Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 06 September 2019 01:14:59(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi guys Cool

Which cutting pliers to use to cut the small bridges section ''O'' of the C track rail?

Especially so that they are functional for s88 feedbacks.

The one I have is too big and I use the 170688 faller cutting pliers.

Too many defective cut rails .

And honestly I don't understand how the cut rail (''O'') can touch what makes the feedback faulty?

Thank you for your help

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 06 September 2019 02:20:44(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,434
Hi Thewolf,

I use a good quality plier designed for cutting flex tracks. Something like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/X...lush-Shear/dp/B000IBOOU8

Remember after you have done the cut to use a small flat screw driver and bend the steel tap you just cut down so it’s laying horizontal.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 06 September 2019 15:35:31(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Thewolf,

I use a good quality plier designed for cutting flex tracks. Something like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/X...lush-Shear/dp/B000IBOOU8

Remember after you have done the cut to use a small flat screw driver and bend the steel tap you just cut down so it’s laying horizontal.

Best Regards
Lasse


Thank you Lasse

I hope I'll have some functional cut rails. I have too many losses and I still don't understand. Yet I do exactly as explained

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#4 Posted : 06 September 2019 15:52:06(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,014
Hello Serge,

Like Lasse mentioned Amazon can be your friend when you need it. Only problem is that the price is too high.

https://www.amazon.ca/Xu...ush-Cutter/dp/B000IBSFAI



I use the Xuron 170-II Micro-Shear Flush Cutter.

I think Mike at Westend Trains sells them but you should be able to do an internet search and find them closer to home.

The Xuron 170-II Micro-Shear Flush Cutter is excellent for this job because it is small and reaches into the section where the metal strip needs to be cut and removed.

Michel
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 06 September 2019 16:25:19(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Serge,

Like Lasse mentioned Amazon can be your friend when you need it. Only problem is that the price is too high.

https://www.amazon.ca/Xu...ush-Cutter/dp/B000IBSFAI



I use the Xuron 170-II Micro-Shear Flush Cutter.

I think Mike at Westend Trains sells them but you should be able to do an internet search and find them closer to home.

The Xuron 170-II Micro-Shear Flush Cutter is excellent for this job because it is small and reaches into the section where the metal strip needs to be cut and removed.

Michel


Thank you Michel Cool

My big concern is the number of non-functional cut rails.

The feedback informs the rail''busy'' permanently, due to a bad contact after I cut the small bridge.

I can't find the how, the why of this problem.

According to the forum, I must be the only member who has to cut 15 rails to get one functional one.

It's stressful, tiring, misery, what!

Serge

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#6 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:06:02(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,014
Hello Serge,

What you are doing to the Marklin C track can be confusing and difficult to trouble shoot. My advise to you is to do one section at a time and connect it up to make sure that the section works, then on with the next section. What I know for sure is that you will get problems if you do not make a clean cut of the metal tab.

Looking at my picture make sure you cut the metal strip and make sure there is no metal contact. Do this to both side of the track and also to the whole length of track(s) that will be detected. Don't forget to use the Märklin 74030 isolators to create separate detector tracks.

I had problems too where I know I cut the tab and it was still making a connection that's why it's important to snip the tab in two places. See my picture again, very important! Blink

03BED061-B677-41AC-A9E3-2D96750D3433.jpeg
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by michelvr
Offline blid  
#7 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:13:16(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I am also using C-track and I have cut all my track pieces except the turnouts. To make sure the bridge was cut I used a small flat pair of pliers to turn one of the cut halves about 90 degrees – or just so much that I could see that the bridge was cut. I guess the screwdriver as mentioned above works too. After cutting the bridge I used a meter capable of showing resistance (ohm). I checked that there was no connection between the rails and also no connection to the center rail. Then I knew that the track piece was OK. When the track piece was placed on the layout, on a number of places, the rails were too close together and made a bridge. Again I checked this with the meter. If there was a connection (most likely at the start of an incline) I used a small file to shorten the two rails until there was no connection.

