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Offline Leitner  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2020 11:16:19(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Hello,

Lately I'm less active because I'm getting married and so I'm pretty much forced to move to N Scale (...).

So, I collect Marklin since 1996, I was a young kid back then so I was dependant on parents and grandparents gifts but I stil got quite a few locomotives from that era which still run just fine and, aside from a roof of an old analog V100 which got a little bit broken on a side, I never had issues of any kind.

I had a pause during my teens year and then, when I was 18-19, I restarted my hobby. I was at first surprised by the increase of quality and details and overall satysfied as usual by the Marklin brand which has always been synonim of reliability, problem is that lately I see things are changing.

I want to say that I have a collection of more than a 100 Marklin Locomotives, DMU and EMU, plus I have several others locomotives from Roco, Brawa, Electrotren, Piko and others. All AC three rails.

I started to notice things started to be weird with the latest V200 slipped a lot not only while pulling trains, but also when it was "alone", something never happened on my other V200 or even my Piko V200.

Then lately I got a BR101 Marklin edition, 39378, I went to the shop to pick it up and, while testing it in the shop, it kept derailing. The shopkeeper was quite surprised as well and told me he had to send it back to factory, it arrived back after one month (I assume a brand new one) and it worked fine.

This morning again, I went to pick up a 39683, the first one got a plastic part broken as soon as the shoopkeeper opened it, so he proceeded to get a new one from storage and... It kept derailing on the test track. So I had to leave empty handed and also quite disappointed with Marklin.

Now I want to understand your point of view, are you experiencing similar issues lately or I'm just having bad luck when it comes to Marklin?
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2020 11:22:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,709
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
Now I want to understand your point of view, are you experiencing similar issues lately or I'm just having bad luck when it comes to Marklin?
Märklin are showing a serious lack of quality assurance at least since 2005.
So maybe you are lucky you only noticed this lately.

We had many threads here that deal with quality problems in the past few years.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2020 12:28:20(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,901
Location: Scotland
Never had a problem with derailing that was the fault of the loco. If it happens it is the track with some ballast on it or a turnout which has something preventing the blade to turn. Had problems with some Brawa coaches derailing. Does the dealer not know what the problem is without going back to the manufacturer.
Interesting to know if other members have new locos which derail with the fault being with the loco.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 06 March 2020 13:02:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,709
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Interesting to know if other members have new locos which derail with the fault being with the loco.
A few weeks ago a club mate told us about a new Märklin Re 460. The buffers on the loco had been mounted the wrong way around and this caused derailments of the second coach behind the loco in curves. It took him some time to resolve the issue, but he identified and fixed the problem himself.

I think there were other reports about derailing BR 101 locos. IIRC the issue was with bent truck holders.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Leitner  
#5 Posted : 06 March 2020 13:21:57(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Never had a problem with derailing that was the fault of the loco. If it happens it is the track with some ballast on it or a turnout which has something preventing the blade to turn. Had problems with some Brawa coaches derailing. Does the dealer not know what the problem is without going back to the manufacturer.
Interesting to know if other members have new locos which derail with the fault being with the loco.


It was tested on a C-Track in a store, they have an oval they use for testing.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 06 March 2020 17:11:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Never had a problem with derailing that was the fault of the loco. If it happens it is the track with some ballast on it or a turnout which has something preventing the blade to turn. Had problems with some Brawa coaches derailing. Does the dealer not know what the problem is without going back to the manufacturer.
Interesting to know if other members have new locos which derail with the fault being with the loco.


Derailing because of problems with the (locomotive) model:

1) Metal frame slightly bent, prevented the motor bogie from properly pivoting. (Hag 1987-1995)
2) Wires between decoder/circuit and motor/lights prevented bogie from properly/fully pivoting. (Maerklin 2001-2005)
3) Bogie part not properly installed into motor block. Prevented motor bogie from sitting properly in position. (Maerklin 2012-2015)

That's just three that I have seen in the last 40 years.

Regards

Mike C

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Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 06 March 2020 17:18:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,901
Location: Scotland
Thanks Mike. I can live with three in forty years. I now remember I did have a HAG with a problem but it was the bogie that was not quite right but I was able to fix it and it was OK. Some of the problems could be in the packing which is not sufficient. Been OK with Marklin but now waiting on a Piko comimg and will see how that runs.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 06 March 2020 18:28:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A lot of "Quality issues" are due to the item having suffered a blow in transit, maybe due to rough handling, causing parts to become dislodged. They are very often easily fixed after a quick examination.

