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Offline TrainIride  
#1 Posted : 13 March 2020 16:05:14(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Hello Friends,

I have just purchased this lovely loco.

#3414
150 Z 2217 SNCF

This loco had never run.
I wanted to share with you the needed servicing,
after 27 years of hibernation.

Marklin3414a.jpg

First contact with the tracks, the loco does not move...


This loco was an export model from 1993

Mn3414_LR.png


MarklinExport1993-94.jpg

See you next post !
Best regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#2 Posted : 14 March 2020 11:55:39(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
And now

a brief parenthesis on the history of the prototype ...

At first, thank you to

dampflokomotivarchiv.de

for all the informations.

The loco was built in 1942 and was referenced as Br 50 2217 ÜK of the DR.

ÜK for Übergangskriegslokomotive meaning "Transitional war locomotive".

These kind of loco was simplified and light enough to be used in the context of war.

In 1945 the Br 50 2217 ÜK has been given, as a war compensation, to France,
to the "Administration des Domaines " and then referenced "1-150 Z 2217".

No existing picture of this loco nor of what kind of consist was pulled.

If you read french, yo can take a look at :

loco-revue numero-556

of 02.1993. (you can change of page at the bottom of the window)



BR50_Plan.jpg


150 Z 2270.jpg

Best Regards
Joël


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Offline TrainIride  
#3 Posted : 14 March 2020 18:26:29(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
So let us start with my loco


The silver bell close to the chimney looks nice !
Marklin_3414_front.jpg


See the wide space between loco and tender...
..and the noodles of colored wires going through Blink .
This and also the place of the pickup shoe give us information about the reversing unit location...
Marklin_3414_side_cab.jpg




When I first put the loco on tracks, the lady did not move.Blink

I then noticed that the 5 driving axles were completely blocked CryingCryingCryingCryingCrying

To find why the wheels are completely locked, the loco has to be opened


It is easy on this model even if the instructions leaflet attached to the box is not very accurate...

This loco is almost similar to the 3084 model.

Mn3084.jpeg




For the loco body, only two big screws
on this magnificent articulated chassis:

Marklin_3414_under_chassis.jpg

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Offline TrainIride  
#4 Posted : 14 March 2020 19:43:41(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Now opened...



well , not much things inside:
the front bulb
the contact plate for the smoke generator
and the DCM motor.
Marklin_3414_open_right_side.jpg



to solve the blocked wheels problem,
let's remove the rotor at first.

Two screw to remove:
Marklin_3414_motor_right_side.jpg



don't forget to remove the two brushes
Marklin_3414_brushes_right_side.jpg

the three poles rotor is there:
Marklin_3414_rotor_right_side.jpg


Well some dirt on the poles
this proves that the machine has made at least a few turns
Marklin_3414_rotor_out.jpg



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Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 15 March 2020 01:01:38(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,451
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hello Friends,

I have just purchased this lovely loco.

#3414 150 Z 2217 SNCF

This loco had never run.
I wanted to share with you the needed servicing,
after 27 years of hibernation.

First contact with the tracks, the loco does not move...

This loco was an export model from 1993

See you next post !
Best regards
Joël


Some more informatin about the loco:

https://www.lokmuseum.de...er&Seite=31&SID=

http://maerklin-sammler-...iven/03414/03414_mlb.htm

Maerklin-Sammler-Info says it has a Delta decoder inside. They are also providing a spare parts list-

http://maerklin-sammler-...en/03417/03417_explo.pdf

For service see this old manual

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Offline TrainIride  
#6 Posted : 15 March 2020 11:27:28(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Some more informatin about the loco:

...



thank you for this additional informations.ThumpUp
It is important to be able to gather all the knowledge on a single model in a single topic !

Best regards
Joël

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Offline TrainIride  
#7 Posted : 15 March 2020 11:52:22(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Well,
after unmounting the rotor,
the wheels were still blocked.
I delicately tried to move the axles laterally,
and there was no problem !

