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Offline Marklin4me  
#1 Posted : 18 January 2020 09:32:27(UTC)
Marklin4me

Denmark   
Joined: 28/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Denmark
Hi all,

I want to know if data on MFX Telemetry are useful. I saw a video on YouTube, from where I understood you are able to see total distance, time decoder have been used etc.

I’m not able to find any explanations/ translation of Telemetry data.

Have a great day.
Regards
Ulrik
Marklin4me
Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2020 00:35:29(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Marklin4me Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I want to know if data on MFX Telemetry are useful. I saw a video on YouTube, from where I understood you are able to see total distance, time decoder have been used etc.

I’m not able to find any explanations/ translation of Telemetry data.

Have a great day.


I even do not understand your question. Telemetry is the wireless transmission of data from a sensor to a receiver. What has it to do with an en-/decoder?
Offline Purellum  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2020 01:00:27(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,241
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Telemetry is the wireless transmission of data from a sensor to a receiver.


No.

Telemetry can just as well be used as a word to describe a wired or optical fiber connection.

Per.

Cool





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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 19 January 2020 01:07:43(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,340
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
While you title this thread with a reference to the CS3, I believe you are probably talking about the mFX+ (not base mfx or mfx/3) decoder which offers, among other things, telemetry data about resource consumption.

This is typically discussed under the WOO (World of Operations) or CabMode functionality and relates to resource aspects like
- Fuel (Diesel, Oil, Coal)
- Water
- Sand
The telemetry of these data is requested by the CS/3 or CS/2 approximately every 10 seconds and the decoder responds with its current value for those values.

The CS will only poll for these data if the decoder registration process informed it that it was capable of this AND the "Operational mode" is set up for
"With Consumption" or "Maintenance Facility"

Note: a newly registered mFX+ decoder will have its "Operational Mode" set to without consumption by default. With earlier firmware versions this may not have occurred and/or the decoder state may be out of sync. If the decoder thinks it is in one of the consumption modes it will "use up" its resource as originally commanded and then stop the loco when one runs out (Stop = slow crawl )


Data is represented on the CS/2 and CS/3 in different way, but generally shows the resource name and its value remaining as a bar-graph or numerical value.



When it comes to the points you raise of "Trip Time" and "Distance" , these are other values that may be seen in the decoder when in the configuration screens.

The current implementation for the normal polling of telemetry, as mentioned above, only retrieves the resource information.
In theory, software may be written to poll for the distance traveled.
Of course this is just a number and while, from the factory, a "gear" ratio is set - it may be that some calibration is needed.



To your point of ... "I want to know if data on MFX Telemetry are useful."
I am unclear on what you are asking.
- Are you asking if those on the forum use the function and think it has value ?
or
- Are you just asking for technical details so you can assess whether the capability has of some use to you personally ?


One thing that should be done with any locomotive is to have a maintenance schedule, the values of trip time might be worked out in such aw way as to help ascertaining when the "40Hrs" is up.
Peter
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 19 January 2020 21:02:59(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,455
essentially, nothing really useful, no.

If they had known anything about digital layout control they may have reported back actual current speed, direction and function settings, etc.

Actual speed (not speed step) would really make smooth and accurate digital control a possibility.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 20 January 2020 03:36:20(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Telemetry is the wireless transmission of data from a sensor to a receiver.


No.

Telemetry can just as well be used as a word to describe a wired or optical fiber connection.

Per.

Cool


Of course you can transfer a signal data over every type of electric conductor. But the telemetry as a word coming up more or less to generally acknowledgement while the Formula One uses it first time in sports.

It is made for a wireless data transfer because of the long or moving distances between the data collecting sensor and the data control and/or analysis station. Or have you ever seen a Formula One racing car with a cable beside his exhaust pipe going to the racing box? Perhaps our F1 fan from NZ may give you an answer thereto.BigGrin

Easier may be another comparison: a TV. A television is a wireless signal receiving station. Indeed meanwhile (I guees it was in the 80ies when it started) you can receive the TV signal per cable as well. But then, everybody speaks of a cable TV.Blink
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2020 06:11:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,413
Location: New Zealand
From Wikipedia

"Telemetry is the collection of measurements or other data at remote or inaccessible points and their automatic transmission to receiving equipment for monitoring"

"Although the term commonly refers to wireless data transfer mechanisms (e.g., using radio, ultrasonic, or infrared systems), it also encompasses data transferred over other media such as a telephone or computer network, optical link or other wired communications like power line carriers. Many modern telemetry systems take advantage of the low cost and ubiquity of GSM networks by using SMS to receive and transmit telemetry data."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemetry

Yes, telemetry is gathered and transmitted in many forms of motor racing including Formula One. It is used in other sports such as Cricket for real time ball tracking for decision reviews. Telemetry is widely used in space programs and was very much depended on in the American Apollo moon flights. Remember the pictures of all those consoles in Mission Control? They were displaying telemetry data from the spacecraft.

