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Offline Br502362  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2018 18:28:19(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Hi,

I just came from the post office and unwrapped a Märklin BR 44 (37883).
It came from a collection and has no signs of use. I put a small drop of oil
to every axle and motor bearings and applied speed from analogue (white) transformer.
Only lights came on. I took a closer look. Everything moves freely.
More power and it begun to move but slowly. Max power and it makes about
1/5 of max speed what it should.

I tried to change brushes. Not better...

Is it possible that former owner has run it in digital mode and set the max speed
low and this setting stays on in analogue mode? I can't find any mechanical reason
for poor speed. Confused

HELP!

-Åke-
Offline skeeterbuck  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2018 19:02:49(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I would apply 12V DC directly to the motor brushes and see if it runs normal. That way you would be bypassing the decoder. If it does then it may be in the programing of the decoder. If not, I would suspect the old oil becoming stiff. You will need to clean all the old oil away and then re-oil with new fresh oil. Good luck!
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2018 19:30:21(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi Åke

NEVER apply voltage to any motor while decoder is still connected. It will destroy it.
You are dealing with a "Spielewert" Loco. (37883). You need probably to replenish the levels (coal, sand and water). Then the loco will run its normal speed.
Cheers

Jean
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Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 28 December 2018 19:45:40(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ake,

If you are familiar with CV programming check the value of CV53?

If this value is too low the loco will not reach max speed when throttle is at full.

See lokpilot decoder manual for some guidance, as Marklin manuals have very little details on such matter.

I had locos before where this value suddenly got changed for no apparent reason. Even after resetting the loco CV53 would not go back to ist factory setting value, so I had to change it manually.

And of course check max speed setting in configuration menu or CV5.

Best Regards
Lasse

Ps: sorry just saw you are trying to run analogue mode. There is also a CV setting for max AC speed when running analogue. I recently had a brand new Marklin BR24 which had very low default analogue max speed setting. You can easily change the setting if you have a CS?
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Br502362  
#5 Posted : 28 December 2018 19:59:22(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Hi Lasse,

Unfortunately I don't have a CS.
I think that I must take a visit local Märklin dealer in Helsinki
and ask him to take a look at the settings.

Best regards
Åke



Offline Danlake  
#6 Posted : 28 December 2018 21:15:00(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ake,

The CV for Marklin/Motorola protocol for max analogue speed is in CV 79 and the startup voltage is in CV78.

The default CV value for newer Marklin decoder sets are around 200-230 mark for CV 79.

It’s very easy to change with CS.

I believe it’s also possible with mobile stations but may require a work around by registering the loco as MM only (not mfx) to get acces to CV registers.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 28 December 2018 22:13:56(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ake

I don't know which digital item you have but with a mobile station you may access /change the CVs
Here is a manual (sorry in German) that explains it. https://www.maerklin.de/fileadmi...4_Digital_MM_2014_03.pdf
Also with a CU 6021 you also have access to CVs (explained in your users manual or https://static.maerklin....33b6a2da8b1434542139.pdf

Apologies: your loco was made in 2008 / 2009 so it will not be "Spielewert". So either your motor needs cleaning (open carefully the brushholder and clean it and the rotor) or a CV was changed and a factory reset may help.
To do this you need to set CV 8=8
Cheers

Jean
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MrB32  
#8 Posted : 29 December 2018 11:46:43(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
Jean:
One generic question: are you sure the "Spielewelt" settings can be active in analogue mode?
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 29 December 2018 13:34:43(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi MrB32

I am not sure but probably not. Quite a number of Märklin users have had problems with the "Spielewelt" settings
Cheers
Jean
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Offline Br502362  
#10 Posted : 04 January 2019 15:29:13(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Hi,

I came just from local Märklin dealer in Helsinki.
My BR44 was there for some days in service. Shop owner said
that everything is ok now. It runs well and sounds work in analogue mode so I paid him.

Came home and was exited to run it and put it on track.
I was quite pissed off when noticed that nothing was done Cursing
It runs still only about 1/5 of its max speed and no sound.

Just now I am so angry that it is better not to phone him...

-Åke-

Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 04 January 2019 16:58:23(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi Åke

Can't it be that your power system is not well connected or defective?
I understand you work in analogue mode. Do you have a Märklin transformer?
Otherwise yes the dealer may have missed the issue
Cheers

Jean
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MrB32  
#12 Posted : 04 January 2019 17:39:48(UTC)
Guest


Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 260
The instruction manual for this loco (https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/c0/75/c075a5e0931f837b7d095c33b6a2da8b1434542139.pdf) states that no sound is available in analogue mode, this is the same for all digital Marklin locos that you run in analog mode as far as I am aware. So the only function you can expect from this model in analogue mode are lights.

If the dealer told you sound worked in analogue mode, provided the loco is as it came from the factory, then this is wrong.

I am assuming your other locos are running fine with the same transformer? To eliminate a layout issue, I would set a test track up, and try the loco there. If the behaviour is the same, then I would go back to the dealer and ask him to show you the loco in action.
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 04 January 2019 17:47:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post
The instruction manual for this loco (https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/c0/75/c075a5e0931f837b7d095c33b6a2da8b1434542139.pdf) states that no sound is available in analogue mode, this is the same for all digital Marklin locos that you run in analog mode as far as I am aware. So the only function you can expect from this model in analogue mode are lights.
For mfx locos from Märklin with ESU decoders you can program the decoder to produce sound also in analogue mode. With mfx decoders of Märklin's "home brew" I had no success with sounds in analogue mode.

mfx decoders can be programmed to activate any function in analogue mode.
So you can get more than the manual promises, provided someone programs the decoder.

