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Offline Trainiac  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2019 21:32:35(UTC)
Trainiac

Sweden   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Södermanlands län



The track has just been cleaned but the locomotive doesn’t move until quite a bit of power is applied
It’s also a bit noisy and it’s been a while since the last time I operated it

Are these typical signs of hardened oil syndrome?

Edited by user 23 February 2019 13:34:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards
Erik
———
Mainly German trains era II-III
Collection consists of Z scale, digital H0 scale, G scale and T Gauge trains (they are sorted by collection size so my main focus is on Z scale)
Take a look at my Instagram:maerklin_z
Offline Elsleuth1  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2019 22:56:52(UTC)
Elsleuth1

United States   
Joined: 23/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 99
Turn the loco upside down and with your thumbs turn the drive wheels to see if your armature is turning freely. It shouldn't bind at all.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Elsleuth1
Offline zscalehobo  
#3 Posted : 22 February 2019 23:43:18(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
First thing, turn on the lights in the room so we can see. Was it just me or was the video really dark?

Second thing, I've never been able to turn a Z SCALE steam locomotive's drive wheels by hand from the bottom of the locomotive ... please don't try this as you might bend the push-rods and then really foul things up.

Might be brushes too tight or were stuck to the armature.

Does it continue doing this kind of sluggish start or is it getting better through continued usage?

Hardened Oil Syndrom (aka HoS) is usually marked by the "rocking motion" observed in this video:
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by zscalehobo
Offline Trainiac  
#4 Posted : 23 February 2019 00:42:36(UTC)
Trainiac

Sweden   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Södermanlands län
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
First thing, turn on the lights in the room so we can see. Was it just me or was the video really dark?

Sorry about that
Initially the video was filmed with flash on my phone, but it suddenly turned off and the room appeared to be dark.

But enough about that, I will reupload the video with better lighting in about 10-12 hours

Quote:

Second thing, I've never been able to turn a Z SCALE steam locomotive's drive wheels by hand from the bottom of the locomotive ... please don't try this as you might bend the push-rods and then really foul things up.

Couldn’t the wheels be turned just a little bit (about 1 mm or 1/25 inch) to check if the push-rods are properly aligned?

Quote:
Might be brushes too tight or were stuck to the armature.

I’ll take a look at the brushes

Quote:
Does it continue doing this kind of sluggish start or is it getting better through continued usage?

I had been running it back and forwards a few times before I recorded the video.
It starts like that but I am able to slow it down to normal speed

Also; I thought HoS could be linked to any issue with the running characteristics of the locomotive
Regards
Erik
———
Mainly German trains era II-III
Collection consists of Z scale, digital H0 scale, G scale and T Gauge trains (they are sorted by collection size so my main focus is on Z scale)
Take a look at my Instagram:maerklin_z
Offline zscalehobo  
#5 Posted : 23 February 2019 03:52:08(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 134
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
If anything, I gently try to move the wheels side-to-side to see if it's HOS in the gears in the belly.

Timing can be checked via the connecting rods that connect axle-to-axle. If they can move freely, you're timed properly. But, no, I don't think you can rotate the wheels at all. Best bet is to move the motor from the back if you're going to try to go that route of moving something in the gears. Gently push it with a blunt toothpick.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Trainiac  
#6 Posted : 23 February 2019 13:50:48(UTC)
Trainiac

Sweden   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Södermanlands län
I have reuploaded the video, the locomotive started to move earlier but the problem persists when it’s moving backwards. It even stopped dead on the track, probably due to dirty track

I also recorded a close-up to capture the noise of the locomotive

Here is a list of things I did before recording the video:
- I took the wheels out and put them back in
- I tried to align them as best I could
- I checked the connecting rods and they moved freely
- I cleaned the track
- Then I ran the locomotive back and forth about 10 times
Regards
Erik
———
Mainly German trains era II-III
Collection consists of Z scale, digital H0 scale, G scale and T Gauge trains (they are sorted by collection size so my main focus is on Z scale)
Take a look at my Instagram:maerklin_z
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 23 February 2019 15:54:08(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,259
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Elsleuth1 Go to Quoted Post
Turn the loco upside down and with your thumbs turn the drive wheels to see if your armature is turning freely. It shouldn't bind at all.

Hi
I believe this good only on straight gears and when the brushes have been removed.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 23 February 2019 17:25:39(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,854
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Elsleuth1 Go to Quoted Post
Turn the loco upside down and with your thumbs turn the drive wheels to see if your armature is turning freely. It shouldn't bind at all.

Hi
I believe this good only on straight gears and when the brushes have been removed.
Cheers
Jean

Guys!!!Crying Crying Crying Scared Scared Scared ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown
This is Z-scale!!!!
The locos all have a worm drive!!
Impossible to turn the wheels by hand.