I finally found the responsible...

This big gear was completely glued to the metal side of the motor:
Marklin_3414_blocked_gear.jpg

It is time to use some medicine ...
my_medication.jpg

First sprayed with WD-40 (the blue bottle) to dissolve the old oil
turned into glue over time:
Marklin_3414_sprayed_blocked_gear.jpg

Wait a few minutes ....

The big gear can be gently turned now,
to let appear the glued thing OhMyGod

Marklin_3414_dirt_blocked_gear.jpg

Now cleaned with alcohol:
Marklin_3414_clean_blocked_gear.jpg


I'm sure there are other recipes, but this one is mine, and it works...BigGrin
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Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 15 March 2020 12:24:47(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi Joél

I have had many times like new or new second hand bought locos with the same problems. Mostly locos from late 1980’s or 1990’s have this ”gear glue” problem. Very often in this same place is the worst jamming point between that big gear wheel and locos metal frame. Your method to fix this problem is very good way to solve this problem. ThumpUp

I have had also locos with grounding problems because there have been too much oil/grease between the wheel axles and the frame. In these cases loco does not run well on straight track sections but goes better on curved track sections. I have removed all axles and wheels and cleaned axles and frames axle holes/bushings with same methods/products and after this fix locos have started to run very well. In some cases that original Märklin oil/grease from the factory has also got to glue like jamming thing in the axles when loco has been sitting in it’s box for decades.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline TrainIride  
#9 Posted : 15 March 2020 14:02:40(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Joél

I have had many times like new or new second hand bought locos with the same problems. Mostly locos from late 1980’s or 1990’s have this ”gear glue” problem. Very often in this same place is the worst jamming point between that big gear wheel and locos metal frame. Your method to fix this problem is very good way to solve this problem. ThumpUp

I have had also locos with grounding problems because there have been too much oil/grease between the wheel axles and the frame. In these cases loco does not run well on straight track sections but goes better on curved track sections. I have removed all axles and wheels and cleaned axles and frames axle holes/bushings with same methods/products and after this fix locos have started to run very well. In some cases that original Märklin oil/grease from the factory has also got to glue like jamming thing in the axles when loco has been sitting in it’s box for decades.

Cheers,
Janne


Hi Janne,

thank you !
Reading your post, reassures me to know that my problem is well known.

And you will see in the next episode, that the loco also is also subject to ground problems,
with the behavior you have described in straight track sections.

I don't have the tools to remove securely the numerous wheels of the loco,
I am also not equipped to carry out a complete realignment of all the rods.

Sooo, I chose a workaround. RollEyes

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline Mark_1602  
#10 Posted : 17 March 2020 07:34:00(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

I'm sure there are other recipes, but this one is mine, and it works...BigGrin


Hi Joël,

I use isopropylic alcohol (a.k.a. isopropanol) to remove old oil or dirt from gears or axles. It works very well, but all contact with paint must be avoided. The black color on most gearboxes or the livery would be dissolved easily, so I only use it on nickel-coated parts. For that reason, spray is not an option for me. On Ebay.de, I've seen a lot of locos from the 1980s or 90s that seem to have discolored gearboxes. I'm not sure if this is the effect of spray or some other solvent, or if Märklin actually made gearboxes that were not black at that time. In general, I avoid Märklin locos produced during those years though I still own a few. Over the last 10 years, I've serviced and sold most of those I used to have.