Another source for the S88 to signal occupied is interference from powered wires too close to the feeder wires or the wires connecting the S88s. If so you may even get occupied for S88 exits not yet connected.

Good luck with your cutting! Sometimes you need to spend some on proper tools to get the job done.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, CS1 Reloaded on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by blid
Offline Thewolf  
#8 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:27:11(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Hello Serge,

What you are doing to the Marklin C track can be confusing and difficult to trouble shoot. My advise to you is to do one section at a time and connect it up to make sure that the section works, then on with the next section. What I know for sure is that you will get problems if you do not make a clean cut of the metal tab.

Looking at my picture make sure you cut the metal strip and make sure there is no metal contact. Do this to both side of the track and also to the whole length of track(s) that will be detected. Don't forget to use the Märklin 74030 isolators to create separate detector tracks.

I had problems too where I know I cut the tab and it was still making a connection that's why it's important to snip the tab in two places. See my picture again, very important! Blink

03BED061-B677-41AC-A9E3-2D96750D3433.jpeg



Thank you Michel Cool

At first glance, your cut looks more precise and clearer than mine. I'll check with one of mine this afternoon and post a picture here

Serge
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline blid  
#9 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:27:29(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
To clarify about the use of the small file. This is only necessary where the insulation is and if the meeting rails bridge the insulation.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, CS1 Reloaded on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by blid
Offline Thewolf  
#10 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:37:18(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
I am also using C-track and I have cut all my track pieces except the turnouts. To make sure the bridge was cut I used a small flat pair of pliers to turn one of the cut halves about 90 degrees – or just so much that I could see that the bridge was cut. I guess the screwdriver as mentioned above works too. After cutting the bridge I used a meter capable of showing resistance (ohm). I checked that there was no connection between the rails and also no connection to the center rail. Then I knew that the track piece was OK. When the track piece was placed on the layout, on a number of places, the rails were too close together and made a bridge. Again I checked this with the meter. If there was a connection (most likely at the start of an incline) I used a small file to shorten the two rails until there was no connection.

Another source for the S88 to signal occupied is interference from powered wires too close to the feeder wires or the wires connecting the S88s. If so you may even get occupied for S88 exits not yet connected.

Good luck with your cutting! Sometimes you need to spend some on proper tools to get the job done.


Thank you blidCool

I have a kind of test bench for the S88s.

I have a rail independent of the layout connected to the power on which I connect the cut rail for the test.

The feedback is connected to the last terminal of the last RM88N, completely independent of the layout.

I'm checking the CS2 layout. When the S88 icon stays white, it's OK.

So no wires come to influence anything.

I'll take a picture later.

Thewolf


Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#11 Posted : 06 September 2019 17:58:28(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,014
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
Good luck with your cutting! Sometimes you need to spend some on proper tools to get the job done.


Bild, well said and well written as I could not have said that any better! I learned that many years ago to spend wisely on tools because the good ones will do the job well and last you a lifetime!

Serge, what you are doing is difficult and frustrating, just be patient once you have done a few it will get easier.

Trust me as I was in your shoes too!BigGrin

Regards, Michel
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by michelvr
Offline Thewolf  
#12 Posted : 06 September 2019 20:02:36(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
The S88 test bench

2019090601.JPG

2019090602.JPG

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 06 September 2019 20:12:17(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Some tests :

- success

2019090603.JPG

2019090604.JPG

correct cut-off

2019090605.JPG

2019090607.JPG

- failure

2019090608.JPG

2019090609.JPG

- faulty cuts

2019090610.JPG

2019090611.JPG

2019090612.JPG


If you are able to see what is wrong with the wrong cuts compared to the right one, you are champions because I don't see anything.

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline michelvr  
#14 Posted : 06 September 2019 20:27:28(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,014
Serge,

I can see that the tab is cut but still attached, try to remove the tab completely by cutting it again. Use a multimeter to make sure that you have no continuity!

