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Offline ajayrav  
#1 Posted : 07 June 2019 23:46:06(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Hello folks,

Does anyone have experience with Constant lighting via the Rokuhan RC02 or RC03 power packs using newer Marklin locos? I have a new BR89 with the brushless can motor (from the 81352 set) and wonder if the headlights do stay on when the engine is stopped, as seen in Rokuhan videos with their own locos.

Thanks in advance,
Ajay
Offline zscalehobo  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2019 02:36:54(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Hello folks,

Does anyone have experience with Constant lighting via the Rokuhan RC02 or RC03 power packs using newer Marklin locos? I have a new BR89 with the brushless can motor (from the 81352 set) and wonder if the headlights do stay on when the engine is stopped, as seen in Rokuhan videos with their own locos.

Thanks in advance,
Ajay


Hi Ajay:

Rokuhan's constant lighting does not work in the Marklin units as far as I know.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by zscalehobo
Offline husafreak  
#3 Posted : 11 June 2019 03:07:41(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
I’ll take some time tomorrow to check out the “constant” lighting abilities of the locos I have. I’m using Rokuhan controllers. I don’t have a new BR89 to try but it would be interesting to post my results in any case, they are not all the same. And I have put HTM LED’s in a couple of older Marklin loco’s and they operate a little differently too.
That loco of yours must be really nice, it was highly praised in reviews by Trainini and Ztrains Weekly.
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Offline ajayrav  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2019 00:39:44(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Hello folks,

Does anyone have experience with Constant lighting via the Rokuhan RC02 or RC03 power packs using newer Marklin locos? I have a new BR89 with the brushless can motor (from the 81352 set) and wonder if the headlights do stay on when the engine is stopped, as seen in Rokuhan videos with their own locos.

Thanks in advance,
Ajay


Hi Ajay:

Rokuhan's constant lighting does not work in the Marklin units as far as I know.


Thank you, Frank. My understanding was that the Rokuhan constant lighting system had trouble with older Marklin locos due to excessive current demands by the old motor. I assumed it would work on Marklin's new brushless motors with low current draw. Good to be forewarned.

Cheers,
Ajay
Offline ajayrav  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2019 00:48:04(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
I’ll take some time tomorrow to check out the “constant” lighting abilities of the locos I have. I’m using Rokuhan controllers. I don’t have a new BR89 to try but it would be interesting to post my results in any case, they are not all the same. And I have put HTM LED’s in a couple of older Marklin loco’s and they operate a little differently too.
That loco of yours must be really nice, it was highly praised in reviews by Trainini and Ztrains Weekly.


Thanks, it would great to see how the CL system plays with locos from other manufacturers... I know it works with Rohuhan locos... what else?

The Marklin coal set with the BR80 is beautiful and the little loco runs spectacularly. I'm amazed at how it creeps through MTL turnouts without stalling. The low speed starts could be smoother with my snail speed Medvend 9 volt controller, but this loco is a masterpiece. There is a Youtube video of someone who has put a decoder in it with a couple of tantalum caps... that slow speed performance is nothing short of stunning. I don't have the guts to do it myself, but if I can pay to get it done, I just might!

Excited to hear back about your experience with the Rokuhan controller...

Cheers,
Ajay
Offline husafreak  
#6 Posted : 12 June 2019 01:13:18(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
I determined that the Rokuhan RC02 controller (which operates the same as the RC03) will operate the constant lighting feature on ONLY the two Marklin loco's I own which have the original bulb lights replaced with HTM (high tech modellbahnen) LED's. I made the switch to LED's on my BR003 from the Marklin 81972 set using a HTM 7031 yellow LED and on my BR86 from the 81417 set using a white HTM 7020 LED. These lights are just fantastic and come on and off with the FWD or REV switch position selected at stop on the RC02. Unfortunately for you the HTM LED's are not to be used with Marklin's LED equipped loco's. I also own two Marklin engines with LED lighting from the factory. A Ludmilla variant "Tiger" 233 from the 81451 set and a S3/6 4-6-2 88923. With both of these locos the LED lights only come on when the throttle is advanced to move the loco. Based on that I can back up Frank's assumption that it probably won't work on your BR89. One thing that is problematic with the Rokuhan constant lighting is it can also move some loco's at idle. I have two engines which will not stay parked when the RC02 is in FWD or REV even with the throttle closed. One is a Rokuhan Shorty, it crawls along as soon as the RC02 is switched to FWD or REV, the direction switch has to be off to stop it, my new Marklin 88923 S3/6 loco moves rather fast in either FWD or REV on the RC02. So the only way to stop that loco is to wait for it to be in position and switch the RC02's FWD/STOP/REV switch to STOP. An abrupt halt or start always. And no really slow running possible. So the constant lighting circuit is delivering a bit too much juice for that S 3/6 engine to sit still.
One thing you can do with the RC02 is increase the throttle to just enough to turn on the lights but not enough to move a loco, there is a ratcheting stop on the throttle (volume knob) that limits how far off it will go, how far counterclockwise. This is to slow the loco to a stop but not to shutting off the lights. But I have found this feature to not work all that well. Every engine is different and the lights may come at different rates so it is not the same with every loco and not always repeatable.
I also have a Rokuhan BR181 DB loco which works as advertised with directional constant lighting and an AZL GP7 which also lights up in the direction of travel from the RC02, same as the Rokuhan loco.
Constant lighting at stop is a very nice feature!
I also ran all of these engines with my Snail Speed Controller. None of the loco's display lighting at a stop with the Snail Speed controller. Obviously it does not deliver any voltage at stop. It is nice to be able to slow or stop my Marklin S 3/6 88923 and Rokuhan Shorty engines when using it though!