Too much oil on locos is still an issue nowadays. Modern digital locos often have grounding problems because assembly workers applied too much grease or oil when the loco was produced, as I've read in other MRR forums. According to Stummi Forum members, the problem disappears after a thorough cleaning.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline TrainIride  
#11 Posted : 17 March 2020 14:15:19(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

I'm sure there are other recipes, but this one is mine, and it works...BigGrin


Hi Joël,

I use isopropylic alcohol (a.k.a. isopropanol) to remove old oil or dirt from gears or axles. It works very well, but all contact with paint must be avoided. The black color on most gearboxes or the livery would be dissolved easily, so I only use it on nickel-coated parts. For that reason, spray is not an option for me. On Ebay.de, I've seen a lot of locos from the 1980s or 90s that seem to have discolored gearboxes. I'm not sure if this is the effect of spray or some other solvent, or if Märklin actually made gearboxes that were not black at that time. In general, I avoid Märklin locos produced during those years though I still own a few. Over the last 10 years, I've serviced and sold most of those I used to have.

Too much oil on locos is still an issue nowadays. Modern digital locos often have grounding problems because assembly workers applied too much grease or oil when the loco was produced, as I've read in other MRR forums. According to Stummi Forum members, the problem disappears after a thorough cleaning.


Hi Mark,

thank you for these informations ThumpUp .

I have also noticed more grounding problems on some modern digital locos,
There is the grease of course, but there is also the increasing lack of ground points.
As new locos are often Trix DC compatible, there is more insulation needed,
and the ground points are now created by small and fragile leaf springs behind few wheels...

So it goes...

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#12 Posted : 17 March 2020 15:03:38(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Chapter 2 : the Big Grounding Issue !


Well As Janne and Mark said in their posts, these 1990's models tend to be subject to ground issues...
...and my loco is a very good example Blink .

Let us have a look at the reversing unit input schematic:

MN3414ground.jpg

The pickup shoe is under the tender and feeds the reversing unit with a red wire.

The reversing unit is grounded by a brown wire going to the loco,
this ground wire is connected to the loco metal chassis using one
of the two motor screws.

all the wheels of the loco connect the loco metal chassis to the tracks.



Marklin_3414_tender_inside_origin.jpg








Marklin_3414_side_cab_brown_wire.jpg



Looks good... ...theorically Blink



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Offline Janne75  
#13 Posted : 17 March 2020 19:10:59(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post

Too much oil on locos is still an issue nowadays. Modern digital locos often have grounding problems because assembly workers applied too much grease or oil when the loco was produced, as I've read in other MRR forums. According to Stummi Forum members, the problem disappears after a thorough cleaning.


Hi Mark and Joèl

I think I have unnecessarily blaimed in some of my locos Märklin mfx decoders for being too sensitive for dirty track. It must have been too much oil or grease in the axles or frames axle bushings. Märklin C-Sinus SBB Crocodiles for example does not have this problem when track gets a bit dirty, but Softdrive SBB Crocodiles 39563 and 39565 are very sensitive in these conditions. I have thought before that the reason was mfx decoders vs. C-Sinus controlling electronics but it must be this you wrote. When track has just been cleaned there is no problems = better grounding through the wheels.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline TrainIride  
#14 Posted : 17 March 2020 20:47:30(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
I agree Janne,
and for me this "too much oil which becomes glue and insulating coat"is terrific.

I have tried to clean my 3414 the same way I have cleaned all my previous models,
but no effect.


Marklin_3414_front_axle.jpg



Soooo I have decided to find another solution and started my project:

MN3414ground_mod.jpg



and to modify the strange tender design that was originally:

MN3414tender.jpg

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Offline Janne75  
#15 Posted : 17 March 2020 21:41:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi again

Very good modification plans. I think if you took all the axles and wheels off and cleaned the excessive oil/grease from axles and frame bushings/holes it could fix your problem. But your modification is a good way to have a better grounding without the need to do all of that.

I have also Märklin 3414 but it has old Märklin 6080 ”mouse piano” digital decoder. For some strange reason lights are always on. I have not digitalised it myself so I think it has just some original wirings and smoke unit contact and front light contact are connected together like they are probably from the factory. I will some time fix this so the lights are controllable on/off. It is a good running loco and by this I mean it does not cut off on the straight track sections (it does not have any grounding problems).