Offline Danlake  
#15 Posted : 06 September 2019 21:06:45(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,434
Hi Serge,

Not directly related to false detection, but if you also experience issues with flickering detection I would try and improve the wire connection to the track. I noticed you have just a crimp method (which in the photo does not appear too great). Instead of using these small spades most users simple solder the wire on for a reliable connection.

Regarding the track from the photo you shows with a fault indication, try and disconnect it from track layout completely and instead use some alligator clips and connect from your layout outer rail to your track piece. If you don’t have a fault connection now it happens when you click the track together.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Thewolf  
#16 Posted : 06 September 2019 21:20:04(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Serge,

I can see that the tab is cut but still attached, try to remove the tab completely by cutting it again. Use a multimeter to make sure that you have no continuity!



I can't do it Crying

Mike asked me to send him the defective rails. Are at the post office since 1 PM Cool

I ordered a new cutting pliers. I went to Rona's house behind my house: they don't have any. At Home Depot, I don't know how to get there: my wife took the car.

This afternoon, is the cleaning of the tracks

Feedbacks ...later...next week...after the maintenance of the snowblower...winter is coming

Serge
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#17 Posted : 06 September 2019 21:27:14(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Serge,

Not directly related to false detection, but if you also experience issues with flickering detection I would try and improve the wire connection to the track. I noticed you have just a crimp method (which in the photo does not appear too great). Instead of using these small spades most users simple solder the wire on for a reliable connection.




Best Regards
Lasse


Lasse ...Good idea Cool

Soldering...I had thought about it but as this layout is temporary I didn't do it. But since it's a great idea, since I'll certainly have to redo some new cut rails, I'll use the weld and use the defective rails for tests.

Serge
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#18 Posted : 06 September 2019 21:29:05(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi Serge,


Regarding the track from the photo you shows with a fault indication, try and disconnect it from track layout completely and instead use some alligator clips and connect from your layout outer rail to your track piece. If you don’t have a fault connection now it happens when you click the track together.

Best Regards
Lasse


Lasse...sorry Cool

But I don't really understand the use of these alligator clips Bored Confused

Serge

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 07 September 2019 01:23:27(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

The small and very sharp little side-cutter shown by the others is a must, then cut twice on each bridge,
so you can see that there's a gab where you cut.

The crimping's you've made are, hmmm, wrong.

Looking at your picture, the two small taps to the right on the spade connector are meant to hold the wire, including the insulation.
The next two small taps are to make electrical connection from the wire ( The copper ) to the spade connector.
You have the insulation too far into the spade connector, and have not pressed the two taps for electrical connection at all.
This means that the electrical connection is a matter of luck / how the rest of the wire is positioned / changing temperature / vibrations etc.

Further, this means that you can test one of these connections with success, and then after building that piece of track into your layout,
you can have a failure. This will for sure drive you crazy BigGrin

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


2019090605.JPG



Take a look at this picture, I hope you can see how the crimping is done on the wires - this is the correct way.

UserPostedImage

If the picture here isn't big enough for you to see, take a really close look at the wires you have that came from Märklin,
they are also crimped, and crimped the correct way, using the correct tools.

Usually you'll have to use a special tool to do a perfect crimping; but it is possible to do it "OK" with just pliers, or else,
simply solder the wire onto the spade connector, if you don't want to solder directly onto the tracks.

A general rule of thump for all electrical connections like this is: Try to pull the wire from the spade connector after you made your crimping.

If you can pull the wire out, the crimping wasn't good enough.

When testing, a good idea is to do it in a way that allows you to shake / turn / twist the track while you do the testing.
This way you'll find out if there are "loose" things that could give you troubles later on.

The worst things you can have, is tracks that looks OK in the test; but fails once they are installed.

