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Offline Alko  
#1 Posted : 07 December 2018 04:58:18(UTC)
Alko

United States   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Arizona
Hello
So I finally bit the bullet and bought an HO set (29000) which includes the Mobile Station (60657), track connector box (60116) and enough pieces of track to make an oval track. Marklin trains with MFX decoder work fine, they are recognized right away and most functions seem to be there(This would be another question)
My problem starts when I try to program a BRAWA locomotive (43901) This one has no sound but DCC decoder. When i tried to program automatically it seemed like it did, but it had no functions nor control. I went ahead and modified some parameters: Change loco, Address and changed the domain to 3(According to the instruction manual) And I gained some of the light functions but no forward nor reverse movement. I went ahead and changed the domain to 4, and I gained movement control but no functions, changed it back to 3 and finally got movement and light control. My question now is this:
1. I know this locomotive has a lot of light functions, but the mobile station only shows 4, how can unlock all the other ones? Posting a picture of this
2. What is the turtle symbol for? (All other marklin locomotives have it, the manual shows it as ABV off, but when I press it nothing happens)
3. Some of the functions require you to press multiple buttons, do you press them at once? or one by one? ( I tried both an nothing seems to happen)

Thank you very much for your help!

BRAWA 43901

Marklin Mobile Station
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Offline Donb  
#2 Posted : 07 December 2018 07:38:25(UTC)
Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi,

Welcome to the wonderfull world of Marklin!
I am not expert on Mobil Stations, but DCC locos must be programmed manually, there is no automatic identification as in Mfx locos.
DCC locos come with the base address set to 3, and you must change it to something else.
The functions have to be manually set up, look at your Brawa manual for the function button asignments and then look at page 14 of your Mobil station manual to set up the function buttons accordingly.
Someone here with more Mobil Station experience with DCC will likely choime in here soon,
Good luck,
Best Regards,
Don
______________________________________________________________________________________
C track , collecting SBB, DB and SJ
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 07 December 2018 08:13:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,203
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

Many Brawa locos include a loco card that you push into the Mobile Station to register the loco with all the function symbols (MS is limited to 16 functions, so you still may not get all loco functions).

Märklin treats DCC very simple: Create a loco manually and you will have 13 function symbols by default - three more symbols can be added manually.
Create a loco by detecting it (which does not really work reliably with the MS) and you will have 5 function symbols - 11 more symbols can be added manually.

The MS does not support automatic registration of DCC locos (known as RailCom plus) because Märklin support their own inferior system mfx only.

It seems Märklin want to make using non-Märklin locos a bit complicated. If you know how DCC works you can get what you need manually.
Try the loco card if there is any.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Alko  
#4 Posted : 07 December 2018 14:57:10(UTC)
Alko

United States   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Arizona
Thanks for the replies!

In their online brochure it says that a loco card comes to aid in the programming of AC systems, but this one did not come with it, seems like I will have to do it manually
Offline MaerklinLife  
#5 Posted : 07 December 2018 15:09:32(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 360
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The MS does not support automatic registration of DCC locos (known as RailCom plus) because Märklin support their own inferior system mfx only.

That's funny, I find it to be superior...

To each his own. You hate it, we all know, but your comment indicates that it is a general opinion. It is not.
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Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 07 December 2018 16:57:20(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,396
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The MS does not support automatic registration of DCC locos (known as RailCom plus) because Märklin support their own inferior system mfx only.

That's funny, I find it to be superior...

To each his own. You hate it, we all know, but your comment indicates that it is a general opinion. It is not.


Marklin is certainly not inferior and their mfx locos register without problems. Brawa I found to be good if expensive but their locos are made for two and three rail with coaches requiring wheels to be changed.
I am sure most on here are Marklin fans as at the end of the day they provide everything we need from track to locos and control etc and all the others if they disappeared would not be good but we could still have our hobby intact.
If others want us to buy their stuff then they need to make for the Marklin system and not the other way round.



Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 07 December 2018 20:17:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,203
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Marklin is certainly not inferior [...]
I didn't say Märklin were inferior. Märklin are great and they are the world-market leaders and they show it.

Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
[...] and their mfx locos register without problems.
Without any problems? I faintly remember one or two threads about mfx locos that would not register automatically...


DCC was invented for Märklin. So we have to be grateful towards Märklin for giving us DCC.
DCC is needed to operate older Trix locos that came without mfx.
The description in the Mobile Station manual about registering DCC locos leaves some room for improvements.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#8 Posted : 07 December 2018 20:49:50(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 409
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The description in the Mobile Station manual about registering DCC locos leaves some room for improvements.