Some Märklin locos from the days when decoders still had DIP switched have sound in analogue mode, too.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Br502362  
#14 Posted : 04 January 2019 20:43:43(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Åke

Can't it be that your power system is not well connected or defective?
I understand you work in analogue mode. Do you have a Märklin transformer?
Otherwise yes the dealer may have missed the issue
Cheers

Jean


Hi Jean,

I have white Märklin transformers and all other locos run well.

Cheers
Åke

Offline Br502362  
#15 Posted : 04 January 2019 20:50:12(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post
The instruction manual for this loco (https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/c0/75/c075a5e0931f837b7d095c33b6a2da8b1434542139.pdf) states that no sound is available in analogue mode, this is the same for all digital Marklin locos that you run in analog mode as far as I am aware. So the only function you can expect from this model in analogue mode are lights.

If the dealer told you sound worked in analogue mode, provided the loco is as it came from the factory, then this is wrong.

I am assuming your other locos are running fine with the same transformer? To eliminate a layout issue, I would set a test track up, and try the loco there. If the behaviour is the same, then I would go back to the dealer and ask him to show you the loco in action.


Hi,

I have also a V200 loco 37803 which makes sound in analogue mode.
Straight out of box without any programming.

I must take it back and demonstrate the problem live.

Cheers

Åke

Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 05 January 2019 00:30:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Br502362 Go to Quoted Post
I have also a V200 loco 37803 which makes sound in analogue mode.
That loco has a decoder with DIP switches from the digital stone-age.
Modern mfx decoders have many new features - but only some of them support sound in analogue mode.

But your description sounds as if the dealer never tested the loco in analogue mode.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 05 January 2019 02:16:19(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Please let us know which transformer you are using:
Please let us know what other devices/locomotives/accessories/lighting is in use at the same time?
It is possible that your transformer is exceeding it's output wattage and is not providing enough power to move the locomotive.

Test the locomotive with no other train on the tracks and remove other accessories' connections to the transformer (yellow plug)

Take the feeder track and three or four track sections and test the locomotive there.

If the problem continues, take a video of the issue and send it, along with a short report to service(at)maerklin.de and ask for assistance.
Then take what action they recommend to the dealer.

and no matter what, if you go back to the dealer, bring your transformer with you. If it works fine with his transformer, but your's is slow, then the problem is likely with your transformer.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Br502362  
#18 Posted : 05 January 2019 08:59:17(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Please let us know which transformer you are using:
Please let us know what other devices/locomotives/accessories/lighting is in use at the same time?
It is possible that your transformer is exceeding it's output wattage and is not providing enough power to move the locomotive.

Test the locomotive with no other train on the tracks and remove other accessories' connections to the transformer (yellow plug)

Take the feeder track and three or four track sections and test the locomotive there.

If the problem continues, take a video of the issue and send it, along with a short report to service(at)maerklin.de and ask for assistance.
Then take what action they recommend to the dealer.

and no matter what, if you go back to the dealer, bring your transformer with you. If it works fine with his transformer, but your's is slow, then the problem is likely with your transformer.

Regards

Mike C


Hi Mike,

My layout is powered with 8pcs of white Märklin 6647 transformers. All of these power only different
track sections. All lighting, points etc. are powered by three Märklin 40VA blue plastic case transformers.
Problem exists also on my separate test track which have also 6647 transformer.

I am just going to visit my M dealer so let's see what he has to say.

Best regards
Åke
Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 05 January 2019 18:48:47(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Sounds like it is not a transformer issue, unless the lok is consuming too much power on it's own.
Does the dealer have a test track at the shop? If yes, can you observe the function in person?

It may help to bring the lok and another (for comparison) as well as a transformer and a few track sections if you want the dealer to see the issue as you experience it.

From what I see, the model is equipped with a MFX decoder. I don't know if this was a OEM ESU or Maerklin (Inhouse) decoder.
If it has an ESU decoder, you can adjust settings using an ESU Lokprogrammer and use the Test Track feature to experience all of the functions.
You can use the Lokprogrammer to test most other brand decoders, but not to change parameters.

You may also consider picking up a MS2 or 3 from a broken up Start set, just to be able to test models in digital on your test bench.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 05 January 2019 22:54:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

You can use the Lokprogrammer to test most other brand decoders, but not to change parameters.


A lokprogrammer can certainly be used to update CV values - I have done it on a Marklin msd/3 decoder with a lokprogrammer.

Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 05 January 2019 23:09:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

You can use the Lokprogrammer to test most other brand decoders, but not to change parameters.


A lokprogrammer can certainly be used to update CV values - I have done it on a Marklin msd/3 decoder with a lokprogrammer.
It can change some decoders, but not all.
I think it cannot even change the ESU decoders that Märklin used in 2004.

The loco discussed here probably has a Märklin decoder without DCC support and in that case the ESU Lokprogrammer will not be able to change anything.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Br502362  
#22 Posted : 07 January 2019 18:51:09(UTC)
Br502362

Finland   
Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Finland
Hi all,

My dealer called me today that my steamer is ok now.
I visited him an we had a little chat. The guy who does
all repairs to him managed to program the decoder and
now it runs and has sound in analogue mode!

Thanks to you all for good hints and advises ThumpUp

Cheers
Åke
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