything that bothers the visual impression of having these different length cars running side-by-side.
BUT; As others have already said; I never mix them within the SAME train.
The old-red DSG speise- and schlaf-wagen are only 270mm (or 264mm?), yet Märklin still mix them with their newer 282mm cars. (I suppose these oldtimer cars are in reality slightly shorter then the newer D-zug cars?)

(I would have preferred to have only 303mm cars, but Märklin doesnt make them)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 22 September 2020 22:33:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,366
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Prototypically I saw these IC coaches being pulled by BR120 (now out of service) and BR101 electric locos when in Germany last year.


Here's a bunch of photos I took at the time....

Don't know if anyone has a model of the gold BR101?


Don't know about a gold br101, but the Marklin 160 years anniversary loco that the group of us had our photo taken in front of has pictures around with coaches in the IC livery. I don't think I am going to be able to afford the herbst 2020 NI issue, so thinking of the 40500 series to go with my 160 year anniversary loco.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 22 September 2020 23:24:36(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,366
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I was tempted to get a train of these coaches including 40500 and the matching cab control car, but then the 2020 Fall New Items came along......


Well, the thread stimulated me to look at the relative costs of the two sets.
The 43630 cab Control Car is around twice the price of the 40503 Cab Control Car. Now even allowing that the new one comes with an mfx decoder that can turn the headlights and tail lights off and on, as well as 'high beam' headlights, and control all the lights in the other cars, it is still a hefty price ratio.

But the same problem occurs with the other new cars, they are also around twice the price of the 40500 series ones, but again they come fitted with interior lighting and conducting couplers, so the additional cost of those for the 40500 series cars doesn't exist, but the price ratio is still a bit steep. As well as that you end up with twice the number of 28.5cm coaches, so the train is more than twice as long ... Blink Cool Huh OhMyGod

I think for me the 40500 series will be sufficient, maybe I'll get a second 40500 to make it a little longer ... Woot

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Offline PJMärklin  
#12 Posted : 23 September 2020 07:35:41(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,603
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
... Prototypically I saw these IC coaches being pulled by BR120 (now out of service) and BR101 electric locos when in Germany last year.



Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Well, the thread stimulated me to look at the relative costs of the two sets.
The 43630 cab Control Car is around twice the price of the 40503 Cab Control Car. Now even allowing that the new one comes with an mfx decoder that can turn the headlights and tail lights off and on, as well as 'high beam' headlights, and control all the lights in the other cars, it is still a hefty price ratio.
But the same problem occurs with the other new cars, they are also around twice the price of the 40500 series ones, but again they come fitted with interior lighting and conducting couplers, so the additional cost of those for the 40500 series cars doesn't exist, but the price ratio is still a bit steep. As well as that you end up with twice the number of 28.5cm coaches, so the train is more than twice as long ... Blink Cool Huh OhMyGod
I think for me the 40500 series will be sufficient, maybe I'll get a second 40500 to make it a little longer ... Woot



Hello David and Alan

I first noted earlier trains of this type when in Germany as part of our travels in Europe during June/July 2014 (not the more recent ones you saw last year). I had not noticed them in earlier years (despite them first appearing in Märklin 2003 Blushing )
I noted a consist (pulled by a BR 101) first in Munich :


UserPostedImage


The train caught my eye and later in our journey I bought a set from the Märklin dealer back behind the station in Göppingen (I could not get the complete set from the Märklin Museum Shop!OhMyGod )
Thus I obtained the control cab 43305 (Bimdzf 269.2) and two each of 42272 and 42862. The control cab 40503 (mentioned by Alan) is a Bimdzf 271.0 and the new 43630 somewhat different to the predecessors (as you have noticed) is a Bpmbdzf.

As chance would have it, this same type of consist took us eventually from Koblenz to Frankfurt, much of the journey along the Rhine :


UserPostedImage


On return home I then obtained a DB BR 101.
And here is the cab-forward consist on my layout, being pushed by the BR 101 :


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


So I am quite happy with the set I already have BigGrin .

