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Offline thing fish  
#1 Posted : 25 February 2020 12:18:19(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
Hi all,

I'm pretty sure most of us have seen the film Cassandra Crossing.

I've watched the film maybe 100th time yesterday, and realised that I have all (but one) the cars and the loco to make the consist. I'm only missing the sleeping car.

Does Marklin have that car? Or any other manufacturer you might suggest?

Also; would a Marklin SBB TEN (4182) sleeping car too far off to use in that consist?

Best,

Cem.
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Offline Unholz  
#2 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:26:23(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
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Location: Switzerland
If I remember correctly (I was a spectator during the filming of the helicopter scenes showing the evacuation of a dog near Zurich in Switzerland in 1976), the sleeping car was an MU type. I think this kind of sleeping car was/is available from a number of manufacturers.
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Offline Unholz  
#3 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:35:33(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,193
Location: Switzerland
Here are three pics of the "Cassandra Crossing" train on the closed SBB line from Niederglatt to Otelfingen near Zurich. On these three shots the sleeping car is not visible, but I guess I have others in my collection if necessary:

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
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Offline thing fish  
#4 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:53:56(UTC)
thing fish

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Wow ...

Thanks for the info and amazing photos.

In fact, may I ask for a copy of the last photo in higher resolution so I can get it printed and framed?

Best,

C.
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Offline Unholz  
#5 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:55:18(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,193
Location: Switzerland
Ah, thanks to a nice person who seems to have "borrowed" Blink my pictures for his Facebook group I can add two pictures where the sleeping car is slightly visible (the third car after the locomotive Re 4/4 II). The total number of cars in this sequence was nine. On one end of the train, a diesel loco Bm 4/4 pulled or pushed it, the Re 4/4 II visible in these pictures had its pantographs lowered due to the missing catenary.

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
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Offline Unholz  
#6 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:58:33(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,193
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: thing fish Go to Quoted Post

In fact, may I ask for a copy of the last photo in higher resolution so I can get it printed and framed?

Sure - but give me a bit of time to search for the negatives - this event was 44 years ago... Wink
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Offline thing fish  
#7 Posted : 25 February 2020 14:02:06(UTC)
thing fish

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Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
the Re 4/4 II visible in these pictures had its pantographs lowered due to the missing catenary.

... Sure - but give me a bit of time to search for the negatives ...


Very cool to see what really it was ... Maybe a consist with a dummy Re4/4 and a Bm4/4 would be much more "original".

And a big thanks in advance for the photo ... really appeciated!

C.

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Offline Unholz  
#8 Posted : 25 February 2020 14:18:24(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
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Location: Switzerland
Cem, I'm happy to help out. ThumpUp

BTW, this was the sequence of the consist shown in my pictures, according to an Internet site:

1 SBB Re 4/4 II
1 SBB RIC baggage car (older type, HO model by Fleischmann)
1 SBB RIC first class car Am (older models by Liliput, newer ones by LS)
1 CIWL sleeper MU
1 SBB RIC first class car Am (as above)
1 SBB RIC dining car WRm "Donauwörth" (older models by Liliput, newer ones my Märklin and LS)
3 SBB RIC second class cars Bm (older models by Liliput, newer ones by LS)
1 SBB RIC baggage car (as above)
1 SBB Bm 4/4

But I'm sure you are aware that in the film scenes produced in other countries the consist was a bit different.
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Offline thing fish  
#9 Posted : 25 February 2020 14:20:16(UTC)
thing fish

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Much appreciated! Love
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#10 Posted : 26 February 2020 03:14:36(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,803
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Cem,

Märklin made the U series car in Orient Express colours in tinplate.
It looks like the sleeper in the above photos.
The model number was 4029, they seem to be a reasonable price these days on eBay or second hand.

Try this page, near the bottom - Marklin 4029

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 26 February 2020 03:22:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Montreal, QC
The last photo of the destination board always piqued my curiosity. Even when I saw the film as a 14 or 15 year old, the route of the train made no sense.

1) Geneva to Basel (OK)
2) Basel to Paris (not electrified and not SBB)
3) Paris to Amsterdam (not SBB)
4) Amsterdam to Copenhagen (not SBB and not sure a train would make that route without a stop in Hannover/Hamburg
and finally. Even if there was a virus on a train, there would be NO reason to keep the Swiss Re 4/4II at the lead of the train outside of Switzerland.

But, other than that (and some of the acting) (and the Fleischmann models going off the bridge) it was a good movie.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 27 February 2020 00:07:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline kimballthurlow  
#12 Posted : 26 February 2020 04:48:03(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,803
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The last photo of the destination board always piqued my curiosity. Even when I saw the film as a 14 or 15 year old, the route of the train made no sense.

1) Geneva to Basel (OK)
2) Basel to Paris (not electrified and not SBB)
3) Paris to Amsterdam (not SBB)
4) Amsterdam to Copenhagen (not SBB and not sure a train would make that route without a stop in Hannover/Hamburg
and finally. Even if there was a virus on a train, there would be NO reason to keep the Swiss Re 4/4II at the lead of the train outside of Switzerland.