Very simple solution to the problem
1° take the body off the loco
2° drop a couple of lighter fluid (aka ZIPPO) in the gears, especially on the worm
3° wait a few minutes until the fluid has evaporated, dried up
4° repeat the operation, then using a piece of bristol cardboard that you slide between the inside of the wheels and the bronze pick up contact blades clear up any contamination there.
The bristol should come perfectly clean . Wait that the lighter fluid dries up
5° test run the lok. If better, now one **little** drop of oil in each opening where you can see the gear. Use a needle, so you really have a single tiny drop on each spot. Avoid putting oil on the contacts!!

Should be running like new now.

Hope this helps!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline strummer  
#9 Posted : 23 February 2019 17:45:58(UTC)
strummer

United States   
Joined: 03/08/2017(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Oregon, Waldport
In my own (very limited) experience with Marklin Z scale: all 4 (3 steam, one diesel) of my Marklin engines were purchased used: all were in "like new" condition. They all had "HOS"; they would barely move at all; none of them ran as well as your loco in the video, so it was necessary to take them down and give them a complete cleaning.

Since then, all 4 run run beautifully, even after long periods of inactivity.

If there's one thing I've learned it's that a properly tuned Marklin engine will run very quietly; the noise yours is making sounds to me like a gearing issue.

In your case, since this does run, I think you have the wheels back in "sync" correctly. I'd look next at the gear that engages the motor's worm and make sure that gear is moving freely. I mention this because that was the issue I had with my #8899; even after cleaning everything (I thought), I was still having an issue similar to yours. That gear, being tucked up well inside the frame, was a little hard to get to and needed extra attention to get it to the point where it would move freely. Once that gear was free, it ran like a top.

Best of luck and let us know what you find...

Mark in Oregon

Edited by user 24 February 2019 05:21:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by strummer
Offline Trainiac  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2019 22:04:43(UTC)
Trainiac

Sweden   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Södermanlands län
Thank you Jacques, I might give that a try

Also, thank you Mark, I will take a look at that and keep you posted
Regards
Erik
———
Mainly German trains era II-III
Collection consists of Z scale, digital H0 scale, G scale and T Gauge trains (they are sorted by collection size so my main focus is on Z scale)
Take a look at my Instagram:maerklin_z
Offline Carim  
#11 Posted : 24 February 2019 00:28:03(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: London
Hi Erik,

Just as an aside, are you using a high frequency track cleaner? I thought that these interfere with the radio/TV interference suppression capacitor on the motors of engines and feeder tracks. Have you noticed any adverse effects from using it?

Thanks,
Carim
Offline Trainiac  
#12 Posted : 24 February 2019 12:49:25(UTC)
Trainiac

Sweden   
Joined: 18/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: Södermanlands län
Hello Carim,

Yes I’ve been using a high frequency track cleaner for a while and it’s working really well. It doesn’t work with the capacitors in the feeder tracks, so I’ve had to remove them.

It is usually not active unless there is any dirt on the track:

Gaugemaster HF-2 manual wrote:
When resistance, due to poor contact and above a preset level is detected the high frequency signal is automatically turned on, ionising the air gap between rail and conducting locomotive wheel and burning of the dirt and residue. When contact is restored the high frequency signal is turned off.


It wasn’t plugged in when I recorded the video because I wanted the locomotive to run without any modifications to anything so a correct analysis could be made
Regards
Erik
———
Mainly German trains era II-III
Collection consists of Z scale, digital H0 scale, G scale and T Gauge trains (they are sorted by collection size so my main focus is on Z scale)
Take a look at my Instagram:maerklin_z
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Trainiac
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 25 February 2019 14:07:31(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,361
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Elsleuth1 Go to Quoted Post
Turn the loco upside down and with your thumbs turn the drive wheels to see if your armature is turning freely. It shouldn't bind at all.

Hi
I believe this good only on straight gears and when the brushes have been removed.
Cheers
Jean

Guys!!!Crying Crying Crying Scared Scared Scared ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown
This is Z-scale!!!!
The locos all have a worm drive!!
Impossible to turn the wheels by hand.

Very simple solution to the problem
1° take the body off the loco
2° drop a couple of lighter fluid (aka ZIPPO) in the gears, especially on the worm
3° wait a few minutes until the fluid has evaporated, dried up
4° repeat the operation, then using a piece of bristol cardboard that you slide between the inside of the wheels and the bronze pick up contact blades clear up any contamination there.
The bristol should come perfectly clean . Wait that the lighter fluid dries up
5° test run the lok. If better, now one **little** drop of oil in each opening where you can see the gear. Use a needle, so you really have a single tiny drop on each spot. Avoid putting oil on the contacts!!

Should be running like new now.

Hope this helps!


Jacques thanks to come to the rescue, when one looks closer at the video you can notice the couplers aren't HO nor are the turnouts.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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