Steve

If it is the Delta version, it should run fine on your analog track (switching all the dip switches to off)
You will however have no functions from the decoder

Regards
Jean-Pierre

Marklin HO Scale K. Bay State S 3/6 4-6-2 Steam Engine and Tender 33185 Delta

This is the model I am looking at. I was kind of hoping it would make sounds but not really expecting it to. Just out of curiosity is there a way to make it work?

I have a standard Marklin power unit. So I know there is no help there.

Thanks gentlemen,
Steve

Jean-Pierre,

Thanks for the nice words on my bio. I've been building hot rods since I was a kid. I am a trained machinist and fabricator so these HO trains have really challenged me. They are TINY! But I have really enjoyed working on this set.

Sooo - DC - can I still use the same track? I was at the local train club house and was fascinated with the dc and dcc capabilities. So it's in my future. If I don't have to replace all the track and can still use the analog to run the lights in the town I may take the plunge. I do not want to replace my setup track so if I can do it and keep the track layout it is in my future.

Thanks for all the assistance,
Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes, you can still use the same track. C-track will run more smoothly though. I run digital on M-track from time to time. (M-track is the metal track)
If you are willing to buy the loco, you might just go for it and and buy an inexpensive digital controller too.

But try running it with the analog system first. It will run fine, just no extra bells and whistles... not needed to still enjoy the train.

Best of luck,
Mark

Sorry wrong post.

Lets slow down for a minute and get to some basic concepts.
1. Three rail locomotives will not work on two rail track and vice versa without modification.
2. DC and AC both have analogue control modes that use simple transformers to control speed with voltage and direction by switching polarity of the rails (DC) or pulse sequence (AC).

Adding a decoder does not change the first concept. Control protocols such as DCC and MFX are not related really related to DC or AC per se.

Regards,
Roger

Roger hi,

Steve says he uses a standard Marklin power supply; that suggests he has a classic analog layout with m tracks (just supposing).

You're right on above points.

Cem.

A controller is encoding a digital signal which then is sent to the decoder, where the digital signal is decoded for usage. So a controller is quite a different thing than a decoder. Whereas the MRR community does not seperate between an encoder and a decoder, which is incorrect.



It is the decoder inside the loco with a loudspeaker which allows the sound (or as you say noise).

MS 1 is an oldtimer for a controller. Today a MS 2 and/or a CS 3/ CS 3+ are the Maerklin offered controller for a Maerklin MRR. So forget about a MS 1. Or would you buy a 386 windows computer today with Windows 98 as its OPS?

A controller is for the steering of a MRR, A decoder is a converter of electronic impulses for a MRR.

Steve

You can not use the Marklin tracks (3 rail) to run a "normal" DC analog (2 rail) train on it, well you probably could modify C-rails for that, but it would be a hell of a job snipping all the rails so the left and right rail would electrically be isolated from each other.

In a DC (2 rail) layout on rail side is positive the other rail negative, to reverse the train, polarity is switched. The Marklin track (3 rail) has both rails negative and the center one positive

As other said, DCC is only the language that is used between a controller and the decoder inside the train. DCC is mostly used in decoders used on DC (2 rail) systems popular in this part of the world. Motorola, MFX and others mostly on the Marklin 3 rail systems....

Digital locomotives have mostly DC motors. Delta locomotives have AC motors. Analog loks are either AC motors (Marklin / 3 rail) or DC motors (most other manufacturers / 2 rail)

It is not that big of a deal to mod a Delta lok into a "noise making" digital lok, as said install a sound decoder with speaker and perhaps a high performance motor (DC motor), get a digital controller with corresponding power supply and your all set.... you can keep your existing track that way....

Jean-Pierre

Well please read these articles here:

first from Maerklin about "Archive - Historic Digital Control"

https://www.maerklin.de/...istoric-digital-control/

actual Marklin digital
https://www.maerklin.de/...mation/maerklin-digital/

https://static.maerklin....57ac95a9a31493730041.pdf

perhaps the manual from a MS 1

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60652/

and for the MS 2 since software version 3.55. Since then the software has been changed significantly.

https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/60657

or here at Stummi. even it is in German written. But they just list the facts of a MS 1 against a MS 2. This is also for people readable without language knowledges in German

https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=55860

But for you in a very short version.
A MS 2 understands the track protocols MM, MM 2 (= fx), DCC, mfx, mfx+.
A MS 1 understands the track protocols MM, MM 2 (= fx), mfx, only. Yes, a MS 1 shall not be usable for DCC decoders. Oh, as I just saw at H0 post DCC shall be possible. However, it does nothing change very much for this antique controller.

I do not really know very nuch about a MS 1, because this is a much too old equipment for myself. It is not of interest to me. My reentrance in the world of a MRR was in 2013 and I decided not to use superseded technical equipments. And can you guess, as happy I was not buying a CS 2 for X-mas in 2015, when 4 weeks later in 2016 the CS 3 was introduced? Of course I bought the CS 3+, because it comes with a galvanic isolation inside.

BTW: here an overview about Maerklin digital

https://www.maerklin.de/...Gesamt%C3%BCbersicht.pdf

Always of interest but needs a thoroughly studying.