But, other than that (and some of the acting) (and the Fleischmann models going off the bridge) if was a good movie.

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,

It is very possible that the train (or parts therof) was integrated with the Nord Express which ran from Paris to Stockholm (via Hamburg and Copenhagen) from the late 1940s well into the 80s I believe.
(Also prior to WWII).
Nord Express was one of the Orient Express routes.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline thing fish  
#13 Posted : 26 February 2020 09:14:58(UTC)
thing fish

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Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: istanbul
Good folks,

Thanks for all the info, very helpful indeed.

And a big thanks to Stephan for the high-res photos.

C.
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Offline thing fish  
#14 Posted : 26 February 2020 09:16:22(UTC)
thing fish

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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
... if was a good movie.


... and quite relevant these days? Blushing

C.

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Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 27 February 2020 00:07:26(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The last photo of the destination board always piqued my curiosity. Even when I saw the film as a 14 or 15 year old, the route of the train made no sense.

1) Geneva to Basel (OK)
2) Basel to Paris (not electrified and not SBB)
3) Paris to Amsterdam (not SBB)
4) Amsterdam to Copenhagen (not SBB and not sure a train would make that route without a stop in Hannover/Hamburg
and finally. Even if there was a virus on a train, there would be NO reason to keep the Swiss Re 4/4II at the lead of the train outside of Switzerland.

But, other than that (and some of the acting) (and the Fleischmann models going off the bridge) if was a good movie.

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,

It is very possible that the train (or parts therof) was integrated with the Nord Express which ran from Paris to Stockholm (via Hamburg and Copenhagen) from the late 1940s well into the 80s I believe.
(Also prior to WWII).
Nord Express was one of the Orient Express routes.

Kimball


A train from Geneva to Basel and from there to Paris by Line 4 (Belfort) would arrive at Gare de l'Est. It would then have to manoeuvre to Gare du Nord for a departure to Brussels and Amsterdam. From Amsterdam to Copenhagen, it would most likely have to go at least as far as Duisburg in Germany and then head north to Hamburg on it's way to Denmark and finally to Sweden. The jaunt east into France would add many unnecessary hours to the trip. More likely, the train would head north from Basel and would meet a segment from Paris and Brussels and one from Amsterdam in Cologne or Duisburg and then the whole train would run north to Denmark and Sweden.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#16 Posted : 27 February 2020 02:16:16(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,803
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
..

A train from Geneva to Basel and from there to Paris by Line 4 (Belfort) would arrive at Gare de l'Est. It would then have to manoeuvre to Gare du Nord for a departure to Brussels and Amsterdam. From Amsterdam to Copenhagen, it would most likely have to go at least as far as Duisburg in Germany and then head north to Hamburg on it's way to Denmark and finally to Sweden. The jaunt east into France would add many unnecessary hours to the trip. More likely, the train would head north from Basel and would meet a segment from Paris and Brussels and one from Amsterdam in Cologne or Duisburg and then the whole train would run north to Denmark and Sweden.

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,
You are likely correct.
If my memory serves me correctly, the point for combining/merging trains was Osnabrück.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Unholz  
#17 Posted : 09 March 2020 17:40:04(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,193
Location: Switzerland
I just watched (and enjoyed) the film again. ThumpUp

I always wondered why in some reports about the rolling stock used in the movie it was mentioned that not only SBB Re 4/4 II no. 11217 played a role, but that also Re 4/4 III no. 11363 was supposed to have made an appearance. Well, I think we can now clear up that mystery or rather mistake quickly: The so-called "11363" visible in the scenes in the Italian shunting yard was in fact an E 645 (I think...) of the FS with a strangely modified front. BigGrin

Take a look at this screenshot:

Disguised Italian loco
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Offline thing fish  
#18 Posted : 09 March 2020 19:52:50(UTC)
thing fish

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Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
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Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
The so-called "11363" visible in the scenes in the Italian shunting yard was in fact an E 645 (I think...) of the FS with a strangely modified front. BigGrin


Ha ha ha ha ... very funny indeed. You never notice these intricate details when you're all caught up with the main theme. Very good to know; now I have one more story to tell next time I'm watching the film with friends!

C.

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Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 10 March 2020 04:54:16(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,621
Location: Montreal, QC
Getting back to the film, can somebody please explain to me how a train from Geneva to Stockholm via Paris and Amsterdam would end up in an Italian shunting yard???

Regards

Mike C
Offline thing fish  
#20 Posted : 10 March 2020 09:00:17(UTC)
thing fish

Turkey   
Joined: 25/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: istanbul
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Getting back to the film, can somebody please explain to me how a train from Geneva to Stockholm via Paris and Amsterdam would end up in an Italian shunting yard???


Took the long way LOL

C.

Offline Unholz  
#21 Posted : 10 March 2020 16:58:27(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,193
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Getting back to the film, can somebody please explain to me how a train from Geneva to Stockholm via Paris and Amsterdam would end up in an Italian shunting yard???

According to this source ( http://www.eisenbahn-im-film.de/info/cassan.htm ), the unidentified Italian shunting yard was only a substitute for Nürnberg (Nuremberg) which was apparently one of the stations on the (strange) route of the train.
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