I hope this makes sense and will help you BigGrin

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 07 September 2019 01:46:50(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Please read this: https://www.instructable...ctric-CONTINUITY-TESTER/

What you need is a continuity tester, the cheapest and simplest in the world will be good enough in this case.

In principle, for every track-piece you make like above, including the blue wire for your feedback, you have to make two tests.

In the professional world we make 3 tests for things like this, and I'll mention all 3 to make you understand
the importance of doing it right - to save you from getting an headache BigGrin

Test 1: Make the two probes from the continuity tester touch each other, to make sure the continuity tester is working.

Then connect the two probes from the continuity tester to the two wires you've connected to the track piece.
( brown wires on my picture above )

Test 2: Test that there's no continuity between your two wires / your two rails on the track piece.

Test 3: Make a short circuit between the two rails and test that you now have continuity between your two wires.

While doing test 2 and 3, shake and twist the track-piece and attached wires as much as possible.

If these tests are successful, you can install this piece of track in your layout.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline TEEWolf  
#21 Posted : 07 September 2019 02:54:58(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

The small and very sharp little side-cutter shown by the others is a must, then cut twice on each bridge,
so you can see that there's a gab where you cut.

The crimping's you've made are, hmmm, wrong.

Looking at your picture, the two small taps to the right on the spade connector are meant to hold the wire, including the insulation.
The next two small taps are to make electrical connection from the wire ( The copper ) to the spade connector.
You have the insulation too far into the spade connector, and have not pressed the two taps for electrical connection at all.
This means that the electrical connection is a matter of luck / how the rest of the wire is positioned / changing temperature / vibrations etc.

Further, this means that you can test one of these connections with success, and then after building that piece of track into your layout,
you can have a failure. This will for sure drive you crazy BigGrin

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


2019090605.JPG



Take a look at this picture, I hope you can see how the crimping is done on the wires - this is the correct way.

UserPostedImage

If the picture here isn't big enough for you to see, take a really close look at the wires you have that came from Märklin,
they are also crimped, and crimped the correct way, using the correct tools.

Usually you'll have to use a special tool to do a perfect crimping; but it is possible to do it "OK" with just pliers, or else,
simply solder the wire onto the spade connector, if you don't want to solder directly onto the tracks.

A general rule of thump for all electrical connections like this is: Try to pull the wire from the spade connector after you made your crimping.

If you can pull the wire out, the crimping wasn't good enough.

When testing, a good idea is to do it in a way that allows you to shake / turn / twist the track while you do the testing.
This way you'll find out if there are "loose" things that could give you troubles later on.

The worst things you can have, is tracks that looks OK in the test; but fails once they are installed.

I hope this makes sense and will help you BigGrin

Per.

Cool




Hello Serge,

this time I have to support @Purellums description for these flat sleeve connectors.
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
The crimping's you've made are, hmmm, wrong.


I had similar massive problems. I did not get the current from my CS 3 to my layout, because I was building my own connecting cable (thicker than Maerklin - M has 0,5 mm² - I use 0,75 mm²) and bought cheaper flat sleeve connectors, which I thought are the same as the Maerklin ones. Haha - no way! The Maerklin connecting cable was functioning at the CS 3, mine not. Finally I bought the Maerklin sleeve connectors (art #74995) and connected them to the cable as Maerklin shows in its attached manual.

https://static.maerklin....111c44679b1502455463.pdf

And hurrah, my own built connecting cable is working now too. My learning effect was: note and think about every tiny detail. See a the manual as the flat sleeve connectors were mounted by Maerklin! It is different ot the ones you show in your picture.

