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Offline avio  
#1 Posted : 06 July 2019 14:54:08(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
This is a very crucial topic..
how can we erogate more electricity to the layout?
Obviously the biggest reason of loosing the signals and changes response and efficiency is the luck of strong constant electricity on the layout...
Yes, we do partitions powered by boosters, yes we control all trains lights with on off decoders and much more...but
any solution on the key issue on how to supply more power? any advice? any tested working solution?
Offline cookee_nz  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2019 23:30:47(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
This is a very crucial topic..
how can we erogate more electricity to the layout?
Obviously the biggest reason of loosing the signals and changes response and efficiency is the luck of strong constant electricity on the layout...
Yes, we do partitions powered by boosters, yes we control all trains lights with on off decoders and much more...but
any solution on the key issue on how to supply more power? any advice? any tested working solution?


You need to supply as much (or a little more) power as what your layout needs, when it is under full load.

To do that, you need to add up the consumption in Amps/mA of all the possible devices and ensure the Trafo supply is higher.

Controllers
Decodes
Lights (Buildings, Coaches, even Turnout Lanterns)
Turnout motors
Locos (or as many as you will ever run at the same time
.... And all other Accessories such as operating models etc.

If you have a large layout, then Boosters will help but is not always such an easy solution when you need to cross from one section to another.

You should maybe tell us a little about your layout.

Is it all Marklin-controlled?
What Controller/s?
What power source/Trafos?
What Locos?
Is the layout all powered from one source or are there seperate circuits?

Then it is easier to help and advise you. BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline avio  
#3 Posted : 07 July 2019 09:52:53(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Good day and thank you for the reply, all you are saying makes a lot of sense all together, and certainly my layout was conceptualize by myself with good knowledge about the aesthetic, look and how to achieve these aspects but much less good planning of the power supply, electrical circuits and all if that.... I am an Architect and Interior designer, so, clearly, my skills, knowledge and limitations are reflected 100% into my layout.

This is what I have:
1 layout Marklin, 3.70 meter by 1.8 meter, 3 levels, connected by ramps. All built in aluminium structure and plexiglass bases, so, one of the key requirements is always been to make cables as less as possible and not visible.
this layout is controlled by CS2 and 3 booster xx74.
all is running quite ok but some problems arise recently like the one that I mention in another topic that I start weeks agô, related to the 2.0 signals, the red dots, staying on but not able to be switched.. but if replaced by the latest version MFX, working ok... the result of this is that after some weeks of discussion with Marklin they asked me to send up to Goeppinger all the 17 signals in order to be upgraded with new software.. will see.. but in fact, I am already replacing them with the new working fine MFX one.
I can certainly say that in general, everything respond well and strong but if I run 5 trains at the same time, some turnout can avoid to respond and operate properly.
I have to say that I connect all on the truck = signals, turnouts, turnouts lights.. and all my trains are lighted inside with decoder controls for switching them on off.
this layout will certainly love more power but no critical problems are there I will say

My second layout position on top of the marklin but totally electrically independent is similar in size and 3 levels development but as you can imagine it is a TRIX 2 rail one, controlled by a CS3 and at the moment 1 booster... the third level is still in contruction, the first 2 are completed.
each level has 14 signals, 24 turnouts, with turnouts lights and on this layout many trains can run from different brands. Here I can certainly say that I can feel that the luck of electricity is more feel able. When 3 trains fully lighted up inside are running, the operation of turnouts become critical and often not working... so, I need / must act

my assumption is that probably the 2 rails transport less electricity and less stable one that the 3 rais one.. but again, I just need more electricity on the entire layout.
At the moment, level one is powered by the CS3 and the second level by one booster xx75... in this level I can add another buster creating a segmentation between the fust running lane and the stations... this will increase for sure efficient.
The third level still in construction I can powered by putting one or again 2 boosters.. these will make the entire layout be controlled by one CS and 4 boosters
Yes.. I agree with you on the fact that problems already arise between sections in this 2 rail layout, so far fixed replacing the booster xx74 with the x75... that marklin say be the same of 74, just the box is in different color... BUT, when I replace the 74 with the 75 all was again, running smouth when trains were moving from one section to another.

My personal plan was not well calculated in the beginning due to my feeling that certainly marklin CS and boosters were capable to supply more then enough, but in fact this was my mistake.. in fact when I check the booster supply in operation, I can see that at 1.2 amp, the signals 2.0, were already out of service, on, but unable to be swotched... so, not efficient at all.. even if the booster technically can supply up to 3.0 amp if I remember well, the efficiency in operation in order to maintain everything up and running is much less, so, I really need to supply more.
,
Offline Purellum  
#4 Posted : 07 July 2019 10:25:18(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Are you feeding the power into the different segments of the layout in only one place per CS / booster,
or do you have more "feeder wires" connected to each segment?

Do you have a multi-meter to measure the voltage on the tracks, when running maximum amount of trains?

If you could measure the voltage, first on the CSs or boosters, then on the tracks close to where you feed the power in,
and then somewhere on the tracks as far away from the power feed as possible - and running as many trains as possible
on the same segment where you do the measuring and while you measure.

Your description makes me think that you have a large voltage drop on your layout. Cool

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

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Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 07 July 2019 13:26:06(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post

This is what I have:
1 layout Marklin, 3.70 meter by 1.8 meter, 3 levels, connected by ramps. All built in aluminium structure and plexiglass bases, so, one of the key requirements is always been to make cables as less as possible and not visible.


I think the comment about "cables as less as possible" is an important detail.

But do you mean that you have not used many cables, or just that they are not visible?

