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Offline aclassifier  
#1 Posted : 04 July 2019 15:00:03(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
If asking about BRAWA is not possible on this forum, is there another forum for this?

I recently bought a BRAWA 0571 BLS Te 2/3 [1].

For the first time I discovered an AC 3-rail loco that did not have one wheel with a traction tyre!

The loco carries itself on a flat surface, and perhaps a small car. But I needed to clean my M-track to get even that result.

Is there any way to change a wheel pair on this loco? Where do I find such a wheel pair? I see that BRAWA would have traction tyres on other models, like the BR E77 0252 [2].

I have a feeling that traction tyres are used on Märklin (or AC 3-rail) only.. Am I right? In case, why is it not needed on two-rail systems?

[1] Blog note My BRAWA 0571 BLS Te 2/3 (standard disclaimer: no money, ads, gifts associated with any of my blog notes. Only fun and expenses)

[2] https://www.brawa.de/fanwelt/online-museum/h0/elloks-h0/0252-ellok-br-e-77-dr/
Offline Unholz  
#2 Posted : 04 July 2019 17:01:42(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,097
Location: Switzerland
Yes, for an experienced modeler with the necessary equipment it is possible to mill a groove for a traction tire into the wheel surface. Many users are not happy with the pulling power of this neat little loco. See this example: https://www.forum.hag-in...p;postID=48450#post48450
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Offline aclassifier  
#3 Posted : 04 July 2019 19:21:51(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Yes, for an experienced modeler with the necessary equipment it is possible to mill a groove for a traction tire into the wheel surface. Many users are not happy with the pulling power of this neat little loco. See this example: https://www.forum.hag-in...p;postID=48450#post48450


Thanks a lot, Unholz! That's what I feared!

Offline aclassifier  
#4 Posted : 04 July 2019 19:34:11(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
More:

Would the "Bullfrog Snot" stuff mentioned in the url you pointed to help?

And the other point, I assume two-rail/DC locos also need some kind of added friction?
Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 04 July 2019 19:57:15(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,692
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
If asking about BRAWA is not possible on this forum, is there another forum for this?

I recently bought a BRAWA 0571 BLS Te 2/3 [1].

For the first time I discovered an AC 3-rail loco that did not have one wheel with a traction tyre!

The loco carries itself on a flat surface, and perhaps a small car. But I needed to clean my M-track to get even that result.

Is there any way to change a wheel pair on this loco? Where do I find such a wheel pair? I see that BRAWA would have traction tyres on other models, like the BR E77 0252 [2].

I have a feeling that traction tyres are used on Märklin (or AC 3-rail) only.. Am I right? In case, why is it not needed on two-rail systems?

[1] Blog note My BRAWA 0571 BLS Te 2/3 (standard disclaimer: no money, ads, gifts associated with any of my blog notes. Only fun and expenses)

[2] https://www.brawa.de/fanwelt/online-museum/h0/elloks-h0/0252-ellok-br-e-77-dr/


Of course can you ask here about Brawa, especially it is a AC model. The major point will be, that not too many people are buying BRAWA models.

Myself I wanted to buy one. They are looking very nice and detailed, although more expensive than Märklin. Then I talked to a more experienced railroader one and he was not too positiv about BRAWA, because of its quality. So I still do not have one. Most of my locos are Märklin, one Liliput, PIKO (I like PIKO but it is not really cheaper as Maerklin) and 2 days ago I got my first ESU loco, a BR 245. Also very detailed and nice but more expensive than Märklin. I bought because of a super-saving offer from a dealer, which I could not resist.

AC has more traction tyers as DC? I never had attention to this, but it could be. Because DC has one track line for the "Bahnstrom" (Märklin = red) and the other for the "Masse" (Märklin = brown). So they need more contact surface to the tracks as an AC model, which has 2 lines for Masse (ground) and a slider for its traction current (Bahnstrom) via the Pukos. What else can be kept away for more surface than the traction tyres on the wheels?

But you bought a very nice little loco - do you really need a big traction for a high pulling force for this cute?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Unholz  
#6 Posted : 04 July 2019 19:58:46(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,097
Location: Switzerland
I have no personal experience with that "Bullfrog Snot", but frankly speaking, it looks a bit messy. Wink I wonder what happens when it finds its way into the gears. OhMyGod

It is certainly correct that two-rail/DC models should, in principle, also feature traction tires. However, it seems that most DC modelers don't like them because every traction tire reduces the important electrical contact between rail and wheel. And in the case of a two-axle locomotive like the Brawa 0571, it is probably more important for reliable operation (especially over turnouts/switches) that all four wheels transmit electricity - even if the model pulls less.
Offline Purellum  
#7 Posted : 04 July 2019 20:15:37(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
It is certainly correct that two-rail/DC models should, in principle, also feature traction tires.


Yes; but on the other hand, the 2-rail models doesn't get the "lift" that the pick-up shoe gives.

I would try adding a bit of weight to the loco, I don't trust the Bullfrog Snot, and have never tried it.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline aclassifier  
#8 Posted : 04 July 2019 21:16:58(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Of course can you ask here about Brawa, especially it is a AC model. The major point will be, that not too many people are buying BRAWA models.

Myself I wanted to buy one. They are looking very nice and detailed, although more expensive than Märklin. Then I talked to a more experienced railroader one and he was not too positiv about BRAWA, because of its quality. So I still do not have one. Most of my locos are Märklin, one Liliput, PIKO (I like PIKO but it is not really cheaper as Maerklin) and 2 days ago I got my first ESU loco, a BR 245. Also very detailed and nice but more expensive than Märklin. I bought because of a super-saving offer from a dealer, which I could not resist.