Similar with your side-cutting pliers. The Faller is a real good one. I wanted to buy it first too. Then I saw in the Faller catalogue it is made for very fine and tiny cuttings. Very good for Faller products but not strong enough for my thicker cables and metals. Finally I bought (beside a real big one) a side-cutting pliers in between the fine Faller and the strong big one. Mine is a Knipex #78 03 125. On the tool is written the maximum cable diameter for usage of the different hardness of the cables (CU 1,6 and FE 1,0).

https://www.knipex.de/nc...upID=1483&artID=2736

Here for comparison purposes the Faller one against the Knipex. (scroll a bit down, please).

https://www.amazon.de/Kn...sionszange/dp/B0018NJO2I

You see the fine Faller against the little bit stronger Knipex. But this makes the incredible difference. Ah and I was looking for one with a coil spring inside. So it opens the pliers automatically after pressing together both handholds. Makes the cut easier.

Best Regards

Wolfgang
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#22 Posted : 07 September 2019 03:47:07(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,872
Serge

found a video in English - how to do your own contact track



and nice pictures about the cut underneath a C-track. (Text in German)

http://www.modellbahnkel...chalten/Kontaktgleis.htm

And finally an instructional video from Maerklin itself about contact C-track.



See at about 1:40 as the just cutted track with its metal is still bended to avoid any further contact.

ciao

Wolfgang

P.S.: please pay attention to the tools these teachers are using.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Purellum  
#23 Posted : 07 September 2019 08:20:35(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I had similar massive problems. I did not get the current from my CS 3 to my layout, because I was building my own connecting cable (thicker than Maerklin - M has 0,5 mm² - I use 0,75 mm²) and bought cheaper flat sleeve connectors, which I thought are the same as the Maerklin ones.


It is possible to find cheaper connectors identical to Märklin's; but if you don't know where, it's very difficult BigGrin

Most connectors of this type are for taps sized 2,8mm x 0,7mm - the Märklin ones are 2,8mm x 0,5mm.

In 2008 ( Scared !!! ) I bought them in large quantities from Conrad and sold them to Märklin users in Denmark.

When you buy in large quantities from Conrad, you first quote them for a price, otherwise you have to pay
the price listed on their homepage, which is meant for only buying very small quantities.

In 2008 I paid 0,05 Euro gross per piece, when buying 1000 pieces, less than 20% of the Märklin price per piece,
when buying a small plastic bag with 20......... Laugh

This is the correct type: https://www.conrad.com/p...-180-not-insulate-735655

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Serge found a video in English - how to do your own contact track...........


The video is good; but even he uses a wrong type of side cutter IMHO. The Knipex type shown earlier in this thread is much better.

I would choose something like the "shear cutter" type shown here: http://besttorquewrenches.com/wire-cutters/

And you can find similar; but much cheaper than Knipex: https://www.amazon.de/dp...Tm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline blid  
#24 Posted : 07 September 2019 11:14:34(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 122
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I think you wrote that you have a lot of discarded track pieces. Don't trow them away. With a good cutter and perhaps a magnifying glass I think you can make them work - and help pay for the cutter.
CS2, 60215, 4x60174, C-tracks, LDT HSI-88, TC Gold. OneGauge Marklin and MTH, CS1 Reloaded on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by blid
Offline Thewolf  
#25 Posted : 07 September 2019 16:57:47(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Well, from what I can see, I have some reading to do.Blink BigGrin

Thanks to all of youCool

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#26 Posted : 07 September 2019 17:14:12(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

The small and very sharp little side-cutter shown by the others is a must, then cut twice on each bridge,
so you can see that there's a gab where you cut.






Hi Per Cool

Happy to read you.

Cut twice? I'll take a picture of what I understand and post it

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#27 Posted : 07 September 2019 17:22:49(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool



The crimping's you've made are, hmmm, wrong.

Looking at your picture, the two small taps to the right on the spade connector are meant to hold the wire, including the insulation.
The next two small taps are to make electrical connection from the wire ( The copper ) to the spade connector.
You have the insulation too far into the spade connector, and have not pressed the two taps for electrical connection at all.
This means that the electrical connection is a matter of luck / how the rest of the wire is positioned / changing temperature / vibrations etc.

