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Offline BombasPC  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2019 11:29:08(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
Hi all, i need some support with an old digital Loco as I am new to Marklin Digital and I am not sure what i should expect.
I have a Marklin starter kit with Mobile Station 2 (the black one) and an MFX Loco and it works as it should.
Recently i purchased an used Marklin BR 361 loco with reference 3631 in the box as also the box mentions “digital H0”.
Does it means that the Loco is stock Digital? Or it only means that is ready for digital?
I am asking this because the Loco doesn’t run in my digital layout with mobile stations 2 neither I am able to have it found by the mobile station. If I do a manual setup of the loco it doesn’t work either. When I look inside the Loco I can’t any jumpers to set the digital address, hence I m assuming the Loco is not Digitial. Am I right?

I also noticed that the old Loco warranty paper has a number on it that doesn’t match with any sequence of the printed serial number in the Loco, should it match?

I suspect that the Loco is not Digital and the Box, wich mentions Digital H0, is not from the Loco that I purchased despite the fact that the Loco looks like 3631. After some search I found the 3131 to be very similiar to 3631 wich is not Digital, could it be the case that I have the 3131 with a box from the 3631?

Any help would be appreciated
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2019 12:14:13(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,126
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post
Hi all, i need some support with an old digital Loco as I am new to Marklin Digital and I am not sure what i should expect.
I have a Marklin starter kit with Mobile Station 2 (the black one) and an MFX Loco and it works as it should.
Recently i purchased an used Marklin BR 361 loco with reference 3631 in the box as also the box mentions “digital H0”.
Does it means that the Loco is stock Digital? Or it only means that is ready for digital?

This loco is factory-equipped with digital and was made between 1990 and 1993. Details can be found here: 3631
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post

I am asking this because the Loco doesn’t run in my digital layout with mobile stations 2 neither I am able to have it found by the mobile station. If I do a manual setup of the loco it doesn’t work either. When I look inside the Loco I can’t any jumpers to set the digital address, hence I m assuming the Loco is not Digitial. Am I right?

This loco is probably fitted with microswitches for the address. You probably need to read / change the address and enter it also on your MS2. If it is not the loco has been modified or the reference is not the good one. Pictures of the inside would help.
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post


I also noticed that the old Loco warranty paper has a number on it that doesn’t match with any sequence of the printed serial number in the Loco, should it match?

The warranty paper should bear the same number but anyway it is long gone.
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post


I suspect that the Loco is not Digital and the Box, wich mentions Digital H0, is not from the Loco that I purchased despite the fact that the Loco looks like 3631. After some search I found the 3131 to be very similiar to 3631 wich is not Digital, could it be the case that I have the 3131 with a box from the 3631?

Any help would be appreciated

The loco is very simple to open (one single screw on the roof). If you see a black thing with mouse switches, it is digital. Depending on the decoder it should also operate with a transformer
Cheers

Jean
Offline JWO  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2019 12:24:24(UTC)
JWO

Netherlands   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Friesland
If it is analog it would run full speed on a digital layout. Maybe you can post a photo of the inside?
Offline BombasPC  
#4 Posted : 25 April 2019 12:53:38(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
Thank you for your quick answer.

Ho do I paste images here? Smile

I found it.


Offline thomasm  
#5 Posted : 25 April 2019 14:09:50(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
As far as i can tell from these images, that loco is not digital, it is pure analoug. looks to like it is an old v60?

.thomas
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
Offline JWO  
#6 Posted : 25 April 2019 15:22:37(UTC)
JWO

Netherlands   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Friesland
The loco in the pictures is not a 3631, maybe a 3131 it is very similar to the one on this forum: https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=99989

It can however be converted to digital using a suitable decoder. The cheapest way to do this is to replace the relay with a delta decoder.
Offline BombasPC  
#7 Posted : 25 April 2019 19:31:54(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
thank you for your support.
To convert to digital is it something that can I do at home?
And do you have any reference of the digital decoder that I could use?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 25 April 2019 20:02:58(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,126
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post
thank you for your support.
To convert to digital is it something that can I do at home?
And do you have any reference of the digital decoder that I could use?