Hmm - if the 3 rail tracks won't work that pretty much ended my DC/DCC dream. I am not willing to completely disassemble my layout and replace track, and switches, and decouplers, and the asundry other items that comprise a layout.

It is odd that the locomotive I am looking at has a third rail pickup under it.

BTW - here is a unit I was looking at that may be what is needed to run a DC train? https://www.ebay.com/itm...XEdahimG:sc:USPSPriority!83686!US!-1

Thanks again!
Steve

Steve

The loco your looking at (Marklin 33185) is supposed the have the third rail pickup under it, nothing odd about that...
The # 60651 controller will not run a DC train (2 rail analog) but will run the 33185 loco on your track in "digital" (Delta) mode. If you switch out the Delta decoder with a sound decoder and a speaker you can even let the loco "make noise" like in a DC/DCC model rail road....

Jean-Pierre

all right lets restart your thread which I just scanned quickly. As I understood you want to buy this loco Maerklin 33185. Do you want to buy this loco because of its colour or because it is a S 3/6 or because of its price or because of its Delta-decoder inside to run it in analogue mode? ""I thought it looked really nice, but green is the color of my other Analog Engine.""

Then you are planning to build into the S 3/6 a new decoder with sound? ""I hadn't planned on anything per se, I was hoping there was a way to make the internal sound unit work.""

Do you have already a Maerklin layout with M-tracks (which is a always 3 L track) running in analogue mode? ""I do and like it very much.""

I can tell you a lot of people running their one and only layout in analogue mode (for Maerklin always means you are using AC), and they can switch the same layout into the digital mode. Running then their digital locos on the same layout as well with digital current. This is not AC and it is not DC. It is a mixture of both, the so called digital current. This is possible. But it is not possible to run any other decoder than a Delta one on a AC analogue mode layout, especially you cannot get the functions you are looking for like sound, etc. "I like the sound of this"

Why do you want to start with a 2 rail system when you got already a 3 rail system? "" I don't want to go to a 2 rail system. I am specifically looking to use my 3 rail and have the DC work on it. I chose that particular locomotive because it will run on the 3-rail system and it is a lovely train. I am not invested in the color."""

DCC you can be used on a digital 3 rail system too. I am struggling with DC and DCC is beyond my old brain to get into at this stage -maybe the future."""

You can use a analogue and digital layout parallel, but never at the same time. ""In other words on two separate tracks. On for the analog and one for the DC and they cannot be on the same set of tracks - I this correct?"""

After getting your answers of my questions, I think I can tell you what will be possible with the railway you already got and what are you planning for.

Last year I bought the Maerklin S 3/6 39436

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/39436/

with a multifunctional decoder inside. It is a really gorgeous loco. But it is in green not brown. If you want it in brown buy the one at eBay and get a new high frequency motor and mSD/3 decoder inside. Then you got almost the same technical equipment inside your S 3/6 as my green one has.

ciao


P.S. The MS 1 (you set the link to eBay) is totally overpriced. Forget it (OK have forgotten it) to buy a MS 1 for a 120 $. And it is just the MS 1 you also need a track box and a power supply for it as well. At one of my Maerklin dealer in Germany you can buy a complete brand new digital set, means MS 2, track box, power supply for 90€ plus shipping costs to the US are 40 €. So alltogether it looks like 130 €, but you get a refund of the German VAT by about 15%. Think about this offer. ""So with this setup I don't have to replace anything in the locomotive itself just the pieces in this setup hooked to the track,and together, will work?"" And the total cost runs about $150 US.""


I am off to bed for now but will check in in the morning. Guten Abend, Steve

Many MS1 sets (transformer + uglybox track) can be found on eBay for under EUR50.- + shipping.

Steve hi,

Try "www.ebay.de" and search for "marklin mobile station 1", you'll find many ...

Cem.

Is this what I am looking for?

https://www.ebay.com/itm...80d88:g:GxIAAOSwgtdeKzxR

Excellent - I made him an offer - we'll now see - -

Thanks Cem - - I think it will be an interesting trip - but I am excited about having sounds that will bring this setup to life. On one of our trips this summer I plan to digitally record an hour or so of train yard noises. i can then play this back on a CD with a small speaker under the layout.

Onward and upward!

Thanks again all -and I am sure there will be more questions

Steve

Indeed, I would participate in this bidding - good offer. Give you a limit till where you will bit. If you get the acceptance bid. It is really a good entry into the digital world. Probabely it does not have the latest software update, but this can be solved. Very good is the offer of a MS 2, a track box and the necessary power supply together. You can plug all in and start digital running immediately. Do not bother if it is grey and not black. I have the grey version as well. Technically identical with the black one. Only the colour has changed, because the new CS 3 came also in black. The CS 2 was in grey too.

Very good score Steve!

I'd suggest (knowing that you want a loco with sounds) you try to buy a loco of your liking WITH sound (and please be careful as locos with horn sound only also passes for 'sound loco') instead of buying a loco and putting in a sound decoder afterwards. This is much more budget friendly.

C.