A couple of notes. One is that my Marklin 88923 is said to have a 5 pole motor but it does not. The Marklin website and the owners manual are incorrect. It is an incredibly efficient sealed motor and can be seen in the ztrainsweekly article covering it. I do not know if this is the new Marklin "bell shaped armature" motor. But if it is then the Rokuhan controllers can move the engines at idle current.

Also I mentioned the HTM LED lights. I got mine from HTM directly and Ztrack Center. I prefer the yellow ones for old steam loco's and I think the white ones would be better for modern loco's. It takse a bit if fiddling to fit them so they do not short out against anything (like a metal body) but once you get it in position it stays there.
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Offline zscalehobo  
#7 Posted : 12 June 2019 01:40:53(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post

Hi Ajay: Rokuhan's constant lighting does not work in the Marklin units as far as I know.


Thank you, Frank. My understanding was that the Rokuhan constant lighting system had trouble with older Marklin locos due to excessive current demands by the old motor. I assumed it would work on Marklin's new brushless motors with low current draw. Good to be forewarned.

Cheers,
Ajay


I think you are mixing some details ... Rokuhan POWER packs (RC-02 & RC-03) can, on occasion, have trouble with random Marklin locos due to excessive current demands. Not necessarily related to age or 3-pole or 5-pole but can be related to:
1. Number of wheelsets
2. Does the unit have hardened oil?
3. Is the unit properly maintained?
4. Amount of pickups on the loco (copper strips touching wheels - number of wheels, etc).

The latest and greatest Marklin motors (2016 and later) should work fine on Marklin power packs as they are brushless low current units.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline husafreak  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2019 01:52:23(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area

Thank you, Frank. My understanding was that the Rokuhan constant lighting system had trouble with older Marklin locos due to excessive current demands by the old motor. I assumed it would work on Marklin's new brushless motors with low current draw. Good to be forewarned.

Cheers,
Ajay


I have quite a bit of experience with this now. You are referring to the over current protection feature of the RC02/03 being a bit low for Marklin 3/5 pole motors and it is. Here are 3 scenarios:
Marklin 88923 4-6-2 with tender, sealed motor. Moves right along with RC02 throttle closed, yikes!, moves too fast at 9:00 position. Does not ever trip controller.
Marklin BR86 2-8-2 5 pole motor. Moves slowly at 10:00 and fast at 2:00. Occasionally trips controller.
Marklin V60 0-6-0 5 pole motor. Moves slowly at 1:00 and fast at 2:00. Regularly trips controller.
So obviously that little V60 is drawing a lot of current if it doesn't even start to move until 1:00 on the throttle dial! But the bottom line seems to be that if an older Marklin loco is drawing enough current to trip the RC02 then the loco needs attention. I mean maintenance. In just about every instance just spinning it with a 9 volt battery on my wheel cleaner or cleaning the track or a pinhead sized drop of oil and it will run well again for days. I have determined that a brush replacement (my BR86 and V60) or other maintenance (like a poor contact at the CB of my Ludmilla) was necessary due to the trips. These were all "new" loco's that would run rough with my Snail Speed controller but trip the Rokuhan more often than I could abide. So I guess i like to hear what my Rokuhan controller is telling me ;)
I don't think it has anything to do with the constant lighting system. The constant lighting system just feeds a tiny DC voltage to the loco with the throttle closed. I think the HTM LED circuit is able to collect this current as and light the LED, same in the Rokuhan and AZL locos. But the Marklin factory LED for some reason does not. It might be a communication thing between the loco and the RC02 also. The RC02 is "smart" and it may "see" the LED's in some locos and not others. But that is a WAG on my part. I know the Snail Speed controller is a pulse type controller and delivers full voltage in various length pulses, so when its throttle is in idle nothing goes out to the loco.
Offline husafreak  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2019 02:02:28(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
Of course, any engine will trip the RC02 if there is a problem with it. I have gone for many, many hours of operation with nary a trip. And the RC02/03 is the only controller I would ever trust to run my trains while I walked away for a minute!
In my short experience the Snail Speed controller has its own issues too. Abrupt starts are one you mentioned. And usually if I am running my trains at "snail speed" with that controller and a train stops then the only way to get it going again is to give the engine a push. So that is kind of annoying.
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Offline ajayrav  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2019 04:09:45(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post