Telemetry also has wide use in industrial applications.

Having cleared that up, we can get back to the topic at hand.
Offline Marklin4me  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2020 07:52:34(UTC)
Marklin4me

Denmark   
Joined: 28/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Denmark
Hi,

I'm sorry if I've been unclear. Here I will try to clarify what my questions are about.

I enclose a picture to give you an idea of where I am at CS3.



I have found a clue explanation on Stummi, but I can not find instructions, so I understand it.

Stummi.jpg

Hope this will clear up some misunderstanding.
Regards
Ulrik
Marklin4me
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Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 20 January 2020 09:02:27(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Of course you can transfer a signal data over every type of electric conductor. But the telemetry as a word coming up more or less to generally acknowledgement while the Formula One uses it first time in sports.
It is made for a wireless data transfer because of the long or moving distances between the data collecting sensor and the data control and/or analysis station. Or have you ever seen a Formula One racing car with a cable beside his exhaust pipe going to the racing box? Perhaps our F1 fan from NZ may give you an answer thereto.BigGrin

No, no no!
The word is used for data transmission in the industry for all kinds of automatizations and data adquisition (cabled and wireless). The use in racing sports (and model railroading) would be an insignificant amount of total telemetry used in the world.

PS: I´ve been working with industrial automatization for the last 30 years. PLCs and SCADAs. And while there currently is a clear tendency to transition from wired to wireless installations, the word "telemetry" has existed there since... always.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 20 January 2020 18:36:18(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Of course you can transfer a signal data over every type of electric conductor. But the telemetry as a word coming up more or less to generally acknowledgement while the Formula One uses it first time in sports.
It is made for a wireless data transfer because of the long or moving distances between the data collecting sensor and the data control and/or analysis station. Or have you ever seen a Formula One racing car with a cable beside his exhaust pipe going to the racing box? Perhaps our F1 fan from NZ may give you an answer thereto.BigGrin

No, no no!
The word is used for data transmission in the industry for all kinds of automatizations and data adquisition (cabled and wireless). The use in racing sports (and model railroading) would be an insignificant amount of total telemetry used in the world.

PS: I´ve been working with industrial automatization for the last 30 years. PLCs and SCADAs. And while there currently is a clear tendency to transition from wired to wireless installations, the word "telemetry" has existed there since... always.


Read @BigdaddyNZ post #7 and mine thouroughly again, please.

A data aquisition (an adquisition I do not know) seems to be not the correct English word for gathering data. For myself it is data collection, data capture, etc. This is done by a sensor and never by telemetry. Telemetry stands for a long distance measuring technique, if wireless or not.

If you have worked for all these companies ( I have audited them over 20 years BigGrin - so I know very well too what they are doing. Especially with their cost accounting systems) But you should know as expensive cabling is, over long distances as well as at moving objects, where a cable is useless. BTW still today Germany has not a good coverage for an optical (fibre optic) fast digital cable network, because of its costs. Wireless transfers are much cheaper, but have their own, other problems.

And again read @Bigdaddys post. He is a native English speaker and better in English as you and me together. So I think he explained telemetry very well and we shall follow his recommendation.
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 20 January 2020 18:42:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,331
I did check with the V 200 and on the fourth row it stand receiving error at 87.
What is that?
Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 20 January 2020 19:23:09(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,241
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Read @BigdaddyNZ post #7 and mine thouroughly again, please.

A data aquisition (an adquisition I do not know) seems to be not the correct English word for gathering data. For myself it is data collection, data capture, etc. This is done by a sensor and never by telemetry. Telemetry stands for a long distance measuring technique, if wireless or not.

If you have worked for all these companies ( I have audited them over 20 years BigGrin - so I know very well too what they are doing. Especially with their cost accounting systems) But you should know as expensive cabling is, over long distances as well as at moving objects, where a cable is useless. BTW still today Germany has not a good coverage for an optical (fibre optic) fast digital cable network, because of its costs. Wireless transfers are much cheaper, but have their own, other problems.