I have commented a few points in my blog note about this loco. To me the quality is, to put it this way, perhaps different. If the high voltage wires on the top are thinner it's not because BRAWA couldn't make them thicker, but I assume, because they wanted to make them more to scale. But this is unusual for me, I have Märklin and Roco models (plus one Lemaco). There are also issues with Märklin locos, like the running properties of SBB Ae 3/6 II that I have shown in [1].
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

AC has more traction tyers as DC? I never had attention to this, but it could be. Because DC has one track line for the "Bahnstrom" (Märklin = red) and the other for the "Masse" (Märklin = brown). So they need more contact surface to the tracks as an AC model, which has 2 lines for Masse (ground) and a slider for its traction current (Bahnstrom) via the Pukos. What else can be kept away for more surface than the traction tyres on the wheels?

Interesting hypothesis!
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

But you bought a very nice little loco - do you really need a big traction for a high pulling force for this cute?

I can certainly live with it and enjoy it as it is! But if somebody threw more traction after me I'd not shed away! A small car behind it is quite ok! And the sound of it is rather interesting when there is no rubber to dampen. More life-like, I guess!

[1] SBB Ae 3/6 II differences
Offline aclassifier  
#9 Posted : 04 July 2019 21:23:40(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
I have no personal experience with that "Bullfrog Snot", but frankly speaking, it looks a bit messy. Wink I wonder what happens when it finds its way into the gears. OhMyGod

That's what I though as well.
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
And in the case of a two-axle locomotive like the Brawa 0571, it is probably more important for reliable operation (especially over turnouts/switches) that all four wheels transmit electricity - even if the model pulls less.

Sounds viable! Because it runs fine acrosss my old M turnouts. BRAWA might have tested with rubber and seen it not run nicely there. I have mailed them, but had no reply so far. That is why I asked here.
Offline aclassifier  
#10 Posted : 04 July 2019 21:28:33(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
It is certainly correct that two-rail/DC models should, in principle, also feature traction tires.

Yes; but on the other hand, the 2-rail models doesn't get the "lift" that the pick-up shoe gives.
I would try adding a bit of weight to the loco, I don't trust the Bullfrog Snot, and have never tried it.
Per.

The front power-less axle (what do you call those axles/wheel sets?) also pushes it up quite some grams. There is ample space in there to add some weight, but if the friction coefficient is so low it would only help marginally. Easier to leave the long passenger car with two bogies back on the station!

Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 04 July 2019 21:45:28(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,067
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: aclassifier Go to Quoted Post
There is ample space in there to add some weight, but if the friction coefficient is so low it would only help marginally. Easier to leave the long passenger car with two bogies back on the station!


Why not just try? A few coins on top of the loco, and you know the result immediately Cool

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline seatrains  
#12 Posted : 04 July 2019 21:59:15(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 642
Location: Shoreline, WA
My North American model railroad friends use bullfrog snot on loks with out traction tires and are happy with the results. See links:

https://www.amazon.com/B...a-708363404807&psc=1
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline hxmiesa  
#13 Posted : 05 July 2019 08:59:25(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,684
Location: Spain
I have an original Märklin loco with no traction tyres. (and NO, it isnt because they fell off)
One of the first Köf´s (actually in colaboration with Brawa) doesnt use them. Instead it relies on 2 small magnets, just over the rail.
It gives enough traction for around 5 easy-rolling freight cars.

So... you could try to add magnets. Should work especially well on M-track. Also, should be easy to "hide" in plain sight if your loco is modelled with "Indusi magnets"; You can then change them into real magnets. lol
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#14 Posted : 06 July 2019 22:39:21(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 671
First, I had problems with the traction, too. Then, I adjusted the hot shoe and everything is fine:




Here, You find my conversion report of the DC version to AC with silent pickup shoe: https://modellbauhuette....-umbau-auf-ac-und-sound/
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Offline Andy McDowell  
#15 Posted : 07 July 2019 00:03:42(UTC)
Andy McDowell

Australia   
Joined: 04/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: New South Wales
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I have an original Märklin loco with no traction tyres. (and NO, it isnt because they fell off)
One of the first Köf´s (actually in colaboration with Brawa) doesnt use them. Instead it relies on 2 small magnets, just over the rail.
It gives enough traction for around 5 easy-rolling freight cars.

So... you could try to add magnets. Should work especially well on M-track. Also, should be easy to "hide" in plain sight if your loco is modelled with "Indusi magnets"; You can then change them into real magnets. lol


When I was a teenager we had a Hornby 2-rail OO layout (actually, I still have it all in storage, one day... ...thinking about I still have the old Triang/Hornby 3-rail stuff that my brothers used to have also in storage). Hornby used to make a big thing about some of their locos have 'magnahesion' (i.e. magnets as you described). Trouble is it is also long ago that I don't recall how much difference it made but I do remember the locos 'stuck' to the track when lifting them off the rails so presumably it worked reasonably well.
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Offline aclassifier  
#16 Posted : 09 July 2019 21:32:29(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Thank you, all of you! I didn't see your replies before now! (I need to have a look at my mail settings). I will come back here and report what I finally did, some time during the summer. Øyvind
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Offline aclassifier  
#17 Posted : 09 July 2019 21:35:44(UTC)
aclassifier

Norway   
Joined: 18/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: Trondheim
Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Go to Quoted Post
First, I had problems with the traction, too. Then, I adjusted the hot shoe and everything is fine (..removed)
Here, You find my conversion report of the DC version to AC with silent pickup shoe: https://modellbauhuette....-umbau-auf-ac-und-sound/

Thanks a lot! I will certainly have a read on your blog note about adding sound and perhaps come back with questions! Øyvind
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