Hi
You need a soldering iron (for electronics) and a decoder.
You have two possibilities:
- using a simplified decoder if you keep the motor and using a Uhlenbrock decoder 75100 or equivalent.
- using a more sophisticated decoder (Like Märklin 60972) but changing the motor (small flat collector type at present to be replaced with Märklin 60943)
The transformation requires some habit of wiring, soldering and patience
Bonne chance

Jean
Offline ktsolias  
#9 Posted : 25 April 2019 20:04:53(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Hi
To convert at home depends on your skills, and knowledge of Marklin locos

The conversion parts needed are

60943 Motor
60972 decoder without sound
60976 decoder with sound

Sorry I have to say that will be a bit difficult for you to do the conversion as you don't look that you have any knowledge, even to recognize if the loco is analog or digital.

By the way the loco must be an old V60 3065 with TELEX couplers.

Regards

Costas
Offline BombasPC  
#10 Posted : 25 April 2019 20:23:07(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
you are right!!! :) I will not be able to do it :)
The exterior seems the same as the 3131, could it also be?

Please help with a few more questions,
and what are the Telex couplers?

To make it digital do I need to replace the motor?
and the decoders would cost around what value?

thank you
Offline mvd71  
#11 Posted : 25 April 2019 21:26:05(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Auckland,
Marklins new 60906 decoder would be a good option for it. No need to change the motor then.
Offline JWO  
#12 Posted : 25 April 2019 21:32:43(UTC)
JWO

Netherlands   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Friesland
Telex couplers are remote controllable couplers for easy shunting.

Your loco has an AC motor, so you need a decoder for an AC motor.

You can optionally convert it to a DC motor for better running characteristics, but then you also need a decoder for a DC motor.

Simple decoders will cost around 20-30 euro.
Offline BombasPC  
#13 Posted : 25 April 2019 22:04:51(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
sorry for the stupid question, but Marklin isn't AC? If I change it to DC it will not run anymore in Marklin tracks, right?
Offline ktsolias  
#14 Posted : 25 April 2019 22:23:49(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Modern decoders can run on AC, DC or Digital either MM or DCC

Is the decoder who gives current to the motor not the truck in digital.

The digital current is not an AC current but a digital format, in which the information is encoded on the current....

Costas
Offline dickinsonj  
#15 Posted : 26 April 2019 16:42:29(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post
sorry for the stupid question, but Marklin isn't AC? If I change it to DC it will not run anymore in Marklin tracks, right?


A easily confused aspect of Märklin's system for newbies. All Märklin track power is AC, just as it has always been. With digital the voltages are a little different and have an information signal component but otherwise are pretty much the same and are still AC.

The older motors in Märklin locos ran on AC as well and if not modified they need a decoder that supplies AC to the motor. Most modern decoders supply DC to the motors and DC motors run better in this application than AC ones do in most cases. So the decoder receives AC from the booster and then supplies DC to the loco motor.

If you don't want to update the motor to DC - basically just replacing the motor coils with a permanent magnet - then you are in luck because they have recently introduced a decoder just for that use - item #60906 as Michael pointed out.

I know that all of this can be intimidating but it is doable and once you do a conversion you will know ever so much more about how all of the magic works. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 26 April 2019 17:01:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
The older motors in Märklin locos ran on AC as well and if not modified they need a decoder that supplies AC to the motor.
No, they are AC/DC motors that work fine with DC. All decoders I know supply those motors with DC. Any decoder I know can be used to power them as long as load regulation can be turned off.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline dickinsonj  
#17 Posted : 26 April 2019 17:11:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
The older motors in Märklin locos ran on AC as well and if not modified they need a decoder that supplies AC to the motor.
No, they are AC/DC motors that work fine with DC. All decoders I know supply those motors with DC. Any decoder I know can be used to power them as long as load regulation can be turned off.