I couldn't agree more.
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Offline Jabez  
#9 Posted : 08 December 2018 00:52:33(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 481
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Alko Go to Quoted Post

2. What is the turtle symbol for? (All other marklin locomotives have it, the manual shows it as ABV off, but when I press it nothing happens)

The turtle or tortoise indicates low speed mode, useful for shunting. At least that's what it does on my Maerklin locos.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 08 December 2018 08:25:56(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,693
MS2 supports several protocols.
When i did had MS2 i did used only DCC protocol and drive Brawa locomotives.
When you start first time with a new locomotive to register in the MS2 with the DCC you must set manually and finally accept the locomotive.
Then you can start play the locomotive.
DCC means Digital Command Control.
Tillig Elite code 83 two rail


Offline costing  
#11 Posted : 08 December 2018 10:14:13(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Geneve, Geneva
The only thing I found really annoying with M products was their obvious attempt to lock you in. We can argue the benefits of mfx (if any) but keeping it proprietary while having locos only talk mfx was too much for me. First thing I did to all M locos was to replace the decoders, cost that had to be factored in when considering what to buy (or get rid of).

I'm glad they learned something from this and allowed recent models to also talk DCC!

On the same line, MS2 also seems designed to make your life hard when you have a loco from a competing company. But there is a way to manually add all the functions (well, not really, up to F15) and icons to them, check out the manual, pages 14-15 of the EN section.

The DCC section of MS2 manual is not the only case of lacking documentation, this is a general problem with them. Just another example: adding keep alive capacitors to mSD/3 and ESU's LokSound 4 was a so different experience... For M you have to spend hours on forums and then reverse engineer pin mappings and trace connections while ESU's manual just tells you where to solder the two wires.

Cheers,

.costin
JMRI on RPi Zero W & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin (SBB Re 4/4 II, SBB Ee 3/3, DB BR 24), Roco (DB BR 103, CFR 040-EC-001), ESU engineering (DB 265 MRCE) / Christmas car collector
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 09 December 2018 10:10:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,693
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post

On the same line, MS2 also seems designed to make your life hard when you have a loco from a competing company. But there is a way to manually add all the functions (well, not really, up to F15) and icons to them, check out the manual, pages 14-15 of the EN section.



The english language are upside down to read it!

Laugh

DCC means Digital Command Control.
Tillig Elite code 83 two rail


Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 09 December 2018 10:15:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,203
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
The english language are upside down to read it!
Not when you read the 60657 manual (which also can be used for the 60653):
https://static.maerklin....306cd58fa91515411591.pdf

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:48:08(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post
The only thing I found really annoying with M products was their obvious attempt to lock you in. We can argue the benefits of mfx (if any) but keeping it proprietary while having locos only talk mfx was too much for me. First thing I did to all M locos was to replace the decoders, cost that had to be factored in when considering what to buy (or get rid of).

I'm glad they learned something from this and allowed recent models to also talk DCC!

On the same line, MS2 also seems designed to make your life hard when you have a loco from a competing company. But there is a way to manually add all the functions (well, not really, up to F15) and icons to them, check out the manual, pages 14-15 of the EN section.

The DCC section of MS2 manual is not the only case of lacking documentation, this is a general problem with them. Just another example: adding keep alive capacitors to mSD/3 and ESU's LokSound 4 was a so different experience... For M you have to spend hours on forums and then reverse engineer pin mappings and trace connections while ESU's manual just tells you where to solder the two wires.

Cheers,

.costin


You do not have to change the complete deocder to get always DCC. You can alter this by programming the decoder. But please be aware, you cannot delet the activ protocol. First you have to change to another protocol before you can delete or change the former active protocol.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#15 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:53:35(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post

On the same line, MS2 also seems designed to make your life hard when you have a loco from a competing company. But there is a way to manually add all the functions (well, not really, up to F15) and icons to them, check out the manual, pages 14-15 of the EN section.



The english language are upside down to read it!