It is always recommend not to rely on the track connections alone. You should run additional wires to distant areas of your layout and feed to the track every few track sections. This will help avoid voltage drop caused by the track connections as Per has already suggested.

I am also interested in your plexiglass base design. I have seen similar ideas in the past but would like to see some images of yours if you can add them?

That might also give us a better idea of where problems might be.

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 07 July 2019 20:21:31(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,032
Location: Auckland,
One possibility to help you with the signals, would be to run the signals on a seperate circuit with their own booster and power supply. If you do that, then the number of trains operating should not be an issue
Offline avio  
#7 Posted : 07 July 2019 22:48:12(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
I supply power to each section using the boosters xx74 in the Marklin and xx75 in the trix connecting them directly to the CS2 in the marklin layout and on the CS3 in the trix layout.
the cable going from the CS to the truck is just one and from the booster to the truck of his section is again only one.. so in fact on my 2 level trix (third to come) I have only 2 cables connected to the truck.. first level from the CS3 and second level from 1 booster xx75

I don’t have a metering and I will get one for sure in order to be more precise on the numbers but for sure, the problem is exactly what you have already presented on your analysis.

Even if my layout in size is not that large, 3.7 meter by 1.7 meter, it is certainly quite crowded. 1 level contain 24 turnouts with related turnout lights and 14 signals, plus the train are fully lighted up when running and with sound decoders. So, even without the metering, I can feel that if I want the signal to activate my turnout well and efficiently, I need to switch down most of the trains.. and it works, so, obviously I need to optimize and increase the supply of power.

In terms of ‘visible / invisible cables, what I have done is to connect all to the truck, making almost no existence of cables running out from the truck (presumably a complete wring decision if I can not now find the way to optimized and increase power supply to the entire layout.
Again, my feeling is that the Marklin one (almost the same size then the trix one) is running considerably better, stronger pulse send to the turnout and more effective response. The only major problem I had recently was due to the bad comportment by the 2.0 signals, but again, if I replace them with the MFX newer version of signals, they seen to work all fine without loosing any switching.

I certainly have been too optimistic about using only the trucks as the main way to distribute electricity all over the circuit / layout. The trains are running ok, but if too many on with lights and sound, then I can loose the power control speed and sometime the sound.

ok.. remedies, what will you do if you are sitting on my chair?
- segment more adding boosters? presumably at the first level I an add one booster = from 1 they will be 2 and at the first level I can do the same, adding one booster to the CS. For the third level, maybe only ine booster will do, considering that it is smaller in terms of quantity of accessories = 10 signals and 8 turnouts with related small lights.

One things you can help me to understand is tge concept of ‘feeders’, how that works? is this done by transporting electricity to other parts of the layout using cables in order to bring stronger power from close to the power supply connection to the truck to distant part of the layout?
or we are talking about external supply of electricity done by boosters not connected to the CS directly, but connected through a trafo directly to the wall power plug?

my limited knowledge about this was pushing me to consider just ine option in order to supply more electricity to the layout.. just create more partitions and add boosters, but maybe also with this ‘concept’ of feeders I can certainly make things better and more efficient. Let me know, thanks.
In the Marklin layout, the CS IS HELPED BY 3 boosters and certainly the general functionality seems to be much better.. but sometime in certain specific areas, some turnouts will not respond well... this can need a feeder (if I have understood well what a feeder is).

For the plexiglass execution, yes, after a career done in making copies of the real environment, I decided to move one and design my own world where the train is the main actor and the only element remembering the real World from
different parts of the World... the layout, the surrounding, I decided to do it on my way, trying to create and deliver some different feelings and emotion if compare with a layout designed with the ‘real World’ in mind. I certainly will send some pics if I manage to understand how to do that.
Offline avio  
#8 Posted : 07 July 2019 22:51:30(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
I think that the best way in order to send images is using an email address??
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 08 July 2019 00:04:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,357
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
I think that the best way in order to send images is using an email address??


No, attach them to your post.

Click on the paper clip in the icons at the top of the window where you write your message, and select "upload new files". Then follow the instructions to drag and drop your image(s) in the big red rectangle and click "upload now". Bur do note that there is a maximum size if images for a post.

When you look at your post there may be only links initially, but after a few minutes the images will appear in your post.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline cookee_nz  
#10 Posted : 08 July 2019 10:36:05(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,996
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
I think that the best way in order to send images is using an email address??


No, attach them to your post.

Click on the paper clip in the icons at the top of the window where you write your message, and select "upload new files". Then follow the instructions to drag and drop your image(s) in the big red rectangle and click "upload now". Bur do note that there is a maximum size if images for a post.

When you look at your post there may be only links initially, but after a few minutes the images will appear in your post.



I think a lot depends on what device is being used to browse the forum.

Tablets and Phones are the worst - absolutely. Regardless of Android or iOS, or dare I say, Windows Mobile which I have on one of my devices.

A 'proper' PC or Laptop seems to be best at the paperclip attach function and personally I just don't see why so many people have trouble with it but without seeing what they see, who can tell.

It is really not much different to attaching a picture or file to an email - same process.

* 1: Click the attach paperclip icon and click "Upload new Files(s)"

* 2: Click "+ Add File(s)... "

* 3: Choose the folder where the file is located and click 'Open" or "Ok" (depends on your system)

* 4: Click "Start Uploads"


And that's it.

Note that steps 2 & 3 can be combined by simply dragging and dropping the file(s) into the large Red "Drop files here" area - but you will already need to have the folder open which has the files in it. Personally I use the 4 steps but sometimes for multiple images in the same folder the drag and drop is actually quicker.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Minok  
#11 Posted : 08 July 2019 21:32:37(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,972
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


I think a lot depends on what device is being used to browse the forum.