Quite true Tom. The only drawback to using the old motors without changing anything is the load regulation issue. I was just trying to keep it simple for someone new to the whole system but you are right, all decoders supply DC to the motor, where in analog it was AC - which was what I intended to say in the first place.

Thanks for keeping me honest.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Rwill  
#18 Posted : 26 April 2019 17:47:45(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Although I have the greatest respect and admiration for the members of the forum who enjoy and find great satisfaction in taking older loks and converting them to digital I do worry about the many enquiries we get from people who have no knowledge and understanding of digital and digital control. We send then off to buy motor kit x and decoder kit y. WE assume they have soldering irons and etc and are competent in their use on electronic pieces. We forget to mention that the lamps may need changing too and maybe a few more repairs as well. My advice would be search out the best price on a brand new with warranty 37861 for circa 210 Euros and you will have a very cute V60 -MFX, lights, sound and telex and a couple more innovative features. I expect to be ignored or rubbished but it is my opinion
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Rwill
Offline dickinsonj  
#19 Posted : 26 April 2019 18:13:38(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
My advice would be search out the best price on a brand new with warranty 37861 for circa 210 Euros and you will have a very cute V60 -MFX, lights, sound and telex and a couple more innovative features. I expect to be ignored or rubbished but it is my opinion


No rubbish from me! That is actually good advice for someone new to all of this because there is so much to learn when you first dive into this stuff. If you do figure out how to do the upgrades though you will learn a whole lot in the process. If not you will have a non functional loco and a pile of wasted new parts.

I also agree about a 37861, which is a great value with all of the features, a warranty and sound for a pretty decent price.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 26 April 2019 19:21:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Although I have the greatest respect and admiration for the members of the forum who enjoy and find great satisfaction in taking older loks and converting them to digital I do worry about the many enquiries we get from people who have no knowledge and understanding of digital and digital control. We send then off to buy motor kit x and decoder kit y. WE assume they have soldering irons and etc and are competent in their use on electronic pieces. We forget to mention that the lamps may need changing too and maybe a few more repairs as well. My advice would be search out the best price on a brand new with warranty 37861 for circa 210 Euros and you will have a very cute V60 -MFX, lights, sound and telex and a couple more innovative features. I expect to be ignored or rubbished but it is my opinion


Very sound advice!

Too often we expect absolute beginners to take an unfamiliar loco apart, buy all the right bits to upgrade it, and have all the skills to do the work!

I have to admit that the first time I nervously waved a soldering iron at a much loved old analogue locomotive my hands were shaking, and I'm an Electronics Engineer by profession!

I would advise those who have not learnt the skills required to either have the work done by qualified people or, as suggested above, leave the analogue locos alone and buy a new digital one.

If you have the luck to be a member of a local model railway club you may also try to get someone there to teach you how it's done.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline BombasPC  
#21 Posted : 27 April 2019 00:42:59(UTC)
BombasPC

Portugal   
Joined: 25/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: Lisbon
Thank you for all your comments.

I will look for new locos already mfx compatible, however I would also like to try and learn how to convert my old loco. I am not saying that I would do it myself 😊 but at least i want to assess the complexity and the challenge of doing it 😊

Would you please guide me is some basic tutorials to start learning it? There is always a first time...😊
Offline dickinsonj  
#22 Posted : 27 April 2019 01:22:02(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,684
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: BombasPC Go to Quoted Post

Would you please guide me is some basic tutorials to start learning it? There is always a first time...😊

You should be able to find lots of videos about doing a digital conversion by searching on youTube, where things like that are always posted anyway. Cool

That would give you an idea whether you think that you can handle doing a simple conversion or not, where the major skills needed are being inquisitive and able to solder. ThumpUp

Some of the videos are quite good and would provide enough to get started if it seems doable or near doable in my case. I can read about something or watch the videos for hours/days and I still never really learn how to do it until I jump in and try doing it for real. Yeah, well like any first time I guess. BigGrin

And then when I get in over my head and break things the good people here will always straighten me out and help me get back on track. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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