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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 24 March 2020 08:56:51(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Some of us are thinking of installing - at least fake - catenary on our layouts, and I have ordered some Sommerfeldt 317 ”Quertragwerke” for the stations on my SBB/BLS inspired layout. However, I will not use catenary wires. I will need a lot of masts on the double track line, and the cost for Sommerfeldt masts will be... high, approx. 6-7 EUR per mast. Ofcourse, they look very nice and are all metal, but on the other hand: Is that really needed, as I will not use wires?

So, on the net I found the Dapol ”OOCAT1” catenary masts, and I purchased a package of 10 pcs at approx. 15 EUR for testing purposes. OK, they are all plastic, but as you can see on the pictures below (not my pictures), IMHO they look ”good enough” compared to the prototype? (A good thing about modelling Swiss railways is that there are a loooot of different catenary prototypes.) At least, I believe they will look better than the Märklin masts, that are too German looking. And it seems as if it’s very easy to install the masts, using wing nuts.

So, what is your opinion on the Dapol masts? And has anyone of you tested the Dapol masts? Blink

5354E3DB-EC31-42E6-8505-9AB08DDF7423.jpeg

1BB34945-D592-44AE-93BB-578EC45CE0B4.jpeg
The Great Krok!
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB/BLS, C and K track, CS2, TrainController Gold V9
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Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 24 March 2020 10:00:38(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,832
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Some of us are thinking of installing - at least fake - catenary on our layouts, and I have ordered some Sommerfeldt 317 ”Quertragwerke” for the stations on my SBB/BLS inspired layout. However, I will not use catenary wires. I will need a lot of masts on the double track line, and the cost for Sommerfeldt masts will be... high, approx. 6-7 EUR per mast. Ofcourse, they look very nice and are all metal, but on the other hand: Is that really needed, as I will not use wires?

So, on the net I found the Dapol ”OOCAT1” catenary masts, and I purchased a package of 10 pcs at approx. 15 EUR for testing purposes. OK, they are all plastic, but as you can see on the pictures below (not my pictures), IMHO they look ”good enough” compared to the prototype? (A good thing about modelling Swiss railways is that there are a loooot of different catenary prototypes.) At least, I believe they will look better than the Märklin masts, that are too German looking. And it seems as if it’s very easy to install the masts, using wing nuts.

So, what is your opinion on the Dapol masts? And has anyone of you tested the Dapol masts? Blink
...


They look really good .
And you are right, the variety of catenary supports along the Swiss RR lines is practically infinite, and sometimes even varies from one suspension to the next .
If you watch video of cabrides in Switzerland , you'll get a feel for what I really mean.

Your suggestion is interesting and since it's not very expensive, I'll give a try....but it will have to wait considering the current lock down

Cheers!

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 24 March 2020 10:44:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
They look good!

Are they rigid enough to hold a strand of thin wire or thread between them, representing the catenary wire? If they are I would consider fitting them on the parts of the track where I don't presently have catenary. The packs of catenary wire that Dapol make for these masts are, in comparison, quite expensive.
https://www.dapol.co.uk/...ssories/ohe-and-catenary

I have Viessmann catenary on some of my track, which is similar to the Marklin newer type but came in a "starter pack" at a more economical cost. However the cost of buying more catenary pieces and masts to complete the job, coupled to some difficulty lining it up, made me reconsider and I never completed the job. Because I don't have all my tracks fitted I run most of my electrics with the pantographs down, pending the completion.

I might use this Dapol catenary to finish the coverage of the layout, but "fix" my loco pantographs so they don't go all the way up and touch the "wire". It's not ideal but looks better than no catenary at all.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 24 March 2020 14:57:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,765
Location: Southwesternmost
A German carpet Bahn Maerklinista uses rubber threads bought in a haberdashery shop as overhead wire. The second photo in post #47 of his Stummiforum thread offers an impressive impression:

https://stummiforum.de/v...09&start=25#p1787709
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Online applor  
#5 Posted : 25 March 2020 06:27:36(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Why no wires? Cost or complexity?

It is said that with H0 scale the wires would be too thin to scale as the reason not to use wires - but there's a big improvement with wires and the pro series are quite thin (0.4/0.5mm) and they don't look out of place by any means.

It's also quite interesting and satisfying designing and building prototypical overhead line equipment for your layout.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 25 March 2020 12:06:26(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,832
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Why no wires? Cost or complexity?

....


Yes , I could say "complexity".
Using the current Märklin or Viessman offering , it is manageable , and with a little care and patience you can obtain a decent results.
Sommerfeldt is really very much designed after the "real thing" and requires lots of precision in the placement of the poles and wires (to respect the zig-zag on the pick ups, and above all avoid "derailment" of the pantographs in curves)
Then the wires need to be put under mechanical tension, which is not always simple to accomplish.
But the Sommerfeldt tensionners are very good.
It is IMHO imperative that the poles carrying the tensionners be supported (e.g; guy-wire) so that they do not tip under tension.