Tablets and Phones are the worst - absolutely. Regardless of Android or iOS, or dare I say, Windows Mobile which I have on one of my devices.

A 'proper' PC or Laptop seems to be best at the paperclip attach function and personally I just don't see why so many people have trouble with it but without seeing what they see, who can tell.

It is really not much different to attaching a picture or file to an email - same process.

* 1: Click the attach paperclip icon and click "Upload new Files(s)"

* 2: Click "+ Add File(s)... "

* 3: Choose the folder where the file is located and click 'Open" or "Ok" (depends on your system)

* 4: Click "Start Uploads"


And that's it.

Note that steps 2 & 3 can be combined by simply dragging and dropping the file(s) into the large Red "Drop files here" area - but you will already need to have the folder open which has the files in it. Personally I use the 4 steps but sometimes for multiple images in the same folder the drag and drop is actually quicker.



And that is exactly the same process that I use on my iOS phone, click the paper clip, I get an "add files" dialog box where I can choose the source, one of those choices is the "camera roll" (where the phone's photos are stored), pick that, scroll through the album thumbnails to pick the image, then I'm back at that dialog and select the "start upload" button and off it goes.

Easy peasy.

613E444A-CA76-4E59-A544-DA975DF5693F.png
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 08 July 2019 23:12:10(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Hello Avio.

I'm sorry I don't have much time today, to give you very long instructions; I hope others will step in too. BigGrin

When only using the tracks to transport the "power" from one end of the layout to the other, you loose a little bit of power in every track connection. Even though you call your layout small, I would call it large, especially when only supplying power in one point per segment.

Try to look at how many track-to-track connections the power has to go trough, to get from where you have the power connections from the CSs / boosters to the other end of the layout.

Many times "loosing a little bit" adds up to loosing a lot! Cool

Adding more boosters might help you a little; but for the "wrong" reason, the only thing you gain is that you then also will be supplying power to one spot more on the layout.

The right thing for you to do is to buy some ( red and brown, to make it easy ) wire, and the make a "power bus" under you tracks, starting where the wires are coming from the CSs / boosters, and the on regular intervals connect these wires to the "B" and "0"-taps under your tracks.

If you connect the wires to the tracks for e.g. every 1 meter of track, it will make a huge difference. The "1 meter" is not important; but the more places you connect the power bus, the better. Doing it in too many places doesn't harm; but can be "overkill" and too much work. BigGrin

This way the power will go all over the different segments of your layout without loosing "many times a little bit" in the track connections.

I hope this helps you understand a little better what to do. BigGrin

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline avio  
#13 Posted : 09 July 2019 00:33:54(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
quite amazing.. On my Iphone x when I click the paper clip, I just get a grey window open with no words, no options, no nothing... useless... and I have also tried on another Iphone X MAX, and I got the same.... so, so far I am unable to send pics... I will try some other ways
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 09 July 2019 00:39:17(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,606
Location: New Zealand
Aside from the comments Per and Cookee have made regarding additional track power feeds, there is a way to increase the available power to each section on your layout.

I'm assuming you are using 60061 power supplies to power your CS2 and 60174 boosters. Firstly is your CS2 a 60214 or a 60215? The 60215 has an internal booster rated for a maximum 5 amps power delivery, the 60214 only has the 5 amp booster if it is hardware version 4.31 or above. To get the 5 amps output you need to use a 60100 power supply with your CS2 and each of the 60174 boosters (they already have a 5 amp rated output).

The 5 amp output with the 60100 power supply is only recommended by Marklin for use with 1 Gauge layouts but some folks on the forum use them with H0. It is very important that you use track feeder wires of 0.75mm2 with 5 amps so that the controllers can properly detect a short (when there is a short), otherwise with too small a wire the controller might not detect the short and carry on with power delivery with the possibility of welding locomotive wheels to tracks.
Offline avio  
#15 Posted : 09 July 2019 00:56:07(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Hello Per
thanks a lot for your quick and precise answer and advice. What you are saying makes a lot of sense... Now.. a little more of knowledge that I need in terms of execute what you are saying in the right way:
You are mentioning to built a ‘power bus’.. and this is what my mind think about how to build a power bus.
I will get the red and brown cable directly from the CS and or booster and I will connect the 2 cables to a box (I am not sure how it should like and where to get it) and from this box, I will be able to connect directly a number of red and brown cable going to feed many section of the payout.... is this correct?? is this the right way? something missing?
I will add that, the ‘bus / box’ should be possible positioned as more as possible in the middle of the layout in order to minimize distances to each part and also in order to avoid too long cables.. is this also correct?

many thanks and regards

Avio
———————————————-


Hello Avio.

I'm sorry I don't have much time today, to give you very long instructions; I hope others will step in too. BigGrin

When only using the tracks to transport the "power" from one end of the layout to the other, you loose a little bit of power in every track connection. Even though you call your layout small, I would call it large, especially when only supplying power in one point per segment.

Try to look at how many track-to-track connections the power has to go trough, to get from where you have the power connections from the CSs / boosters to the other end of the layout.

Many times "loosing a little bit" adds up to loosing a lot! Cool

Adding more boosters might help you a little; but for the "wrong" reason, the only thing you gain is that you then also will be supplying power to one spot more on the layout.

The right thing for you to do is to buy some ( red and brown, to make it easy ) wire, and the make a "power bus" under you tracks, starting where the wires are coming from the CSs / boosters, and the on regular intervals connect these wires to the "B" and "0"-taps under your tracks.