For example, a loco I received a few years ago would not run at all, and when I opened it up I saw that the decoder had unplugged itself. A gentle push down was all it needed. I've also seen bogies out of place on locos and wagons, and windows shaken from their frames.

Many of these "so-called" issues would have been spotted by shop owners in the traditional model shop and when handed over the counter would be in perfect condition. In today's online sales world this is not going to happen. Even if the vendor checks it before selling it to you it might still get a few bangs and knocks on its way to you! In the few actual shops that still exist it is my experienced that the sales staff no longer know much about the trains they are selling you.

These problems occur even if the item has been well packed, because the movement is internal to the model item. In cases where the packaging is insufficient there may also be damage to external parts of the loco or wagon, such as couplers, buffers and pantographs.

For all these types of problems I think very little blame can be attributed to the manufacturer. It was probably perfect when it left the factory.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Webmaster  
#9 Posted : 06 March 2020 18:53:07(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,996
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
It was probably perfect when it left the factory.


And probably ran perfectly on the factory test track.

I think most home track is not as smoothly laid as a factory test track, and a factory test track does not test the trickier parts of a real layout as turnouts, crossings etc...

Some models do indeed have design/production errors so you can never rule out that part either.

Model railroading today is also a bit different from my youth when we had M track and larger wheel flanges so it was a bit more tolerant overall towards derailing in those days.
Today we have more details, finer precision and less tolerance for errors - ie more like model, less like play.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 06 March 2020 20:25:35(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post


....

Today we have more details, finer precision and less tolerance for errors - ie more like model, less like play.



Totally in agreement, and a very welcome improvement in my opinion! ThumpUp
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Leitner  
#11 Posted : 07 March 2020 00:08:52(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
A lot of "Quality issues" are due to the item having suffered a blow in transit, maybe due to rough handling, causing parts to become dislodged. They are very often easily fixed after a quick examination.

For example, a loco I received a few years ago would not run at all, and when I opened it up I saw that the decoder had unplugged itself. A gentle push down was all it needed. I've also seen bogies out of place on locos and wagons, and windows shaken from their frames.

Many of these "so-called" issues would have been spotted by shop owners in the traditional model shop and when handed over the counter would be in perfect condition. In today's online sales world this is not going to happen. Even if the vendor checks it before selling it to you it might still get a few bangs and knocks on its way to you! In the few actual shops that still exist it is my experienced that the sales staff no longer know much about the trains they are selling you.

These problems occur even if the item has been well packed, because the movement is internal to the model item. In cases where the packaging is insufficient there may also be damage to external parts of the loco or wagon, such as couplers, buffers and pantographs.

For all these types of problems I think very little blame can be attributed to the manufacturer. It was probably perfect when it left the factory.


Again, I bought the items in physical shop in Germany and they tried it on their test track under my eyes and problem arise there, they receive Marklin shipment in pallet... I hardly believe that out of three locomotives I saw two had problems and one was fine was just a coincidence. And I don't believe coincidence that two locomotives in a row I buy has similar problem.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline Mark_1602  
#12 Posted : 07 March 2020 08:13:10(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
A lot of "Quality issues" are due to the item having suffered a blow in transit, maybe due to rough handling, causing parts to become dislodged.


Hi Ray,

That's right. I once had an unplugged decoder I just had to push down to make the loco work. Two Nohab locos that I had to order from Sweden were probably damaged in transit. Some of the yellow paint on the metal handrails alongside the doors and on the snout had come off, so I decided to send them to Göppingen. When they came back, the job done by Märklin's repair service was not satisfactory, so I had to repeat the procedure. The second time, the handrails looked all right.

The actual problem was that the white pieces of felt used inside the blister to protect the loco were too small, so the handrails or the livery on the front sides were likely to be damaged by the hard blister in case the loco was posted to the customer. I've often seen this problem with old tooling Nohabs from the 1980s or 1990s. Märklin subsequently improved the packaging of the Nohabs to protect the locos.