And yes, doing it right require quite some planning , as in the real thing! Wink

Cheers

Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline PeFu  
#7 Posted : 25 March 2020 20:41:52(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Why no wires? Cost or complexity?

....


Yes , I could say "complexity".
Using the current Märklin or Viessman offering , it is manageable , and with a little care and patience you can obtain a decent results.
Sommerfeldt is really very much designed after the "real thing" and requires lots of precision in the placement of the poles and wires (to respect the zig-zag on the pick ups, and above all avoid "derailment" of the pantographs in curves)
Then the wires need to be put under mechanical tension, which is not always simple to accomplish.
But the Sommerfeldt tensionners are very good.
It is IMHO imperative that the poles carrying the tensionners be supported (e.g; guy-wire) so that they do not tip under tension.

And yes, doing it right require quite some planning , as in the real thing! Wink

Cheers

Jacques



I second this. Also, having double-track lines will add further complexity to the layout, as you might want the masts being opposite of each other. This would derive certain challenges, using Sommerfeld standard length wires...

BigGrin
The Great Krok!
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB/BLS, C and K track, CS2, TrainController Gold V9
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Online applor  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2020 00:30:10(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,473
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post

I second this. Also, having double-track lines will add further complexity to the layout, as you might want the masts being opposite of each other. This would derive certain challenges, using Sommerfeld standard length wires...

BigGrin


You bend each wire to the correct length, no challenges - made to fit! The challenge is in the correct design.
Only turnouts get complicated, double track is no more difficult than a single track because it's the same thing done twice.
You also have a level of flexibility/creativity with what pieces you want to use or not - ie. mainline re-tensioners, transformers, feeder sections, single mast or cross span.

Even the old bulky Marklin catenary had adjustable pieces so that the length could be made to fit because you're never going to get a good fit with all fixed length wires.

The manual/catalogue is well documented and has a number of examples too. I can also share my plans.
It is certainly complex and daunting at first but once you learn the design principles it's really not hard and you can always ask me to check/fix your design if you're unsure.

Not saying you have to do it but just don't let the additional work/complexity turn you off. I do not regret it at all and wouldn't have it any other way.
I appreciate that you have so far worked towards a high level of realism which is why I think it would be a great addition to your layout.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline PJMärklin  
#9 Posted : 27 March 2020 05:36:18(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,523
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Yes , I could say "complexity".
Using the current Märklin or Viessman offering , it is manageable , and with a little care and patience you can obtain a decent results.
Sommerfeldt is really very much designed after the "real thing" and requires lots of precision in the placement of the poles and wires (to respect the zig-zag on the pick ups, and above all avoid "derailment" of the pantographs in curves)
Then the wires need to be put under mechanical tension, which is not always simple to accomplish.
But the Sommerfeldt tensionners are very good.
It is IMHO imperative that the poles carrying the tensionners be supported (e.g; guy-wire) so that they do not tip under tension.

And yes, doing it right require quite some planning , as in the real thing! Wink

Cheers

Jacques



I second this. Also, having double-track lines will add further complexity to the layout, as you might want the masts being opposite of each other. This would derive certain challenges, using Sommerfeld standard length wires...

BigGrin



https://www.marklin-user...rklin-Catalog#post507185
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Offline PeFu  
#10 Posted : 28 April 2020 11:40:54(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
For testing and benchmarking, I’ve received a Sommerfeldt ”319” catenary mast and a Dapol package of 10 pcs ”OOCAT1” masts (see pic below). It’s interesting that the Dapol mast (00 scale = 1:76) is smaller than the Sommerfeldt mast (H0). The Dapol mast height from the ground to the lower part of the beam (ausleger) is 7 cm, which I believe is fine having pantographs down. (Yes I know is not realistic, but one of many compromises...) The Dapol masts are pretty nice weathered, which I like! I think I will give Dapol a try.

My reason for considering this at a pretty early stage, is the Bietschtalbrücke which I’m currently building. If preparing for Dapol bases with 4-4.5 mm holes now, I can always fit the more narrow Sommerfeldt bases later.

Smile

949B4BE0-4A23-440A-A95C-78C32E253DFC.jpeg
The Great Krok!
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB/BLS, C and K track, CS2, TrainController Gold V9
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Offline rugauger  
#11 Posted : 17 May 2020 10:11:44(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,192
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Does anyone have any experience with Hobbex catenary? It's supposed to be cheaper than Marklin & Co. It does have plastic masts, though.
Richard
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