Regards,

PhilipSmile


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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 23 September 2020 08:44:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
These coaches were produced by Marklin in Blue / White with / Light Blue stripe (4327, 4384, 4281, 4282, 43300), then Red / White / with Pink stripe (4227, 4286, 43301) and then Red / White (42861, 42271, 43303 and there was a boxed set of 4 coaches as well (43302)).

I have trains of all 3 types, and was having some thoughts about getting a set of 40500 IC coaches as well. Then came along these Fall 2020 New Items, so I bit the bullet and have ordered a set of coaches along with the new BR120 (I have a 3153 BR120 in TEE colours and a 315x in dark red but nothing in traffic red). I do have some traffic red BR101's though.

I can understand why some prefer the less expensive coaches, and I wouldn't have been unhappy having a set myself.

Edited by user 23 September 2020 12:20:06(UTC)  | Reason: Added item number for coach set

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 23 September 2020 12:21:18(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
Seen in the Marklin 2005 and 2007 catalogs. Maybe the BR182 Taurus pulled the IC coaches as well.

Capture.JPG

These were the IC coaches Marklin had from 2002 to 2015. The 40500 series coaches were first introduced in 2016.

Capture.JPG
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 23 September 2020 12:25:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,817
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Seen in the Marklin 2005 and 2007 catalogs. Maybe the BR182 Taurus pulled the IC coaches as well.
BR 182 is not "Taurus". BR 182 started as a freight locomotive and was later moved to regional passenger trains. IC trains were never the typical use, although it may have happened on rare occasions.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 23 September 2020 12:37:07(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
Apparently "the ÖBB assigned the protected name Taurus to Class 1016 (and later to the Classes 1116 and 1216); since then all ES 64 U+ series are widely known as 'Taurus' locos"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter

So as far as common use is concerned, I'm right in calling the BR182 a 'Taurus'.

If further proof is needed of the common use of the term...

Capture.JPG
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Offline PJMärklin  
#17 Posted : 23 September 2020 12:55:18(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,603
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Seen in the Marklin 2005 and 2007 catalogs. Maybe the BR182 Taurus pulled the IC coaches as well....



Hi David,

That would seem soThumpUp


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


Regards,

PhilipBigGrin
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Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 23 September 2020 13:49:21(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,978
Location: Scotland
When I started this thread I did not expect so many replies. I am now waiting on the two I ordered but may want more. If I find they are out of stock cos you lot have been buying I will send my one armed hit man to all who purchased. For those who do not remember the one armed hit man he was last seen several years ago on various threads but he is still about going round in circles in his canoe lol.
Can you still get the blue ones as mentioned above.

Must go on to DHL and see where my parcel is now.

PS thanks for all the interesting replies.


Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline PJMärklin  
#19 Posted : 23 September 2020 14:32:45(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,603
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
BR 182 is not "Taurus". BR 182 started as a freight locomotive and was later moved to regional passenger trains. IC trains were never the typical use, although it may have happened on rare occasions.


Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Apparently "the ÖBB assigned the protected name Taurus to Class 1016 (and later to the Classes 1116 and 1216); since then all ES 64 U+ series are widely known as 'Taurus' locos"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroSprinter

So as far as common use is concerned, I'm right in calling the BR182 a 'Taurus'.

If further proof is needed of the common use of the term...




Yes, but in fairness to Tom, in some areas "assigned protected name" may perhaps eclipse "common usage" :


https://www.railcolor.ne...nav=1405000#.X2sx0dZS_UI


http://blog.reynaulds.co...e-siemens-taurus-family/


https://www.trovestar.co...neric/zoom.php?id=145190


For me, I suspect both a "strict definition/assigned protected name" and "common usage" could both be correct as far as model train enthusiasts are concerned!Laugh


(also), I think most folk would agree that this is a magnificent example of "El Toro" (my image, taken July 2015 at Venice Santa Lucia : this loco had just brought us from Vienna) Wub :


UserPostedImage


(I confess Blushing , thereafter I subsequently acquired the Märklin models for the ÖBB coaches consist and the ÖBB Taurus locomotive, out of enthusiasm! - I will spare you the images OhMyGod )


PJ Smile
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#20 Posted : 23 September 2020 22:25:04(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Can you still get the blue ones as mentioned above.


You can still find them as used items on eBay, but not currently in the catalog as new items.
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