You keep showing us that you don't understand the topic or the concept of telemetry.

Even Märklin uses the German word "Telemetrie".

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
And again read @Bigdaddys post. He is a native English speaker and better in English as you and me together. So I think he explained telemetry very well and we shall follow his recommendation.


Yes, he explained that you were wrong, and his recommendation was to "get back to the topic at hand" Cool

Could we do that now, please?

Per.

P.S: I just looked at the German version of the "Telemetry" Wikipedia article, and now know where you found your strange information LOL

Try the English version next time Cool

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 21 January 2020 03:39:08(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Marklin4me Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I'm sorry if I've been unclear. Here I will try to clarify what my questions are about.

I enclose a picture to give you an idea of where I am at CS3.
...
I have found a clue explanation on Stummi, but I can not find instructions, so I understand it.
...
Hope this will clear up some misunderstanding.



Yes it does. Thanks. Unfortunately others here trying to capture your thread for off topic stuff, especially attacking members again, instead to help you answering your question.

For myself the name telemtry for this point is not really a good one and can be misunderstood. Also I was not aware about this point. But I have to confess, I was not yet very much working with this configuration tab. Especially after I destroyed my decoder of my Insider V 320 (39320) by updating its decoder. It made me more sensitive for this section.

Also this tab varies from decoder to decoder. After seeing your picture I checked my just running 103 003-0 (31014-01 is a mfx loco not listed in M database). It does not have this telemetry point in its configuration section. At once I rerailed my 103-101-2 (26680 is a mfx+ loco) from the Lufthansa Express and whoops this loco has this telemetry tab on its decoder.

Then I checked your mentioned Stummi thread too, but it is not really helpful. The major problem for me is a value without any unit details. As one of the Stummi member wrote, he asked Maerklin and they gave him unit details, but they do not align with the values by his opinion. So it looks like even Maerklin does not know all by themselves about its decoder either.

I looked through all the books about the CS 3 and found only the information as given in the Stummi thread. Lenght related values are in cm. Time related values are in seconds. But everywhere the remark for this blue highlightend tab, only be used by experienced users understanding what they are doing.Blink This is not a sufficient documentation.

Also often it was refered to the decoders manual. But I never have seen such a manual for a built in decoder. I only saw a manual for conversion decoder sets.

https://static.maerklin....49aec5e3521564554225.pdf

But these manuals are pretty detailed. Maerklin told me once in the new locos are built in a version of their new mSD/3 decoders. Thre are little differences. But in general they are equal. Perhaps you get a look in one of these manuals, therefore your loco (37923) is a pretty new one. It could be equipped with a mSD/3 "light" decoder. Light, because your loco does not have a decoder inside understanding the DCC format.


BTW while it just happened to me. Never delete a mfx decoder unit (loco or coach) from your CS 3 while this decoder is off your tracks. Only delete it, if it is standing on your layout tracks! Otherwise this mfx decoder is not reregistering again. Found a thread about it at Stummis too.

https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=169653

In the thread only locos are mentioned, but for me it happened with a front forward cab coach with a mfx decoder inside. Same result. Not yet reregistered at my CS 3, although the coach is fully functioning and registering at my MS 2 and the track box. So the coach cannot be faulty. It must have something to do with the CS 3. I have to do further investigations.

All this not a fully satisfying answer, but nevertheless it may help you for a small step further.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 21 January 2020 07:06:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,413
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Unfortunately others here trying to capture your thread for off topic stuff, especially attacking members again, instead to help you answering your question.


That isn't what happened, you started the off topic discussion about the meaning of telemetry and others have been trying to correct your misconceptions. It isn't an attack as you seem to be consistently claiming, so you should not be claiming otherwise.

Please, please stay on topic!
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Offline Marklin4me  
#15 Posted : 21 January 2020 08:43:34(UTC)
Marklin4me

Denmark   
Joined: 28/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post



BTW while it just happened to me. Never delete a mfx decoder unit (loco or coach) from your CS 3 while this decoder is off your tracks. Only delete it, if it is standing on your layout tracks! Otherwise this mfx decoder is not reregistering again. Found a thread about it at Stummis too.

https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=169653

In the thread only locos are mentioned, but for me it happened with a front forward cab coach with a mfx decoder inside. Same result. Not yet reregistered at my CS 3, although the coach is fully functioning and registering at my MS 2 and the track box. So the coach cannot be faulty. It must have something to do with the CS 3. I have to do further investigations.