Hi Ajay: Rokuhan's constant lighting does not work in the Marklin units as far as I know.


I think you are mixing some details ... Rokuhan POWER packs (RC-02 & RC-03) can, on occasion, have trouble with random Marklin locos due to excessive current demands. Not necessarily related to age or 3-pole or 5-pole but can be related to:

The latest and greatest Marklin motors (2016 and later) should work fine on Marklin power packs as they are brushless low current units.


Sorry I wasn’t clear. What I meant was whether the CL function on Rokuhan power packs would work with newer Marklin locos such as the BR 80 in the 81352 set. I would love to have headlights on when the loco is stopped. Looks like that may not possible with the RC02 as the loco might start moving with the AC current required for CL.

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline ajayrav  
#11 Posted : 12 June 2019 17:52:39(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
Of course, any engine will trip the RC02 if there is a problem with it. I have gone for many, many hours of operation with nary a trip. And the RC02/03 is the only controller I would ever trust to run my trains while I walked away for a minute!
In my short experience the Snail Speed controller has its own issues too. Abrupt starts are one you mentioned. And usually if I am running my trains at "snail speed" with that controller and a train stops then the only way to get it going again is to give the engine a push. So that is kind of annoying.


If the starts are smoother using the RC02, I will get one... the bulk of my locos are AZL. The BR80 is my only German outline loco...but I had to have it because it is so tiny and runs amazingly well. My intention is to have a couple of small diorama style layouts, so an extra power pack wouldn't hurt...

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline husafreak  
#12 Posted : 12 June 2019 18:27:53(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
You’ll be happy with it for sure running AZL and getting the constant lighting.
Let us know how it works with your little Marklin. I’m very interested to know if it will stay put at what I’m calling idle, meaning the direction switch is in FWD or REV with the throttle knob closed.
Offline ajayrav  
#13 Posted : 13 June 2019 04:23:45(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Will keep you posted on how the BR80 gets along with the Rokuhan...

Thanks,
Ajay
Offline husafreak  
#14 Posted : 13 June 2019 05:53:20(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
In the interest of full disclosure I had issue again with my V60 0-6-0 again yesterday. Aye Carumba! This little loco has been my nemesis, every time I work on it I think it is finally perfect but then it goes south again. So yesterday it was running a lot and started acting up after my posts. Then it quit completely. Even 9V to the wheels would not spin it... I did a full teardown and realized that the magnet assembly E207650 on this 5 pole motor is a PRESS fit onto the cast metal frame. This was a surprise to me. And it was not fully pressed in place. I easily slipped my jewelers flat screwdriver into the space that should have been closed to pry up the magnet housing. If you watch the video linked below note that the V60 under work has screws to hold the motor in place, I am not happy that Marklin considered a press fit adequate. I also found more black grime around the new brushes and commutator. I had recently installed new brushes (sourced from zscalehobo) when the loco ran poorly out of the box and I found a broken motor brush in it. The dealer I bought this set 81972 from assured me it was NOS but you have to wonder if a previous owner had returned it when they found the loco defective. Since it started running poorly yesterday and showed more grime I believe there was still a tiny bit more HOS working its way out. HOS is an interesting phenomenon. I think it sometimes takes more than one cleaning to get it all out. I think it sometimes takes running time to work the stubborn oil film out. And if you see a tiny puff of smoke coming from your just cleaned loco then I think that is also HOS working its way out. Just my 2cents. Anyway, after complete disassembly and cleaning, including some abrasive materials made for cleaning commutators and contacts (left over from RC car racing days) and firmly pressing the magnet housing into place I finished the rebuild. The most difficult part is easily repositioning the contacts inside the wheels and "timing" the gearing so that the piece with the elongated holes that connects the driving wheels always has free play. Imagine a tiny puzzle that keeps moving while you try to work with it! But I had a helper in this case which is a You Tube video "8864 Take-Apart"
. In the end having this video gave me confidence to disassemble the gearing but also taught me that trial and error works too, just don't think you are done until the connecting rods have free play at every position of wheel rotation. Much easier said than done!
So the little V60 is running well again. It is no more efficient than it was but I'm thinking I may have finally solved this puzzle, fingers crossed, as the magnet assembly is also the upper bearing for the commutator and excessive play or poor alignment would surely have a negative effect. I could have fixed this loco without disassembling the gears but I only know that now looking back. For now it is purring along nicely :)
I know some of this is a bit "off topic" but it is nice to share with other zscalers. I could tell my wife all this but it is just not the same, LOL. If your Rokuhan controller is tripping then something is not right with your loco, end of story.
Offline ajayrav  
#15 Posted : 13 June 2019 19:09:16(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Thanks for posting that. I'm a relative newbie to Marklin locos, but have decided I will only buy Marklin locos with the new brushless can motor. They run smoothly and quietly, just like my AZL locos. The older Marklin locos I have seen are really loud in comparison.

