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Offline orionstars  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2019 04:11:15(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
I have just received a new Marklin loco (37484) with an MFX decoder.

But I only have M-track and an older controller. Not white but blue.

I’ve read I can run this on an Analogue setup but do I need to do something special to do so? Given the details above?

Thanks for the help!
Pete
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Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2019 06:14:22(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Pete,

Yes - replace the older type blue transformer with a newer type white one.

The reverse pulse on the older types transformer can/may destroy the decoder.

Once you have a newer transformer you can safely run a digitale loco on an analogue layout and you will most likely noticed a better motor performance than what you are used to with analogue locos.

Note that some functions/output will be permanently on when running a digitale loco in analogue mode, so if it has smoke generator it will give power to it constantly (it’s not recommended to run smoke detectors dry for prolonged periods).

PS: if you are very keen to run your new loco for a test run, you can use the old blue transformer, but just make sure you don’t activate the reverse function!

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline DigitalNZ  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2019 07:52:46(UTC)
DigitalNZ

New Zealand   
Joined: 13/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Hi Pete,

Nice loco - I'm thinking of getting one of those myself!

I fully second what Lasse says - The old transformers can send out a lot more power than digital electronics can handle! (I should get my oscilloscope out and see how clean the power output of an older Marklin trafo is/not some day)

There are some good comments in this post from last year which explain it better than I can: https://www.marklin-user...--white-transformer-32Va

I've got my own story to tell about the dangers of using old transformers from my school days. I plugged in an isolating transformer to help eliminate a grounding problem in our hall at an assembly (the All Blacks (NZ's national rugby team who are gods to most Kiwis) were coming and as always I had 5 mins notice) to get everything going.

This old trafo must have had an internal short in it because as soon as I turned the power on it tripped the fuses in the building killing power to the sound system, lighting desk, projector etc... Fortunately the only thing that was damaged that day was my sense of pride having to walk through a crowd of 1,200 people to where the fuse board was. At least they saw me as the guy who got things working... BigGrin
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2019 09:34:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post
I’ve read I can run this on an Analogue setup but do I need to do something special to do so? Given the details above?
Simple answer: RTFM - read the fancy manual.

Do not use blue transformers if the loco manual indicates that a 6646/6647 must be used.

Old decoders and new decoders are not sensitive to voltages above 40 V. For a while decoders had a limit of 40 V.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline orionstars  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2019 15:37:32(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
A quick reply from my phone:

Thank you everyone!
Offline TEEWolf  
#6 Posted : 26 January 2019 04:20:48(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post
I have just received a new Marklin loco (37484) with an MFX decoder.

But I only have M-track and an older controller. Not white but blue.

I’ve read I can run this on an Analogue setup but do I need to do something special to do so? Given the details above?

Thanks for the help!
Pete


Hello Pete,

here is the information from Märklin. Technical tip no. 207
"Märklin digital locomotives in analogue mode with alternating voltage"

and answers the question "Is an operation of Märklin digital locomotives with an analogue alternating current mobile unit possible?"

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-207.pdf

Here you get a helpful translating software

https://www.deepl.com/tr...C3%A4t%0Am%C3%B6glich%3F

The major point is to find out which decoder is in your loco. You shall find the information in the loco's manual. If it is an old decoder, it can be blown off in analogue mode.

Regards

TEEWolf
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 26 January 2019 09:07:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Views messages in topic : 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
If it is an old decoder, it can be blown off in analogue mode.
No, old decoders can handle those higher voltages.
The old decoders were introduced when there were only blue transformers around.
Only the "in-between" decoders are at risk and the challenge is identifying a decoder as "in-between". The Märklin document is clear as mud with respect to that.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline orionstars  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2019 15:06:06(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
Thanks all. I’m going to read through your link TEEWolf in just a moment.

I’m starting to wonder if I should just buy the Mobil Station and oval track set and use the C to M track connector track I have? That might solve the controller problems?

I’ll have a search through the forum about using Myra k in digital and any changes I need to make.
Offline TEEWolf  
#9 Posted : 26 January 2019 17:01:07(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post
Thanks all. I’m going to read through your link TEEWolf in just a moment.