Further, this means that you can test one of these connections with success, and then after building that piece of track into your layout,
you can have a failure. This will for sure drive you crazy BigGrin





Per, Cool

You're right, the job is very badly done. Crying

I remember having many problems doing this crimping. According to the color, it is a larger wire than 0.19mm2 marklin. I had bought the equivalent here in Canada. It was a little bigger than that.

The Good Lord did not give me the right dexterity and agility in my fingers to handle such small '' gogosses''.

It's my big problem.

But I think I have found the solution, at least one that would be within my capabilities,...with training.

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#28 Posted : 07 September 2019 17:29:59(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post




Take a look at this picture, I hope you can see how the crimping is done on the wires - this is the correct way.

UserPostedImage

If the picture here isn't big enough for you to see, take a really close look at the wires you have that came from Märklin,
they are also crimped, and crimped the correct way, using the correct tools.

Usually you'll have to use a special tool to do a perfect crimping; but it is possible to do it "OK" with just pliers, or else,
simply solder the wire onto the spade connector, if you don't want to solder directly onto the tracks.

A general rule of thump for all electrical connections like this is: Try to pull the wire from the spade connector after you made your crimping.

If you can pull the wire out, the crimping wasn't good enough.

When testing, a good idea is to do it in a way that allows you to shake / turn / twist the track while you do the testing.
This way you'll find out if there are "loose" things that could give you troubles later on.

The worst things you can have, is tracks that looks OK in the test; but fails once they are installed.

I hope this makes sense and will help you BigGrin

Per.

Cool


The solution I will use is the one Lasse advised me to use....even if I had initially considered it .

But as a novice in the world of welding, I preferred not to weld, because the layout was temporary.

So, I'm going to solder the wires on the little tab of the O.

It goes without saying that the functional rails will not be replaced.

There's some training to do..

So I'm going to postpone the dismantling of the layout until later

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#29 Posted : 07 September 2019 17:40:41(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Please read this: https://www.instructable...ctric-CONTINUITY-TESTER/

What you need is a continuity tester, the cheapest and simplest in the world will be good enough in this case.

In principle, for every track-piece you make like above, including the blue wire for your feedback, you have to make two tests.

In the professional world we make 3 tests for things like this, and I'll mention all 3 to make you understand
the importance of doing it right - to save you from getting an headache BigGrin

Test 1: Make the two probes from the continuity tester touch each other, to make sure the continuity tester is working.

Then connect the two probes from the continuity tester to the two wires you've connected to the track piece.
( brown wires on my picture above )

Test 2: Test that there's no continuity between your two wires / your two rails on the track piece.

Test 3: Make a short circuit between the two rails and test that you now have continuity between your two wires.

While doing test 2 and 3, shake and twist the track-piece and attached wires as much as possible.

If these tests are successful, you can install this piece of track in your layout.

Per.

Cool


Per, oh, really? Cool

It's not the layout of Wunderland that I'm going to build Drool

Honestly I thought that my test system as described in one of my previous comments was sufficient.

Well, honestly, I don't really want to do all these tests for the simple reason that what you explained to me was Chinese for me.

To each his own profession, you are an electrician, I am a retired accountant and indirect tax expert in Belgium and...... ex forklift driver in Canada with goods receipt supervision

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#30 Posted : 07 September 2019 17:58:19(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post


Hello Serge,

this time I have to support @Purellums description for these flat sleeve connectors.
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
The crimping's you've made are, hmmm, wrong.


I had similar massive problems. I did not get the current from my CS 3 to my layout, because I was building my own connecting cable (thicker than Maerklin - M has 0,5 mm² - I use 0,75 mm²) and bought cheaper flat sleeve connectors, which I thought are the same as the Maerklin ones. Haha - no way! The Maerklin connecting cable was functioning at the CS 3, mine not. Finally I bought the Maerklin sleeve connectors (art #74995) and connected them to the cable as Maerklin shows in its attached manual.

https://static.maerklin....111c44679b1502455463.pdf

And hurrah, my own built connecting cable is working now too. My learning effect was: note and think about every tiny detail. See a the manual as the flat sleeve connectors were mounted by Maerklin! It is different ot the ones you show in your picture.