Thanks,
Ajay

Offline husafreak  
#16 Posted : 13 June 2019 21:11:03(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
Ah, luckily I enjoy working on them ;)
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 14 June 2019 11:14:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,499
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
[...] but have decided I will only buy Marklin locos with the new brushless can motor.
I don't think they use brushless motors anymore (and AFAIK they only used them for H0 gauge).
Which models do you refer to?
Some recent "Märklin" models are AZL models in Märklin boxes.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline husafreak  
#18 Posted : 14 June 2019 11:47:06(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
Good point. I was wondering about the motors Marklin calls “bell shaped armature” they appear to be two wire motors and brushless motors are three wires with a circuit needed to time the electrical pulses. I just think the new bell shaped armature motors are sealed can modern motors. They are obviously much more efficient but maybe not more powerful or with more torque. Since they are sealed, quiet, and use less current they are preferable to the open architecture 3 and 5 pole motors but when they wear out or bind up from inactivity (has Marklin switched to better oil?) a rebuild will require a motor replacement requiring more work and expense then a quick brush replacement for small money.
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 14 June 2019 11:58:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,499
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
“bell shaped armature”
Typically these are maintenance-free motors with metal brushes that cannot be replaced, but should last longer than the coal brushes of cheap can motors.
They are coreless motors and that makes them expensive, but they are not brushless.

Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
has Marklin switched to better oil?
I think that oil problem was a thing of the ’90s and rolling stock from the last 15 years should be safe (just like shelf queens from the ’80s and earlier).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline ajayrav  
#20 Posted : 14 June 2019 17:48:24(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ajayrav Go to Quoted Post
[...] but have decided I will only buy Marklin locos with the new brushless can motor.
I don't think they use brushless motors anymore (and AFAIK they only used them for H0 gauge).
Which models do you refer to?
Some recent "Märklin" models are AZL models in Märklin boxes.



Ah, when I said brushless I meant one without carbon brushes. Sorry for the confusion.

Ajay

Offline ajayrav  
#21 Posted : 18 June 2019 17:43:01(UTC)
ajayrav

United States   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: California, San Francisco
So I tried the Rokuhan RC02 with the BR80 and the loco runs at a fair clip with the dial at the lowest position. The lights don't come on till a fairly high speed. Too bad. My snail speed controller has a fairly abrupt start, but the lights are on at at a low speed. The RC02 constant lighting also does not work with my AZL GP7 with the Faulhaber motor. Will try my other locos this weekend.

Maybe I need to find a decoder installation service that can install a decoder like this... I know I'm too chicken to do it myself...



Thanks,
Ajay
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Offline husafreak  
#22 Posted : 19 June 2019 00:15:26(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 64
Location: California, Bay Area
Ah, that is very weird that the lights on your AZL GP7 don’t come on at a stop with the RC02 as mine do... My AZL GP7 is a UP model, also with the Faulhaber motor. it is also very disturbing that the new Marklin motors don’t work correctly with the Rokuhan controllers. That’s a real problem now. My only Marklin loco with the new motor moves much faster than your BR80.
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