If you connect the wires to the tracks for e.g. every 1 meter of track, it will make a huge difference. The "1 meter" is not important; but the more places you connect the power bus, the better. Doing it in too many places doesn't harm; but can be "overkill" and too much work. BigGrin

This way the power will go all over the different segments of your layout without loosing "many times a little bit" in the track connections.

I hope this helps you understand a little better what to do. BigGrin

Per.

Cool



Offline avio  
#16 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:28:17(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Hi, thanks for your advice too
yes, I am using the 60061, and my CS2 is the 60215. In fact the CS2 and 3 boosters are connected to my MARKLIN layout and that one looks in general much more stable. Yes, I am sure that adding ‘feeders’ will help a lot in order to stabilized the electricity all over each level.

The TRIX Layout is the one that I can see is creating visible problems... without trains is running quite ok, turnouts, almost all signals and all the small lights on the turnouts.
The problems comes out when I start to run trains, then my turnouts, start to malfunction and many do no work until I stop trains, switch their lighs off... then, the layout efficiency goes back to normal.
I actually have connect my CS2 to a 60100 already and change the only cable that connect the CS2 to the truck with the biggest cable section. This has been done by me, almost 5 years agô and it is working well, even if I have some doubt that some settings must be changed in the CS2 in order to tell it that you are using a different power supply in order to really have the right increase of electricity. Do you actually know if that is our case?
I look inside the CS2, but I did not found any setting to be changed in relation to the 60100.

thanks
Avio


Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Aside from the comments Per and Cookee have made regarding additional track power feeds, there is a way to increase the available power to each section on your layout.

I'm assuming you are using 60061 power supplies to power your CS2 and 60174 boosters. Firstly is your CS2 a 60214 or a 60215? The 60215 has an internal booster rated for a maximum 5 amps power delivery, the 60214 only has the 5 amp booster if it is hardware version 4.31 or above. To get the 5 amps output you need to use a 60100 power supply with your CS2 and each of the 60174 boosters (they already have a 5 amp rated output).

The 5 amp output with the 60100 power supply is only recommended by Marklin for use with 1 Gauge layouts but some folks on the forum use them with H0. It is very important that you use track feeder wires of 0.75mm2 with 5 amps so that the controllers can properly detect a short (when there is a short), otherwise with too small a wire the controller might not detect the short and carry on with power delivery with the possibility of welding locomotive wheels to tracks.


Offline avio  
#17 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:34:43(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
[yes, it should be so easy exactly as you are explaining.. simple as... but... but.. the reality is different... on my iphone for example a part a grey box with no contents inside, uppear, no options, nothing.. and if I click on top of this frey box, it disappear and everything go back to normal
di

—————————-

quote=Minok;596230]
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


I think a lot depends on what device is being used to browse the forum.

Tablets and Phones are the worst - absolutely. Regardless of Android or iOS, or dare I say, Windows Mobile which I have on one of my devices.

A 'proper' PC or Laptop seems to be best at the paperclip attach function and personally I just don't see why so many people have trouble with it but without seeing what they see, who can tell.

It is really not much different to attaching a picture or file to an email - same process.

* 1: Click the attach paperclip icon and click "Upload new Files(s)"

* 2: Click "+ Add File(s)... "

* 3: Choose the folder where the file is located and click 'Open" or "Ok" (depends on your system)

* 4: Click "Start Uploads"


And that's it.

Note that steps 2 & 3 can be combined by simply dragging and dropping the file(s) into the large Red "Drop files here" area - but you will already need to have the folder open which has the files in it. Personally I use the 4 steps but sometimes for multiple images in the same folder the drag and drop is actually quicker.



And that is exactly the same process that I use on my iOS phone, click the paper clip, I get an "add files" dialog box where I can choose the source, one of those choices is the "camera roll" (where the phone's photos are stored), pick that, scroll through the album thumbnails to pick the image, then I'm back at that dialog and select the "start upload" button and off it goes.

Easy peasy.

613E444A-CA76-4E59-A544-DA975DF5693F.png


Offline avio  
#18 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:41:14(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
29E0A91D-3621-48BB-9E2F-BD2E7AF926F7.jpeg88563B3B-48F7-4F58-B21A-0C5BEF3884EE.jpeg35294024-B9F1-439F-90DD-4C38A6FAE6E4.jpeg9C0D729E-EF4A-45D1-A8ED-E389108454C1.jpeg
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by avio
Offline avio  
#19 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:43:56(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
I finally found the way.. just a matter of understanding how the interface works....

I post some picture of the Marklin layout in contruction.. 4 levels... 1 is purely for cables and 1 is for 15 trucks as a hiding station and the 2 levels above are running trains...
Offline avio  
#20 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:53:04(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
CEFE7E99-36D8-439F-B547-41DCB3A48FFF.jpegB950F991-EAE1-4FC1-BCCA-3DF0A27F69B1.jpegB2363445-BD79-43AA-8652-35619CAC1E6B.jpeg
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by avio
Offline avio  
#21 Posted : 09 July 2019 01:55:12(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
this is my TRIX layout first 2 levels completed and third one under construction.
the 2 layout are design to be seen together positioning them almost one under the other
Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 09 July 2019 06:19:31(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Aside from the comments Per and Cookee have made regarding additional track power feeds, there is a way to increase the available power to each section on your layout.