I’m starting to wonder if I should just buy the Mobil Station and oval track set and use the C to M track connector track I have? That might solve the controller problems?

I’ll have a search through the forum about using Myra k in digital and any changes I need to make.


Not the C or M tracks solving your problem. Your problems are solved by buying a MS 2 (and the needed trackbox 60113/60116).

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-306.pdf

Because then, you are switching from analogue current to digital current.
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Offline orionstars  
#10 Posted : 26 January 2019 18:06:11(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
Yeah.

I've put together a small (roughly 4'x 8') plan from the Marklin Magazine using the M track that I have.

I have two of the M to C track adapter pieces so we could hook the kids My World "C" track to the M track.

So maybe by using the MS2 with its connector I could hook it to the C track and via the adapter pieces I could tie it into the M Track layout?

If I connect it onto a stub siding I could easily remove it and hookup my analog transformer and use my three analog locos still. Then re attach the Ctrack pieces with the MS2, remove the analog locos and run my new digital one.

Does that sound like a successful path for now?
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#11 Posted : 26 January 2019 18:17:44(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Very nice locomotive!

Complementing to what others already said, I have five digital locomotives and can report on that experience.

Three of them run OK on conventional analog mode, two very well and one with somewhat lower speed than usual. Two of them have natively mfx decoders and one is a c80 retrofit.

Two older ones have Delta decoders. They could probably be made to run as well by changing the dip switches in the decoders. I have nevertheless not bothered to do so because I have similar analog locomotives.

I use only the white transformers to run my locos; the blue ones have been demoted to light trafos.

So my guess is that your locomotive will run fine with a white transformer. Getting a MS is not necessary, and can wait until you wish to run several locomotives simultaneously, or you wish to get access to the bells and whistles only available in the digital mode.

Edit: I read your last entry only after typing the above. If you have the gear you mention, then your plan is fine. It's relatively easy to switch from one mode to the other of you plan for it in advance.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 26 January 2019 19:34:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post

I have two of the M to C track adapter pieces so we could hook the kids My World "C" track to the M track.


Umm, are those battery powered trains? If they are then the track is all plastic one piece molded, including the centre studs, and your other locos will not get power from the track. You will be able to run the other rolling stock on it but the loco will lose power once it runs on it.

If they have an Infra-Red controller or basic grey hand held with red buttons (similar to the IR controller, but wired to the track) then yes you can use this track. You will need to unsolder the wires under the track (or snip them off with cutters) before connecting the feeder track to the other system.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2019 19:41:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,104
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
If it is an old decoder, it can be blown off in analogue mode.
No, old decoders can handle those higher voltages.
The old decoders were introduced when there were only blue transformers around.
Only the "in-between" decoders are at risk and the challenge is identifying a decoder as "in-between". The Märklin document is clear as mud with respect to that.



I would start by grouping them as follows: -

All Delta decoders with only four switches or solder bridges for address selection are definitely 'old'

All 6080 and 6090 decoders are also 'old'.

All 60901 and later with switches to select decoder address are 'in-between'. Separation of these into 'old' and 'at risk' will need to rely on identifying the chip on the decoder to see if it matches those known to definitely be 'old types'.

All decoders without switches are 'new' and from the above discussion I take it that they can also be used with the older transformers.

Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2019 19:52:04(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
The decoders that are vulnerable are the ESU OEM and Maerklin decoders from around 2002-2008. The same risk applies to many decoders from other brands going back as far as 1996 or so (Lenz, Uhlenbrock, ESU, etc), including those delivered with locomotives from Hag, Roco, and other companies with either 8 pin stickers or cables.

Regards

Mike
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Offline orionstars  
#15 Posted : 26 January 2019 20:05:27(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: orionstars Go to Quoted Post

I have two of the M to C track adapter pieces so we could hook the kids My World "C" track to the M track.


Umm, are those battery powered trains?


Yeah that's what we have (all plastic rails and studs). When I inherited the beginnings of our developing setup I bought the connector tracks so we could run the My World trains onto the M track. I use the M Track layout at the same time with a transformer and electricity and locos. We bought them two of the My World coupler conversion cars (magnet on one end Marklin coupler on the other) so we could shunt cars to each other's layout section.

It works brilliantly.
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