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#16 Posted : 18 March 2020 08:03:48(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
I agree Janne,
and for me this "too much oil which becomes glue and insulating coat"is terrific.

I have tried to clean my 3414 the same way I have cleaned all my previous models,
but no effect.


Marklin_3414_front_axle.jpg



Hi Joël,

Have you cleaned every gear and every axle? I would try isopropanol instead of ethanol. It's much more powerful as a cleaner than ethanol. I buy it at the local pharmacy; it's cheap and very efficient. In my opinion, WD-40 is not a real cleaner, but a lubricant. It's an oily substance that I only use on door keys and locks. I don't think that removes all the old oil, and on top of that, WD-40 is not a recommended oil for model trains, is it? If you use that, your loco will run again, but you'll add a new type of oil.

What surprises me in this thread is the grounding problems with locos from the late 1980s or early 90s. I used to have a lot of those, and in recent years I've cleaned and serviced some that I wanted to sell or still own, but I've never had any grounding problems with them. Could the WD-40 be the cause of those issues? The only loco I've ever had a real grounding problem with was a digital BR 01 produced in 2015. The old vintage locos I've cleaned with isopropanol now run very smoothly, and this process has also worked out for locos with blocked gears produced after 1980.

I've quoted your photo of the chassis seen from below because it shows the places that need to be cleaned with isopropanol. You need toothpicks to clean every tooth of every cogwheel to get the grime out. Just dip the toothpick into the isopropanol. Before you use the toothpicks, apply isopropanol with a cotton bud while you turn the wheels (the brushes being removed). I use cotton buds and hold them against the inside of every wheel, above the axle, so the isopropanol trickles down and dissolves the grease on the axle. Try to move the axles sideways. If that is difficult, there is still some old oil. Even if you can easily move every gear and axle, there is now WD-40 all over your chassis, and that might cause the grounding problems.

Once you have finished cleaning the loco, use new oil sparingly. I use Faller Spezial Öler, product number 170489.

Just in case all of this advice does not help and the grounding problems persist: can't you send the loco back to the seller and ask for a refund? In case you used Paypal, you can threaten to open a dispute and force the seller to take it back. Locos that are sold on Ebay are supposed to work, except if advertised as defect.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline TrainIride  
#17 Posted : 18 March 2020 09:00:58(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
I agree Janne,
and for me this "too much oil which becomes glue and insulating coat"is terrific.

I have tried to clean my 3414 the same way I have cleaned all my previous models,
but no effect.


Marklin_3414_front_axle.jpg



Hi Joël,

Have you cleaned every gear and every axle? I would try isopropanol instead of ethanol. It's much more powerful as a cleaner than ethanol. I buy it at the local pharmacy; it's cheap and very efficient. In my opinion, WD-40 is not a real cleaner, but a lubricant. It's an oily substance that I only use on door keys and locks. I don't think that removes all the old oil, and on top of that, WD-40 is not a recommended oil for model trains, is it? If you use that, your loco will run again, but you'll add a new type of oil.

What surprises me in this thread is the grounding problems with locos from the late 1980s or early 90s. I used to have a lot of those, and in recent years I've cleaned and serviced some that I wanted to sell or still own, but I've never had any grounding problems with them. Could the WD-40 be the cause of those issues? The only loco I've ever had a real grounding problem with was a digital BR 01 produced in 2015. The old vintage locos I've cleaned with isopropanol now run very smoothly, and this process has also worked out for locos with blocked gears produced after 1980.

I've quoted your photo of the chassis seen from below because it shows the places that need to be cleaned with isopropanol. You need toothpicks to clean every tooth of every cogwheel to get the grime out. Just dip the toothpick into the isopropanol. Before you use the toothpicks, apply isopropanol with a cotton bud while you turn the wheels (the brushes being removed). I use cotton buds and hold them against the inside of every wheel, above the axle, so the isopropanol trickles down and dissolves the grease on the axle. Try to move the axles sideways. If that is difficult, there is still some old oil. Even if you can easily move every gear and axle, there is now WD-40 all over your chassis, and that might cause the grounding problems.