I'm assuming you are using 60061 power supplies to power your CS2 and 60174 boosters. Firstly is your CS2 a 60214 or a 60215? The 60215 has an internal booster rated for a maximum 5 amps power delivery, the 60214 only has the 5 amp booster if it is hardware version 4.31 or above. To get the 5 amps output you need to use a 60100 power supply with your CS2 and each of the 60174 boosters (they already have a 5 amp rated output).

The 5 amp output with the 60100 power supply is only recommended by Marklin for use with 1 Gauge layouts but some folks on the forum use them with H0. It is very important that you use track feeder wires of 0.75mm2 with 5 amps so that the controllers can properly detect a short (when there is a short), otherwise with too small a wire the controller might not detect the short and carry on with power delivery with the possibility of welding locomotive wheels to tracks.


This will not solve the current ( pun intended BigGrin ) problem, you can't "push" more Amps into the layout if the Voltage isn't present. Cool

I think Avio should try adding some feeder wires before anything else.

Per.

Cool

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Offline Purellum  
#23 Posted : 09 July 2019 06:24:13(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
I will get the red and brown cable directly from the CS and or booster and I will connect the 2 cables to a box (I am not sure how it should like and where to get it) and from this box, I will be able to connect directly a number of red and brown cable going to feed many section of the payout.... is this correct?? is this the right way? something missing?
I will add that, the ‘bus / box’ should be possible positioned as more as possible in the middle of the layout in order to minimize distances to each part and also in order to avoid too long cables.. is this also correct?



This is one way to do it; but you can also use the space under the tracks to run the two wires from
where the power is connected to the CSs / boosters; that way you won't have any visible cables.

I will try later today or tomorrow to find pictures or drawings to show how it can be done.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 09 July 2019 08:21:45(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,606
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
I think Avio should try adding some feeder wires before anything else.


Cool

Of course he should, that's why I said "Aside from the comments Per and Cookee have made regarding additional track power feeds...."

Cool
Offline avio  
#25 Posted : 09 July 2019 14:44:28(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
That was starting to be my idea so far... so, you suggest to pass a number of cables under the truck, ending / bringing / distributing power in different locations of the layout, or in sequence? from the buster to the truck, then under the truck, 1 1 meter and half, stop and connecting to the truck and then from this point, another 1.5 meter and connecting to the truck then keep going like this??

thanks





Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
I will get the red and brown cable directly from the CS and or booster and I will connect the 2 cables to a box (I am not sure how it should like and where to get it) and from this box, I will be able to connect directly a number of red and brown cable going to feed many section of the payout.... is this correct?? is this the right way? something missing?
I will add that, the ‘bus / box’ should be possible positioned as more as possible in the middle of the layout in order to minimize distances to each part and also in order to avoid too long cables.. is this also correct?



This is one way to do it; but you can also use the space under the tracks to run the two wires from
where the power is connected to the CSs / boosters; that way you won't have any visible cables.

I will try later today or tomorrow to find pictures or drawings to show how it can be done.

Per.

Cool



Offline avio  
#26 Posted : 09 July 2019 14:50:59(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Many thanks, if you can find some drawing it will certainly help to make things more clear and precise for me in order to implement this procedure correctly.

just a simple extra question, the ‘feeder cables, they all will start from the main power source generated by the CSX and or boosters, correct? No other direct power supply aside the power generated and controlled by the CS?




Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
I will get the red and brown cable directly from the CS and or booster and I will connect the 2 cables to a box (I am not sure how it should like and where to get it) and from this box, I will be able to connect directly a number of red and brown cable going to feed many section of the payout.... is this correct?? is this the right way? something missing?
I will add that, the ‘bus / box’ should be possible positioned as more as possible in the middle of the layout in order to minimize distances to each part and also in order to avoid too long cables.. is this also correct?



This is one way to do it; but you can also use the space under the tracks to run the two wires from
where the power is connected to the CSs / boosters; that way you won't have any visible cables.

I will try later today or tomorrow to find pictures or drawings to show how it can be done.

Per.

Cool



Offline Purellum  
#27 Posted : 09 July 2019 16:10:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
just a simple extra question, the ‘feeder cables, they all will start from the main power source generated by the CSX and or boosters, correct? No other direct power supply aside the power generated and controlled by the CS?


Correct.

You can not supply any other power to the layout than the power coming from your CSs or your boosters controlled by CSs.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline avio  
#28 Posted : 09 July 2019 18:43:53(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Thank you to confirm that... Now I have to make sure, first that I don’t make mistakes and then to make a restructuring smart efficient plan



Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
just a simple extra question, the ‘feeder cables, they all will start from the main power source generated by the CSX and or boosters, correct? No other direct power supply aside the power generated and controlled by the CS?


Correct.

You can not supply any other power to the layout than the power coming from your CSs or your boosters controlled by CSs.

Per.

Cool



Offline Minok  
#29 Posted : 10 July 2019 01:21:48(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,972
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
quite amazing.. On my Iphone x when I click the paper clip, I just get a grey window open with no words, no options, no nothing... useless... and I have also tried on another Iphone X MAX, and I got the same.... so, so far I am unable to send pics... I will try some other ways


I used an iPhone XS Max in my example. I'm using the Safari default apple web browser. If you are using a different web browser I'm not sure how that would behave, so cannot comment on them. But it looks like you figured it out.

The two grey bars without content are the strange software dialogs related to cookies and something else - the forum software just doesn't work clearly in that regard. Those are not related to the paperclip/attach mechanism but for all I know they may well interfere with getting the other dialog box to choose files if you haven't clicked them to make them go away. Its a forum software issue.