P.S. One hour after I posted this, I opened a parcel from my Märklin dealer. The first new tooling Nohabs (39670-39674) actually had safer blisters, but a few years later, Märklin went back to old style blisters and small pieces of felt. That's the case for the loco I've just bought (39677) as well as 39675. Why not use a large piece of felt that covers the whole loco? Can't be that expensive ...

Edited by user 07 March 2020 15:36:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline thing fish  
#13 Posted : 07 March 2020 08:38:17(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
... a factory test track does not test the trickier parts of a real layout as turnouts, crossings etc...


I can swear that I have seen Marklin factory test track (maybe during my visit or on a video, I don't remember) and they had all track components; turnouts, crossings, uncoupling tracks, what have you. They even had r1 curves attached in opposite way (making an S turn) ... et. al.

In fact, it would make no sense if they haven't had them all; after all, if you have a new product coming out, you like to test it against all the likely scenarios, methinks.

C.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#14 Posted : 07 March 2020 11:50:56(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 698
Location: Luxembourg
I've definitely seen such a track on Märklin TV as well, but we don't know if those extensive tests are only carried out for the pre-series of a given model or for every loco that leaves the factory. Märklin TV often shows us the pre-series of new tooling locos in Göppingen, but most locos are assembled in Györ. No matter what Märklin shows us in videos or on open days, we don't know what a typical working day looks like.
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin vintage models, but also digital locos & non-vintage rolling stock (focus on Denmark, era 5-6).
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 07 March 2020 12:46:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,691
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
You don't have to test every loco to ensure quality. As long as the first of a batch are test run and any new variations afterwards too, then you can get away with just the odd random test.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline carlos.rivas.16752  
#16 Posted : 07 March 2020 14:18:21(UTC)
carlos.rivas.16752

Spain   
Joined: 08/04/2015(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Vigo, Spain
Originally Posted by: Mark_1602 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thing fish Go to Quoted Post

I can swear that I have seen Marklin factory test track (maybe during my visit or on a video, I don't remember) and they had all track components; turnouts, crossings, uncoupling tracks, what have you. They even had r1 curves attached in opposite way (making an S turn) ... et. al.

C.


I've definitely seen such a track on Märklin TV as well, but we don't know if those extensive tests are only carried out for the pre-series of a given model or for every loco that leaves the factory. Märklin TV often shows us the pre-series of new tooling locos in Göppingen, but most locos are assembled in Györ. No matter what Märklin shows us in videos or on open days, we don't know what a typical working day looks like.


As a matter of fact there are a handful of videos where you can see Märklin´s factory test track has got C, K and even M track. So I assume they test the locos on the three kinds of track.

Around 2:05 K and M test track:


Around 2:30, C and K track test:

Around 1:20, testing on a helix:
My blog both in Spanish and English: https://grunewiesen1965.wordpress.com
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Offline bph  
#17 Posted : 07 March 2020 16:46:19(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 176
I would say that generally the quality control is ok, but you can also have employees who do a poor job.
I have had to fix some minor issues on some items. I usually notify my dealer, so I don't risk losing the warranty. (by law, who in most cases is 5 year’s in Norway, no matter what the maker states.)

But I must say I was quite surprised with one wagon in my 26922 set. The light did not work, and I assumed it was a poor connection, so I opened it and discovered to my surprise that the whole LED PCB was missing. Sent it back to my dealer/Märklin and it took over one year before I got it back.
Offline mike c  
#18 Posted : 07 March 2020 18:17:48(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Montreal, QC
Hard to imagine that 50-60 years ago, models were delivered from the factory in a cardboard box held together by a few staples in key places and a sheet of cardboard to protect the contents.
Today, models come in boxes with styrofoam or foam cradles, often with plastic form fitting liners, yet the older models seemed better protected.
The difference I guess is that models today come with finer details, which often have a greater risk of damage and a transport system that is more reliant on automated machines and people who care less about care than the older generation did.

It can really leave a sour taste in a customer's mouth when they buy a model for nearly 1000 ($/EUR/etc) and there is a small part broken/damaged that cannot be repaired/replaced without significant additional cost. I am still waiting for parts for my LSM Gottardo. Hopefully if they ever release the other variants, I can replace the damaged section of the roof wiring. My dealer and LSM could not get me the parts prior to the Modern Gala bankruptcy.

Regards

Mike C
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