Once you have finished cleaning the loco, use new oil sparingly. I use Faller Spezial Öler, product number 170489.

Just in case all of this advice does not help and the grounding problems persist: can't you send the loco back to the seller and ask for a refund? In case you used Paypal, you can threaten to open a dispute and force the seller to take it back. Locos that are sold on Ebay are supposed to work, except if advertised as defect.


Hi Mark,

thank you so much for all of this !

But there must have been some misunderstanding,
I have only used WD-40 to dissolve the Big gear glue.
I never use it to lubricate loco wheels I use Märklin 7149.
I never had any problem of this kind.

Now all the gears are running absolutely free.

The only remaining trouble was this Big Ground Issue.
There must have been oxidation, maybe because of a seaside.
I don't know.

The solution I will show soon after had fortunately resolved the trouble.

Best Regards
Joël


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Offline Janne75  
#18 Posted : 18 March 2020 11:03:34(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi Joèl and Mark

I don’t lubricate either my locos with WD40. For cleaning I use mostly some electric components cleaner. For lubrication I use also Märklin 7149, but I have heard some rumours that it can cause loco gear train jamming if loco will be unused for decades after applying it. If I remember correctly then this Märklin 7149 is not a synthetic oil. If it is mineral oil then it was this product which of I have heard these rumours. Actually I started to consider if I should change my lubrication oil for locos just to some synthetic lightweight (viscosity) motor oil.

But I use my locos more frequently than once in a decade or something like that or I at least try to do it. 1-2 times usage minimum per loco per year is my goal.

Best regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline TrainIride  
#19 Posted : 18 March 2020 11:33:41(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
hereafter my DIY solution:

Let us have a look at the tender bogies.

after removing the plastic cover, we can see that the metal bogie
is placed under a plastic pivot.

this perfectly insulates from the ground Cursing .

a metal frame, like in the good old days, would have done the trick.

Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_plastic_pivot.jpg


Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_pivot_close.jpg




I thought about what could be used to ensure the continuity of the ground of the bogie.
I searched in my drawers and found an old used silver pickup shoe.

Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_slider.jpg



and I tried to find a reliable but removable solution, without damaging anything...

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Offline TrainIride  
#20 Posted : 18 March 2020 12:37:19(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
trying different solutions and finding a good setup for the silver spring....

Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_slider_upon.jpg


Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_slider_folded.jpg


Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_slider_top.jpg




The silver leaf spring is finally flattened with pliers, just after a black wire has been soldered on it.

Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_slider_solder.jpg

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Offline TrainIride  
#21 Posted : 18 March 2020 13:44:11(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
There is already a hole in the tender chassis.

the one created by the eyelet used to fix the lug for the other polarity.

Let's use it to escape the black wire.


Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_black_wire_path.jpg



Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_black_wire.jpg




The black wire is now soldered to the brown wire,
the famous brown wire feeding the loco ground to the reversing unit.

Marklin_3414_tender_bogie_to_brown_wire.jpg



Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#22 Posted : 18 March 2020 20:02:11(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Preparing a consist...

...to show you the results

MN3414_consist_2.jpg

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#23 Posted : 19 March 2020 18:53:12(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Well,

not so bad BigGrin




Best Regards
Joël

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Offline Janne75  
#24 Posted : 19 March 2020 23:07:29(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Congratulations of your successful work! ThumpUp

Great idea for improving that original bad grounding. Thanks for sharing us your idea and showing the great results.

Cheers,
Janne

Edited by user 20 March 2020 15:47:31(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#25 Posted : 20 March 2020 09:07:03(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

I have only used WD-40 to dissolve the Big gear glue. I never use it to lubricate loco wheels I use Märklin 7149.