For the power, I'd agree with the others. Run a 'power ring' of ground and power cables under the C track bed under all of the track, and then every few meters of track, tap in there to bring a short power lead up to the track connectors on the c-track. Since the power buss is continuous, you won't loose the power over the track connectors the way one does on c-track. You need one such power ring for each of the isolated sections that is served by the controller/boosters. That is the cheapest cost solution (just wire, connectors and time to install).
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
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My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline dominator  
#30 Posted : 10 July 2019 02:27:49(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 725
Location: Kerikeri
Avio, I ran 3 household single core wires [ rated for at least 15 Amps ] around under my layout [ track is mounted on 1/2" plywood with a layer of 1/2" soft-board beneath the track]. I removed the insulation at regular intervals and soldered a piece of the same single core wire in those places. I then used screw connectors [ we call them chocolate block connectors here ] to make the connection to wires coming from the track. . As my track was set up for analogue, I had black, red and green bus wires. Black and red for obvious reasons and the green fed the yellow power feeders at the points. Those bus wires feed three circuits. I still use the analogue idea for switching points, and uncouplers next to points are controlled by the same switch that lines up the points withe the uncoupler.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline avio  
#31 Posted : 11 July 2019 19:12:07(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Yes yes, at the end I manages to figure it out.. in fact the interface is quite confusing, but trying here and trying there, at the end I maded it..

Regarding the power...The power buss.. it is actually made only by what you suggest = a cable red and brown passing under the C truck and every 1 meter, going up and connected directly to the truck? or there is an actual sort of electrical box, amplifying the electrical power or a sort of similar item named ‘power buss’ that I have to create or get specifically for this task?
The termination / the end of this under truck double cable should connect back to the initial sourse / CS OR BOOSTER in order to create a ring of energy or the last part will be connected to the last meter of truck and terminate there??

Sorry if I ask these basic questions, but I am really not that knowledgable into this very crucial aspect of making a good electrical infrastructure, so I am just trying to avoid silly mestasse..
many thanks


Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
quite amazing.. On my Iphone x when I click the paper clip, I just get a grey window open with no words, no options, no nothing... useless... and I have also tried on another Iphone X MAX, and I got the same.... so, so far I am unable to send pics... I will try some other ways


I used an iPhone XS Max in my example. I'm using the Safari default apple web browser. If you are using a different web browser I'm not sure how that would behave, so cannot comment on them. But it looks like you figured it out.

The two grey bars without content are the strange software dialogs related to cookies and something else - the forum software just doesn't work clearly in that regard. Those are not related to the paperclip/attach mechanism but for all I know they may well interfere with getting the other dialog box to choose files if you haven't clicked them to make them go away. Its a forum software issue.


For the power, I'd agree with the others. Run a 'power ring' of ground and power cables under the C track bed under all of the track, and then every few meters of track, tap in there to bring a short power lead up to the track connectors on the c-track. Since the power buss is continuous, you won't loose the power over the track connectors the way one does on c-track. You need one such power ring for each of the isolated sections that is served by the controller/boosters. That is the cheapest cost solution (just wire, connectors and time to install).


Offline PMPeter  
#32 Posted : 11 July 2019 20:47:50(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 964
Location: Port Moody, BC
The cable that runs around the layout that is coming from your CS or from your booster is called the "Bus cable". There is no amplification or any other electronics involved. From this bus cable you then connect the track feeder cables approximately every 2 metres. Just make sure that you do not mix up your CS bus cable with your booster bus cable. With your CS bus cable you only connect to the track (note you use the word truck which has a totally different meaning) that is/was normally fed by your CS and from your booster bus cable you only connect to the track that is/was connected to that booster.

My layout is approximately 5 m x 4 m in size and I only have one bus cable from my CS2, but numerous connections from the track to the bus. I have no boosters and with 5 locomotives running I draw less than 2 amps.

Cheers
Peter
Offline Purellum  
#33 Posted : 11 July 2019 20:52:34(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
Regarding the power...The power buss.. it is actually made only by what you suggest = a cable red and brown passing under the C truck and every 1 meter, going up and connected directly to the truck? or there is an actual sort of electrical box, amplifying the electrical power or a sort of similar item named ‘power buss’ that I have to create or get specifically for this task?
The termination / the end of this under truck double cable should connect back to the initial sourse / CS OR BOOSTER in order to create a ring of energy or the last part will be connected to the last meter of truck and terminate there??


Just ask all the questions you want to; if we have the answers, we will give them to you BigGrin

There is no "magic box", the "power bus" is just cables, making sure the power goes all over the layout, without any losses. Cool

Make sure that you look at the "B" and "0"-markings under the tracks; if you don't do this, you could end up making short-circuits, because "B" and "0" sits opposite in each end of the track pieces:

UserPostedImage

There are different views to the question about terminating the cables back to the initial source; I like to do it; but others find it better to terminate at the last track, so you don't make a complete loop.

I've tried to find drawings; but couldn't, so I will try to explain:

Option 1: You can make a "star"; where you have to two ( think red and brown ) block-connectors somewhere in the middle of the layout ( read: layout segment ) and from these two block-connectors you can pull a lot of wires to where you want them connected on the layout.

Option 2: You can run two wires under ( or near ) the tracks, and for every meter make a connection up to the "B" and "0"-lugs sitting under the tracks. The easiest thing to do is to run two "thick" wires as the bus under the tracks, and then from the bus up to the lugs on the tracks use a thinner wire.

