Nice find Paul......

Frames aside it looks salvageable!

Hi Markus,

Thanks very much for your comments. I hadn't heard the story that all of the first series CCS 800 locos were sent to a dealer in Switzerland, but that does sound possible. And that is right, I forgot that the 1947 "dealer catalog" wasn't actually released until around 1948 despite the print codes. I suppose that is why there is the black/white catalog that looks hand-made with actual photographs added in a small bound book. I forget what this catalog is referred to but I have heard that it is associated with the Swiss market too. I have only seen a few of those catalogs...

The CCS 800 certainly is salvageable. But as Markus said it doesn't bear the signs of a true first series - the first series that I have seen are more of a green/gray while this one has the color of a Version 2 or 3. But such variations are possible and certainly the round screws on the linkages do make it rare and interesting.

Crocodile frames an be purchased from RITTER and TTN. I believe the TTN frames are zinc-diecast (as the original) whereas RITTER frames are made from a different allow and in my opinion are of lesser quality.

Paul

PS. Edit: this page shows the 1947 Swiss catalog: http://www.wiswin.nl/Marklin%20die%2040er.html

Looking forward to seeing this project!

Hello All,

Just picked up this thread - I'm normally active on the German Forum 'Alte Modellbahnen' - sorry I didn't get here sooner! :-) . I wanted to add some additional info to your various questions/comments as I have extensive experience with these old Crocs!

So, the one in question here, is definitely from 1947 - in poor condition but not beyond salvage given some effort and investment - I have rebuilt several from similar condition... You are correct that the 'round' (aka 'Schlitzschrauben') on the linkages point towards 1947. This one is probably from mid-47, it is already in transition from version 1 to version 2. In addition to these round slotted screws, the 'true' version 1 would also have had roundhead screws ('lentil heads') to secure the chassis to the motor via the brass ring - this one already has the later ones with the slotted pin and the hex nut to secure it. The other item is the pantographs which are already version 4.1 ie the copper pickup/runner is angled rather than rounded like the earlier version 4.0 which would have been fitted to the first version. As far as the colour goes, I agree that it points towards a version 2 or even 3 as it seems more olive but this isn't always reliable. Mikado has this very same one in the online catalogue as a 'version 2' . I have the very same one but it is dark green with lots of bubbles in the paint which points towards a very early one but keep in mind that Marklin would have made the parts in batches as materials were available and things did get used as they were available hence these 'mixed' versions...


So, looking at this one, it needs all the castings replaced ie 2 chassis, the motor needs new gearbox housings and the wheels are mostly past it as well so, all in all, you would need to budget around 1000 Euros for these (and then do the work! :-) ).


On the subject of the replacement parts:


The chassis sold by Ritter are the best - they are pressure moulded in Zamak 3 (the original material) in new moulds and are of superb quality - they fit perfectly and do not need any work and can be assembled immediately. Ritter has recently reduced their pricing to EUR 190 each which is great value - they come pre-fitted with the connector for the power cable and the guide for the mushroom pick up. The gearbox housings are also available although you need to speak with Ritter as they are still working on the gears which will also be fitted when available - expect similar costs. Again I have worked with these and they are excellent - like the originals. TTN has recently also bought a batch of these parts (chassis and gearbox) from the same supplier but also still offers their own version as well - caution, their own is inferior and normally needs additional work to make things fit...


Assembly is tricky and requires time and patience (and some skill) - the key to getting the chassis connected correctly to the motor is to assemble the brass ring with the motor first (note the bearings pressed in the brass ring on 2 sides that it turns on for the left/right movement - these do not exist for the sides which will be assembled with the chassis brackets for the up/down motion) - the trick is to screw in the screw so it's pin is central in the hole now tighten until there is just a minimum of up/down play between the ring and the motor bracket - check it turns freely left/right. When ok secure the lock nut but be careful that the pin doesn't turn again). Then assemble the chassis. Once done, align the shaft with the slot on the motor side and slide in - repeat the procedure with the pins - checking for minimal play whilst maintaining free movement, then secure the lock nuts. Practice with some old parts - you will get the hang of it quite quickly. :-) Also, a tiny bit of silicone grease can be helpful here on all the moving surfaces..


Finally, on the subject of 100 1st versions - these were actually not the 1st versions but a pre-series - they were made for the dealer reps to demonstrate - they had some additional differences: they have a small snow plough at the front of the 2 pony trucks and the coupling still runs under the buffer plate - from version 1 the snow plough is deleted and the coupling now runs through a slot in the buffer plate. I have never seen one of those early '0' series demonstrators. Probably all lost/fallen victim to the 'Zinkpest'. Also, the '0' series (ie the version for the reps) were also the only ones to have a RED central bulb at either end and the sandbox design was also less pronounced than on the versions 1-3.

I hope this helps - happy to answer any questions!

Best regards from London!
Karim

Thanks Karim - wonderful information and I will certainly come back to read when I restore my next CCS.

Eddie - on the topic of whose replica parts are better I can say that my opinion was not from experience. I had heard that TTN's were Zinc and Ritter was using Pewter which would have made then inferior due to quality of the metal (and softness). I think both companies use different techniques and may have switched over the years so it largely depends.

All the best,

Paul