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Offline Maurice  
#1 Posted : 02 January 2020 05:38:16(UTC)
Maurice

New Zealand   
Joined: 08/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: New Zealand
My 2867 BR111 diesel exhibits a strange quirk. It runs well with the slider to rear of loco but if l pick it up and put it back on my K track with the slider to the front it stops in various places. The slider looks in good condition and the locomotive has been upgraded to digital. Other locomotives run with no problem.

Any ideas on why this happens would be appreciated.

Thanks, Maurice
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 02 January 2020 05:50:01(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Maurice Go to Quoted Post
My 2867 BR111 diesel exhibits a strange quirk. It runs well with the slider to rear of loco but if l pick it up and put it back on my K track with the slider to the front it stops in various places. The slider looks in good condition and the locomotive has been upgrades to digital. Other locomotives run with no problem.

Any ideas on why this happens would be appreciated.

Thanks, Maurice


Maurice, there could be several reasons for it not to work properly:

1.) although the slider you said looks ok it could be the tension bars are oxidized, you need to take a small pointed pair of pliers to lift the ends of the slider remove the tension bars and clean the ends of it, sometimes the slider also has black marks at the end of it (inside)
2.) the contacts of the bogie may have oxidized as well but you should see signs on the under frame whereas the silvery frame is dark where the the bogie has been pivoting. at a later stage Märklin added 3 prong tension disk between bogie and frame.
3.) your tracks or middle contact are dirty (but what you've described, it doesn't look like it.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 02 January 2020 06:43:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Maurice Go to Quoted Post
My 2867 BR111 diesel exhibits a strange quirk. It runs well with the slider to rear of loco but if l pick it up and put it back on my K track with the slider to the front it stops in various places. The slider looks in good condition and the locomotive has been upgraded to digital. Other locomotives run with no problem.

Any ideas on why this happens would be appreciated.

Thanks, Maurice


Hi Maurice, can I just clarify, in practical terms, what is the difference between picking the loco up and rotating it 180° back onto the track, vs simply reversing it's direction from the controller?

In other words, if you have the loco running well, and you change direction from the controller, does it still run equally well in the opposite direction, on the same track?

Or, if you lift the loco, physically reverse it end on end, and then run it, does it now run poorly in both directions or just one?

They both have the same result surely? I hope you follow what I'm asking.

Finally, are you running the Loco by itself as part of your testing, or are you pulling the coaches as well? - I am not sure whether that set has current-conducting couplers for coach lighting or not

Cheers

Steve
Wellington


Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Maurice  
#4 Posted : 02 January 2020 09:13:03(UTC)
Maurice

New Zealand   
Joined: 08/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: New Zealand
Hi Steve
Physically rotating it 180 causes the problem. It is fine if l change direction with controller when slider “originally “ at back of loco but when l physically turn it end on end it runs poorly both in forward and reverse. Problem happens both with and without carriages.

I have cleaned wheels and also made sure slider is seated.

I will try Johns suggestions tomorrow and also check coupler height in case it is contacting track but have not observed any sparking.

Maurice
Offline ocram63_uk  
#5 Posted : 02 January 2020 09:45:52(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: England, Suffolk
I had a similar problem a few months ago, my Croc started to run erratically on certain switches. I noticed because the Switchpilot's led flickered. On these switches it had never caused problems before. I put it belly up and looked closely at the slider and noticed that it was skewed with respect to the centre line of the bogie. I re-screwed it with the correct alignment and the problem was solved. I've stopped wondering why the slider was skewed though, who cares :-)
Offline amartinezv  
#6 Posted : 02 January 2020 10:25:58(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,

Hi,

I found a similar problem affecting some locomotives, in the end and after a lot of research, it turned out that the problem came from a bad ground contact, clean and degrease both rails very well, connect a cable directly to the non-motorized bogie to reinforce the ground contact, and also clean the motor bogie very well, especially the axles, I used electric contact cleaners, and then the Märklin oil, I also used Kontak 60 plus, and in the end it was solved.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2020 11:18:26(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Maurice Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve
Physically rotating it 180 causes the problem. It is fine if l change direction with controller when slider “originally “ at back of loco but when l physically turn it end on end it runs poorly both in forward and reverse. Problem happens both with and without carriages.

I have cleaned wheels and also made sure slider is seated.

I will try Johns suggestions tomorrow and also check coupler height in case it is contacting track but have not observed any sparking.

Maurice



Well that just defies logic, and doesn't make sense (to me) but obviously there's a problem or you wouldn't be asking. BigGrin

Perhaps I'm not understanding it correctly but let me throw a scenario into the works. What if you build reversing loop, ie a straight section of track, one turnout, and some curves to loop back so that the loco enters the turnout going in one direction, it does the loop and exits the same turnout back onto the straight track but now in the opposite direction - just as if you had physically picked it up and turned it.

From what you describe, it would continue to run just fine so it's got to be something disturbed in the action of lifting and putting the loco back on the track, a lose or chaffed wire, or something not sitting correctly.

Or there is something I am just not getting.

Very odd.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Online mvd71  
#8 Posted : 02 January 2020 11:35:14(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,710
Location: Auckland,
Hi Maurice,

I have seen this on various locos in the past, quality of earthing is usually the culprit and physically rotating the loco may result in shifting something in how the loco is making contact.

I can take a look at it if you like?

Cheers....

Mike
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2020 12:41:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I had a loco 2 days ago with erratic and none explainable causes until I've looked at the slider and found the problem as I've described above, the loco runs fine now.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline DaleSchultz  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2020 19:25:01(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
rotating it 180° puts a different set of wheels on each running rail.
If one running rail is not well grounded, and the wheels on the side that is well grounded are dirty then it wont work well.

To test this theory, place it in its 'bad' orientation and then short the two running rails to see if the loco improves....

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Maurice  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2020 03:37:50(UTC)
Maurice

New Zealand   
Joined: 08/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: New Zealand
Hi all.
Problem is solved! I cleaned the slider tension bars and the bogie contacts as suggested by John and gave the wheels another clean to ensure good grounding as suggested by Dale, Mike and Antonio but this time with contact cleaner. Now the locomotive is running well with no problems.
Thank you all for your suggestions.
Maurice.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Maurice
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