Option 3: Now it gets complicated to explain in writing......... BigGrin Imagine you take 10 pieces of track, 9 red wires of 1 meter and 9 brown wires of 1 meter.
Now you solder a red and a brown wire to track no. 1, and the other end of the wires you solder to track no. 2. Now, in THE OTHER END of track no. 2 you solder two new wires, and the other end of these two wires you solder to track no. 3. From THE OTHER END of track no. 3 you solder two new wires etc. etc. etc. You have now made something that looks like a "garland" ( guirlande BigGrin ).
You can now use these pieces of track from the "garland" where it suits you on the layout. Of course, in your case, you have the layout already; but this solution can be much easier to manage on an already build layout like yours.

Option 4: Any combination of the 3 first options can be mixed, as long as you ALWAYS have red wires on the "B"-lugs and brown wires on the "0"-lugs. One mistake will make a short-circuit and finding that can be a big challenge........ BigGrin

Please ask again if I've confused you even more now. BigGrin

Per.

P.S: Of course you can use other colors of wire; but do yourself the favor to use red and brown. Instead of different cable colors for the different segments of you layout, you can use a white paint-marker, and make small circles around the wires, one circle for segment 1, 2 circles for segment 2, etc.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

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I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#34 Posted : 11 July 2019 21:41:45(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,606
Location: New Zealand
Eeek, that wire isn't orange......OhMyGodWinkCool
Offline Purellum  
#35 Posted : 11 July 2019 22:41:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Eeek, that wire isn't orange......OhMyGodWinkCool


I know; but I felt I had to make it as easy as possible Cool

As an electrician I've worked with architects before............ LOL

Per.

P.S: Sorry Avio Laugh

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline avio  
#36 Posted : 12 July 2019 17:32:23(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Priceless explanation and very understandable.. thank you so much for that. Now more and more I start to have a clear idea to what to do in order to optimize both layouts... In between the 4 options that you have explained to me, there is a little bit of study to do in order to select the best one in terms of ‘implementation’ but now the wai is getting clear...
thanks again


Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
Regarding the power...The power buss.. it is actually made only by what you suggest = a cable red and brown passing under the C truck and every 1 meter, going up and connected directly to the truck? or there is an actual sort of electrical box, amplifying the electrical power or a sort of similar item named ‘power buss’ that I have to create or get specifically for this task?
The termination / the end of this under truck double cable should connect back to the initial sourse / CS OR BOOSTER in order to create a ring of energy or the last part will be connected to the last meter of truck and terminate there??


Just ask all the questions you want to; if we have the answers, we will give them to you BigGrin

There is no "magic box", the "power bus" is just cables, making sure the power goes all over the layout, without any losses. Cool

Make sure that you look at the "B" and "0"-markings under the tracks; if you don't do this, you could end up making short-circuits, because "B" and "0" sits opposite in each end of the track pieces:

UserPostedImage

There are different views to the question about terminating the cables back to the initial source; I like to do it; but others find it better to terminate at the last track, so you don't make a complete loop.

I've tried to find drawings; but couldn't, so I will try to explain:

Option 1: You can make a "star"; where you have to two ( think red and brown ) block-connectors somewhere in the middle of the layout ( read: layout segment ) and from these two block-connectors you can pull a lot of wires to where you want them connected on the layout.

Option 2: You can run two wires under ( or near ) the tracks, and for every meter make a connection up to the "B" and "0"-lugs sitting under the tracks. The easiest thing to do is to run two "thick" wires as the bus under the tracks, and then from the bus up to the lugs on the tracks use a thinner wire.

Option 3: Now it gets complicated to explain in writing......... BigGrin Imagine you take 10 pieces of track, 9 red wires of 1 meter and 9 brown wires of 1 meter.
Now you solder a red and a brown wire to track no. 1, and the other end of the wires you solder to track no. 2. Now, in THE OTHER END of track no. 2 you solder two new wires, and the other end of these two wires you solder to track no. 3. From THE OTHER END of track no. 3 you solder two new wires etc. etc. etc. You have now made something that looks like a "garland" ( guirlande BigGrin ).
You can now use these pieces of track from the "garland" where it suits you on the layout. Of course, in your case, you have the layout already; but this solution can be much easier to manage on an already build layout like yours.

Option 4: Any combination of the 3 first options can be mixed, as long as you ALWAYS have red wires on the "B"-lugs and brown wires on the "0"-lugs. One mistake will make a short-circuit and finding that can be a big challenge........ BigGrin

Please ask again if I've confused you even more now. BigGrin

Per.

P.S: Of course you can use other colors of wire; but do yourself the favor to use red and brown. Instead of different cable colors for the different segments of you layout, you can use a white paint-marker, and make small circles around the wires, one circle for segment 1, 2 circles for segment 2, etc.

Cool


Offline avio  
#37 Posted : 13 July 2019 18:02:53(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Hi Per,
just one question quite important.
Looking at your picture showing the rail from the back with red and brown cables, how will ypu connect the thinner red and brown cables coming from the rail to the biggest cables running under the C truck?
I suppose that it will be better not to cut the main cables running under the rail, so when the thinner cables will reach the main bigger cable it will be forming a sort of T connection... What do younsuggest for all these important connections in order to keep the electricity flowing in the best possible way???



Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
Regarding the power...The power buss.. it is actually made only by what you suggest = a cable red and brown passing under the C truck and every 1 meter, going up and connected directly to the truck? or there is an actual sort of electrical box, amplifying the electrical power or a sort of similar item named ‘power buss’ that I have to create or get specifically for this task?
The termination / the end of this under truck double cable should connect back to the initial sourse / CS OR BOOSTER in order to create a ring of energy or the last part will be connected to the last meter of truck and terminate there??