Hi Joël,

Your 3414 is still analog, isn't it? Given the fact that it has a drum collector motor, it runs very well now. I've looked up some information about WD-40. Yes, it can be used to clean metal parts, but apparently it's not a lubricant. Actually, WD means water displacement, so it was meant to be an anti-corrosion spray. In the Vietnam War, U.S. soldiers cleaned their guns with WD-40.

In another MRR forum, the experts on old tin plate trains warn against using WD-40 because it may get underneath the livery and destroy the paint coat. They wouldn't use it on model locos at all, not even on gears. In addition to that, it's more toxic than isopropanol. I service locos inside our house, so I really couldn't use WD-40 there.

My main reason for not using WD-40 on model trains is dosage. Once you press the button, too much of that stuff comes out. The same goes for Märklin's oil (7149). The Faller oil is much more user-friendly thanks to a very thin metal dispenser.

Many Ebay sellers use WD-40 or some other spray to make blocked gears turn again because this allows them to claim that the loco works. In most cases, this is followed by the foolish tip to add some more oil. A look at the discolored bottom side of the gearbox tells me that some kind of spray must have been applied generously to produce fast results. I'd rather buy a loco with blocked gears and service it myself.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
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Offline TrainIride  
#26 Posted : 20 March 2020 18:42:31(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Congratulations of your successful work! ThumpUp

Great idea for improving that original bad grounding. Thanks for sharing us your idea and showing the great results.

Cheers,
Janne


Hi Janne,

thank you for your help and advice,
and thank you for following the thread of this story !

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#27 Posted : 20 March 2020 19:00:40(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,642
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post

I have only used WD-40 to dissolve the Big gear glue. I never use it to lubricate loco wheels I use Märklin 7149.


Hi Joël,

Your 3414 is still analog, isn't it? Given the fact that it has a drum collector motor, it runs very well now. I've looked up some information about WD-40. Yes, it can be used to clean metal parts, but apparently it's not a lubricant. Actually, WD means water displacement, so it was meant to be an anti-corrosion spray. In the Vietnam War, U.S. soldiers cleaned their guns with WD-40.

In another MRR forum, the experts on old tin plate trains warn against using WD-40 because it may get underneath the livery and destroy the paint coat. They wouldn't use it on model locos at all, not even on gears. In addition to that, it's more toxic than isopropanol. I service locos inside our house, so I really couldn't use WD-40 there.

My main reason for not using WD-40 on model trains is dosage. Once you press the button, too much of that stuff comes out. The same goes for Märklin's oil (7149). The Faller oil is much more user-friendly thanks to a very thin metal dispenser.

Many Ebay sellers use WD-40 or some other spray to make blocked gears turn again because this allows them to claim that the loco works. In most cases, this is followed by the foolish tip to add some more oil. A look at the discolored bottom side of the gearbox tells me that some kind of spray must have been applied generously to produce fast results. I'd rather buy a loco with blocked gears and service it myself.


Hi Mark,

yes the loco is still analog, with its original 3 poles DCM motor !

And you know these are the first turns of the loco wheels,
I am sure after a good break-in, the idle speed will be better again.


Thank for your inquiry on the WD 40

I use very little, often outdoors, and to control the amount, I spray it on a cloth or cotton swab.

I never saw any damage to the paintwork unlike when using alcohol 90.

The WD 40 saved the M-tracks of my previous layout from rust
after the house air extractor broke down, during holidays.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline Mark_1602  
#28 Posted : 20 March 2020 20:57:38(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Joël,

It's true that alcohol, especially isopropanol, needs to be used with great care on MRR items. It damages plastic parts as well as paint.

Anyway, you've done a great job on your loco. It now runs better than what might be expected of an analog drum collector motor, and it will probably improve with time. I was intrigued by your thread because I used to collect this type of loco and I'm interested in analog locos. Documented stories like yours that include lots of photos and videos actually help other Märklin users assess which items they might (or might not) want to buy in future.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Mark_1602
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