Laugh



Yes, true for the 60653 manual, in the manual for the 60657 Märklin changed it. Now you do not have to do a headstand on your couch any more for reading the manual.LOL LOL
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:57:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,203
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
You do not have to change the complete deocder to get always DCC. You can alter this by programming the decoder.
Can be done with some decoders, but AFAIK not with all decoders.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline costing  
#17 Posted : 09 December 2018 22:09:01(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Geneve, Geneva
As far as I found (and again this is a very frustrating process) this is only true for mSD/3 or mLD/3, where it is even enabled by default. Earlier decoder generations (like those that came with my locos) don't support it. I even took them to the local dealer and he didn't manage to enable DCC on the older ones.
JMRI on RPi Zero W & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin (SBB Re 4/4 II, SBB Ee 3/3, DB BR 24), Roco (DB BR 103, CFR 040-EC-001), ESU engineering (DB 265 MRCE) / Christmas car collector
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Offline TEEWolf  
#18 Posted : 09 December 2018 23:31:13(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,082
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: costing Go to Quoted Post
As far as I found (and again this is a very frustrating process) this is only true for mSD/3 or mLD/3, where it is even enabled by default. Earlier decoder generations (like those that came with my locos) don't support it. I even took them to the local dealer and he didn't manage to enable DCC on the older ones.


This is obvious. You only can enable DCC, if this is for a decoder possible. Please read my post #31 in this thread

https://www.marklin-user...d-strange-Loco-behaviour

I wrote about the different capabilities of the Märklin decoders for mfx - DCC - MM digital formats.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline dominator  
#19 Posted : 10 December 2018 02:32:05(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Kerikeri
I see 2 questions not answered [ or not in full ]

You can get f0 through to f7 from the 8 buttons. You can get f8 to f15, I think, by pressing the shift button before pressing one of the 8 buttons

The tortoise sign does mean slow for shunting, but what it also means is that it disables the acceleration/braking delay functions so what ever you set the dial knob to is what you get. Ie it can go from flat out to a dead stop by spinning the knob back./
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 10 December 2018 07:47:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,203
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
This is obvious. You only can enable DCC, if this is for a decoder possible.
For some Märklin decoders it was possible to activate DCC by sending the decoder to Märklin. But Märklin no longer do that.
So in many cases it is possible, but cannot be done by the customer. So sad.

"A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large." - Henry Ford


Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
The tortoise sign does mean slow for shunting, but what it also means is that it disables the acceleration/braking delay functions so what ever you set the dial knob to is what you get.
The MS2 has fewer symbols than the CS2, so some functions have different symbols on the CS2, but same symbols on the MS2.

Most Märklin locos have a function that disables acceleration and braking delay (ABD off) - and typically the tortoise is used as a symbol.
Some Märklin locos have one function that triggers ABD and shunting speed at the same time. Some have different functions for those two features.
On all mfx locos the feature "shunting speed" can be assigned to any function key.

Märklin standard is F4 for ABD off - sometimes combined with shunting speed. But F4 may have different purposes.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline costing  
#21 Posted : 10 December 2018 11:45:56(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Geneve, Geneva
Coming back to the original question. Something that might not be clear yet is that the symbols and functions that MS2 created by default for your loco is not what the loco is capable of, it's just some defaults that might or might not match your configuration. Check your loco's own manual to see which functions should be supported then configure your MS2 entry to reflect them. Something like the table below.

If you don't have the manual any more, just enable all 16 in MS2 (set a symbol for each) and see what they do. With that information you can then assign icons or temporary/permanent flags, disable the ones that are not doing anything and so on. Well, that's a bit more tricky, some functions could alter the behavior in non-obvious ways (like disabling braking sounds, ABD, shunting...).

Screenshot_20181210_114352.jpg
JMRI on RPi Zero W & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin (SBB Re 4/4 II, SBB Ee 3/3, DB BR 24), Roco (DB BR 103, CFR 040-EC-001), ESU engineering (DB 265 MRCE) / Christmas car collector
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Offline Alko  
#22 Posted : 15 December 2018 01:32:01(UTC)
Alko

United States   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Arizona
Hello everyone!
I finally figured it out and i will show you the steps:

1. I looked in the manuals and it shows the functions it has, in this case from F0 to F6 since it does not have sound
UserPostedImage
2. Press SHIFT + TRAIN and select CHANGE LOCO
UserPostedImage
3. Press LOCO FUNCTIONS
UserPostedImage
4.Select CHANGE LOCO FUNCTIONS
UserPostedImage
5.Select an F function (In my case I selected F5 which was blank) and select an icon
UserPostedImage
6. Select the duration you would like the function to last
UserPostedImage

And that is it!

It was definitely not as bad as I thought it would be, its more time consuming and repetitive, when I first put the locomotive on the rail I had it detect it automatically, which it did, but only showed functions F0(as a symbol of lights), F1, F2, F3, F4(as a symbol of a turtle), so I had to program F5 and F6, then I changed the other icons, I am not sure if they are right or not, I have to double check

Thank you once again for your kind responses! Little by little I am learning more and more!
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