Just ask all the questions you want to; if we have the answers, we will give them to you BigGrin

There is no "magic box", the "power bus" is just cables, making sure the power goes all over the layout, without any losses. Cool

Make sure that you look at the "B" and "0"-markings under the tracks; if you don't do this, you could end up making short-circuits, because "B" and "0" sits opposite in each end of the track pieces:

UserPostedImage

There are different views to the question about terminating the cables back to the initial source; I like to do it; but others find it better to terminate at the last track, so you don't make a complete loop.

I've tried to find drawings; but couldn't, so I will try to explain:

Option 1: You can make a "star"; where you have to two ( think red and brown ) block-connectors somewhere in the middle of the layout ( read: layout segment ) and from these two block-connectors you can pull a lot of wires to where you want them connected on the layout.

Option 2: You can run two wires under ( or near ) the tracks, and for every meter make a connection up to the "B" and "0"-lugs sitting under the tracks. The easiest thing to do is to run two "thick" wires as the bus under the tracks, and then from the bus up to the lugs on the tracks use a thinner wire.

Option 3: Now it gets complicadted to explain in writing......... BigGrin Imagine you take 10 pieces of track, 9 red wires of 1 meter and 9 brown wires of 1 meter.
Now you solder a red and a brown wire to track no. 1, and the other end of the wires you solder to track no. 2. Now, in THE OTHER END of track no. 2 you solder two new wires, and the other end of these two wires you solder to track no. 3. From THE OTHER END of track no. 3 you solder two new wires etc. etc. etc. You have now made something that looks like a "garland" ( guirlande BigGrin ).
You can now use these pieces of track from the "garland" where it suits you on the layout. Of course, in your case, you have the layout already; but this solution can be much easier to manage on an already build layout like yours.

Option 4: Any combination of the 3 first options can be mixed, as long as you ALWAYS have red wires on the "B"-lugs and brown wires on the "0"-lugs. One mistake will make a short-circuit and finding that can be a big challenge........ BigGrin

Please ask again if I've confused you even more now. BigGrin

Per.

P.S: Of course you can use other colors of wire; but do yourself the favor to use red and brown. Instead of different cable colors for the different segments of you layout, you can use a white paint-marker, and make small circles around the wires, one circle for segment 1, 2 circles for segment 2, etc.

Cool


Offline poulmh  
#38 Posted : 13 July 2019 21:46:02(UTC)
poulmh

Denmark   
Joined: 13/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: copenhagen
You strip 5mm of the big cable and solder the thinner cable to it.
____________
Poul M Hansen
Offline PMPeter  
#39 Posted : 13 July 2019 21:46:36(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 964
Location: Port Moody, BC
Here is how I do it. Since I use a plywood baseboard and you are using plexiglass it may not be totally suitable, but should give you an idea how to connect the larger and thinner wires.

In my case I use standard North American house wire #14 AWG as my bus wire. I run 2 cables 3C#14 and 2C#14 around the perimeter of my layout tables. At each of the 8 corners I add a standard household junction box covered with a 6 port plate and connect my bus wires to these ports. I thus have 5 insulated conductors and 1 bare ground wire that I can use as my individual bus wires. I run #16 AWG wire from these ports to coloured terminal strips brown, red/white, and yellow which then become the connection points in each area of my layout for the smaller red and brown track feeder wires, white for my catenary feeder wires (from a different power supply or booster), and yellow for my powered accessories (again from a different power supply). I join all my browns together so I don't need to run extra commons.


UserPostedImage

Bus wire distribution

Peter
Offline Purellum  
#40 Posted : 13 July 2019 23:02:26(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
Looking at your picture showing the rail from the back with red and brown cables, how will ypu connect the thinner red and brown cables coming from the rail to the biggest cables running under the C truck?


Using a "Stanley knife", I would cut 5 - 10 mm plastic insulation of the thick cable, without cutting the thick cable. ( As Poul suggests )

Then remove 20 mm insulation from the end of the thinner cable, so you can twist it several times around the thicker one before soldering; this makes it easier to hold it in place; but is not important for conductivity.

Last wrap some plastic insulation tape around the areas with bare wire, or buy some "Heat shrink tubing" and use that instead of tape, to prevent short circuits if the wires should touch each other. If you use heat shrink tubing, you must remember to pull it on to the thicker wire and have it "ready" before you solder too many wires on.

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#41 Posted : 14 July 2019 04:19:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,606
Location: New Zealand
Google Scotchlok connectors.

The easiest way to splice one wire into another.
Offline avio  
#42 Posted : 14 July 2019 10:33:59(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Well clear and as I thought was the best way
thanks again


Originally Posted by: poulmh Go to Quoted Post
You strip 5mm of the big cable and solder the thinner cable to it.


Offline avio  
#43 Posted : 16 July 2019 11:56:33(UTC)
avio

Italy   
Joined: 13/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Florence
Thanks Per for the precise method that I can follow..



Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: avio Go to Quoted Post
Looking at your picture showing the rail from the back with red and brown cables, how will ypu connect the thinner red and brown cables coming from the rail to the biggest cables running under the C truck?


Using a "Stanley knife", I would cut 5 - 10 mm plastic insulation of the thick cable, without cutting the thick cable. ( As Poul suggests )

Then remove 20 mm insulation from the end of the thinner cable, so you can twist it several times around the thicker one before soldering; this makes it easier to hold it in place; but is not important for conductivity.

Last wrap some plastic insulation tape around the areas with bare wire, or buy some "Heat shrink tubing" and use that instead of tape, to prevent short circuits if the wires should touch each other. If you use heat shrink tubing, you must remember to pull it on to the thicker wire and have it "ready" before you solder too many wires on.

Per.

Cool





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