All this not a fully satisfying answer, but nevertheless it may help you for a small step further.


Hi TEEWolf,

Thanks for the elaborate answer which made me a little wiser. I will therefore contact Märklin in the near future and see if they can provide a clear answer.
Regards
Ulrik
Marklin4me
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Offline hxmiesa  
#16 Posted : 21 January 2020 08:48:10(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Read @BigdaddyNZ post #7 and mine thouroughly again, please.
A data aquisition (an adquisition I do not know) seems to be not the correct English word for gathering data. For myself it is data collection, data capture, etc. This is done by a sensor and never by telemetry. Telemetry stands for a long distance measuring technique, if wireless or not.

I think that you are quite crazy.
A doctor reading a patients heartbeats via magnetic sensors is called telemetry. Those are cables around 1-2 meters long.
All data adquisition is telemetry. Its so simple, yet you manage to mess it up with faulty knowledge.
But that´s not the worst! The worse thing is, that -when called out- you are so stubborn that you keep on defending your misunderstandings.
You even have the nerve to cry like a baby that people "attack" you, when somebody tries to limit the damage of your wrong information.
There´s a lovely spanish saying (it might have an english version), that says (translated) "In the land of blind people, the one-eyed is king".
Meaning that newbies can easily be mis-lead by people with only half the knowledge. A situation that can be avoided here, thanks to people who actually know!

Quote:
And again read @Bigdaddys post. He is a native English speaker and better in English as you and me together. So I think he explained telemetry very well and we shall follow his recommendation.

The degraded and perverted "english" that they speak in the southern hemisphere, is alas far away from the Queens proper english... ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline PJMärklin  
#17 Posted : 21 January 2020 09:26:13(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,589
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The degraded and perverted "english" that they speak in the southern hemisphere...


easy, Sir !! Glare
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 21 January 2020 09:42:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,413
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The degraded and perverted "english" that they speak in the southern hemisphere, is alas far away from the Queens proper english... ;-)


Oi!
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#19 Posted : 21 January 2020 12:13:55(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,056
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Apparently this is also the case in Europe's english where Telemetry (nice- looking word) was used instead of statistics (boring word).
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
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Offline David Dewar  
#20 Posted : 21 January 2020 15:41:35(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,968
Location: Scotland
Thankfully I now know what telemetry it is and is does not have zinc pest. I can now follow the discussion if it gets back on track.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline TEEWolf  
#21 Posted : 21 January 2020 19:57:06(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The degraded and perverted "english" that they speak in the southern hemisphere, is alas far away from the Queens proper english... ;-)


Oi!


LOL LOL LOL
Offline TEEWolf  
#22 Posted : 21 January 2020 20:08:24(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Read @BigdaddyNZ post #7 and mine thouroughly again, please.
A data aquisition (an adquisition I do not know) seems to be not the correct English word for gathering data. For myself it is data collection, data capture, etc. This is done by a sensor and never by telemetry. Telemetry stands for a long distance measuring technique, if wireless or not.

I think that you are quite crazy.
A doctor reading a patients heartbeats via magnetic sensors is called telemetry. Those are cables around 1-2 meters long.
All data adquisition is telemetry. Its so simple, yet you manage to mess it up with faulty knowledge.
But that´s not the worst! The worse thing is, that -when called out- you are so stubborn that you keep on defending your misunderstandings.
You even have the nerve to cry like a baby that people "attack" you, when somebody tries to limit the damage of your wrong information.
There´s a lovely spanish saying (it might have an english version), that says (translated) "In the land of blind people, the one-eyed is king".
Meaning that newbies can easily be mis-lead by people with only half the knowledge. A situation that can be avoided here, thanks to people who actually know!

Quote:
And again read @Bigdaddys post. He is a native English speaker and better in English as you and me together. So I think he explained telemetry very well and we shall follow his recommendation.

The degraded and perverted "english" that they speak in the southern hemisphere, is alas far away from the Queens proper english... ;-)


I knew a good old Latin proverb. Understandable worldwide.

Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses.
Offline Purellum  
#23 Posted : 21 January 2020 22:12:23(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,241
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post



I knew a good old Latin proverb. Understandable worldwide.

Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses.


Maybe understandable worldwide; but here both insulting and clearly not understood by yourself.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Copenhagen  
#24 Posted : 22 January 2020 15:32:25(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 70
Not directed at anybody in particular: Let's not attack each other in this forum.
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