Similar with your side-cutting pliers. The Faller is a real good one. I wanted to buy it first too. Then I saw in the Faller catalogue it is made for very fine and tiny cuttings. Very good for Faller products but not strong enough for my thicker cables and metals. Finally I bought (beside a real big one) a side-cutting pliers in between the fine Faller and the strong big one. Mine is a Knipex #78 03 125. On the tool is written the maximum cable diameter for usage of the different hardness of the cables (CU 1,6 and FE 1,0).

https://www.knipex.de/nc...upID=1483&artID=2736

Here for comparison purposes the Faller one against the Knipex. (scroll a bit down, please).

https://www.amazon.de/Kn...sionszange/dp/B0018NJO2I

You see the fine Faller against the little bit stronger Knipex. But this makes the incredible difference. Ah and I was looking for one with a coil spring inside. So it opens the pliers automatically after pressing together both handholds. Makes the cut easier.

Best Regards

Wolfgang


Hi Wolfgang Cool

I'm not going to go back on my crimping. He was commented on.

I bought two cutting pliers. At this point, it's not another $20 that's going to bankrupt me: Xuron 2175 B and Xuron 170-ii

The Faller makes me feel like I'm not the right tool. Anyway, I no longer use it for this kind of work.

Serge



Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#31 Posted : 07 September 2019 18:09:02(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Serge

found a video in English - how to do your own contact track



and nice pictures about the cut underneath a C-track. (Text in German)

http://www.modellbahnkel...chalten/Kontaktgleis.htm

And finally an instructional video from Maerklin itself about contact C-track.



See at about 1:40 as the just cutted track with its metal is still bended to avoid any further contact.

ciao

Wolfgang

P.S.: please pay attention to the tools these teachers are using.


Wolfgang Cool

The first video I know

The second one I don't know but it's interesting, we can see very well how to cut.

After watching it, that's exactly the job I'm doing.

I conclude that:

- my Faller cutting pliers were at the end of their life

or

- the different crimps on the O-tongue were wrong

Conclusion:

- I'm waiting for the arrival of the new tools

- I'll solder the wire to the O-tongue and no longer do crimping with the '' gogosses''.

- I will do tests for each cut rail before installing them on the layout

Serge



Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline David Dewar  
#32 Posted : 07 September 2019 23:18:41(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,715
Location: Scotland
Dose not really matter what you use to make the cut as long as nothing is left touching. My Faller cutter does the job OK. Solder I find is better than using the spade connectors. All part of the hobby but it can be annoying. However once you get one right others will follow and be fine.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Thewolf  
#33 Posted : 08 September 2019 01:28:17(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Dose not really matter what you use to make the cut as long as nothing is left touching. My Faller cutter does the job OK. Solder I find is better than using the spade connectors. All part of the hobby but it can be annoying. However once you get one right others will follow and be fine.


I am persistent and optimistic....even if I have adrenaline rushes'''' unhealthy''''...but it falls back very quickly

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
Offline Thewolf  
#34 Posted : 08 September 2019 23:28:16(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,616
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Hi guys Cool

-Big weekend of work on the layout.

-Installation and configuration Link 88 Marklin (60883).

-Two buses with 5 RM88N Opto. I had dismantled them and thrown them in the garbage one day of total irritation. I picked them up in the garage.

-Configuration of Itrain parameters ( it's long)

- Feedback with the rails cut correctly and mounted on the layout works correctly.

-I replaced the defective crimp with a good one.

-Defective rails with the new crimp work correctly, 6 rails declared defective work very well with the wire and the new crimp.

-Cut-off test on 2 rails with the new cutting pliers: success

It's over for today.

Thewolf
Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Thewolf
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.897 seconds.