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Offline LongHairedDavid  
#1 Posted : 06 June 2019 14:08:14(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: England, Ipswich
Hi Everyone

I have just received the latest Marklin newsletter and there is a complex article in there about brake modules and M84s. I have been a programmer for 30 odd years and also understand a good bit about electronics but this article was opaque to me.

This is what I picked up from it - I have one signal on my layout and it protects a switch on the main loop. The signal controls an isolated section to stop any train when the signal is at Red. The article points out that this results in a dead stop and a loss of power. It indicates that there is a way to make this work where the loco stops but the sound and lights keep going.

Can anyone explain to me how I would achieve this?

Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:08:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,451
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Well I've used to use signals and a universal relay and added a diode (resistor) between the digital signal, which leaves enough power to keep the sound and functions going but you couldn't change it while the train was in a braking section.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline gwolski  
#3 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:15:29(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Well I've used to use signals and a universal relay and added a diode (resistor) between the digital signal, which leaves enough power to keep the sound and functions going but you couldn't change it while the train was in a braking section.

John


Here's a post on this site which discusses the digital braking options.

https://www.marklin-user...gital/breakmoduleLW.html

I'd also like to add that ESU decoders support ABC Braking and that ESU has just released an ABC Braking section adapter for SwitchPilot Extension modules which generates the asymmetric braking signal. The braking can be turned on and off digitally and power remains on the section so sounds and the like can continue to function.

Cheers!

Gene
Gene Wolski
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2019 15:27:51(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,994
you are right, fundamentally it is flawed logic. We have digital trains that can be controlled with software. We have sensors to know where the trains are.
It is a failure to understand that this is something that can and should be done via software, this is why we have digital trains, so that we can control them with software.

https://cabin-layout.mix...11/computer-control.html

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline gwolski  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2019 16:37:17(UTC)
gwolski

United States   
Joined: 17/12/2001(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Central Virginia
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
you are right, fundamentally it is flawed logic. We have digital trains that can be controlled with software. We have sensors to know where the trains are.
It is a failure to understand that this is something that can and should be done via software, this is why we have digital trains, so that we can control them with software.

https://cabin-layout.mix...11/computer-control.html



Would you say the fundamental problem is lack of ability to determine train location. We don't really know which train is where on the tracks so we divide the track into blocks. Even with software control, we still don't REALLY know what train is where unless we're using RailCom or similar feedback. Even then, all we can do is say train X is in block Y. We have to resort to contact switches or other detectors to know exactly where we are.

I think the future is (something like) the Indoor Positions System and GameOnTrack technology. Pretty impressive stuff.

Gene
Gene Wolski
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by gwolski
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2019 17:29:02(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,994
Originally Posted by: gwolski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
you are right, fundamentally it is flawed logic. We have digital trains that can be controlled with software. We have sensors to know where the trains are.
It is a failure to understand that this is something that can and should be done via software, this is why we have digital trains, so that we can control them with software.

https://cabin-layout.mix...11/computer-control.html



Would you say the fundamental problem is lack of ability to determine train location. We don't really know which train is where on the tracks so we divide the track into blocks. Even with software control, we still don't REALLY know what train is where unless we're using RailCom or similar feedback. Even then, all we can do is say train X is in block Y. We have to resort to contact switches or other detectors to know exactly where we are.

I think the future is (something like) the Indoor Positions System and GameOnTrack technology. Pretty impressive stuff.

Gene


No, knowing where the trains are is fairly trivial, and using contacts is the simple way of implementing it, not something we have to 'resort to'.
Using point detection instead of occupancy allows the software to know the leading edge of the train to whatever accuracy is desired. Contact switches themselves are cheap (almost zero cost if one simply makes cuts in the rails), plus the cost of the feedback port.

Accurate knowledge of what trains are where has been possible with the s88 module since Märklin released the digital system in the 1980s.

The reason it works is because if you send a train from A to B down a track, and a sensor at point B indicates a train has arrived, it has to be that train.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline Jabez  
#7 Posted : 07 June 2019 01:14:02(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 538
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: LongHairedDavid Go to Quoted Post
It indicates that there is a way to make this work where the loco stops but the sound and lights keep going.

Can anyone explain to me how I would achieve this?



Well the short answer is to download and read the Maerklin braking module manual
https://static.maerklin....16cc0817b01552900494.pdf
The Viessman braking module does the same job and is probably a bit less expensive.
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Jabez
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