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Offline dominator  
#1 Posted : 27 November 2018 22:00:29(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Hi, last weekend I decided to connect up my 2 MS2's to one track box. There are 13 or so locos listed on the master MS2 but I cant load anymore than 2 locos onto the slave. I read the instructions and had several goes at trying to add a third loco but no success. The instructions on page 21, dont really explain how to do it [ or my analogue brain cant work it out ]. They say " it is possible to to enter locos from the data base or manually". What sort of a vague instruction is that? For some reason I cant expalin, I could not find the " New loco from Master" on the slave?????!!!!!!Confused Crying Mad

When I first switch them on, the slave shows a full range of loco on the 10 slots them changes to the 2 only.

Hopefully someone can guide me through this.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline Minok  
#2 Posted : 27 November 2018 22:57:18(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,049
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Manually is for non mfx self registering locos so for the likes of MM and I think the DCC types. From Database refers to, if I remember from the recent Märklin youtube video, that you enter the Märklin locomotive product number and it looks up the data from the database it has to know what the settings and features of that loco would be (ie the number from the side of the box).

I'm not sure either of those two have to do with using a 2nd mobile station in slave mode on the layout - what locos are available on the slave is governed by something else.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline dominator  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2018 00:57:27(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
I think I have only 2-3 MFX locos. I think the 39606 is C-Sinus whatever that means and I have 3 fx locos . The rest are keyboard decoders. The 39606 registered on position 2 and my Swiss MAK is on position one.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2018 04:38:03(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
I think I have only 2-3 MFX locos. I think the 39606 is C-Sinus whatever that means and I have 3 fx locos . The rest are keyboard decoders. The 39606 registered on position 2 and my Swiss MAK is on position one.


Hello Dereck,

for using 2 MS 2 on Märklin's track box is quite normal and M issued its technical tip 307 for more information about it.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-307.pdf

Its title is "Organisation der Loklisten in der Mobile Station 60653" (organisation of the locomotive lists in the mobile station 60653).

I translated the major part about using 2 MS 2 together.

"Operation with several Mobile Stations 60653

If there are several Mobile Stations, the MS 2 with the lowest serial number always takes over the role of the "master", all other MS 2 switch to the "slave" mode. For the complete system only the internal locomotive list of the master is active. All other locomotive lists are hidden. In this mode new locomotives can only be registered at the master. But the master provides its internal locomotive list data for all other slave devices.

A mobile station in the slave mode can only be release locomotives but not delete them. This can only be done by the master MS 2."


A C-sinus is a motor type for a loco and has nothing to do with a track format as mfx, fx (=MM 2), DCC at a MS 2.

The serial number for a MS 2 you get under the menu information (see page 19 instructions) inside of the MS 2. So you can determine which one is the master and which one is the slave. This selection you cannot change. I wrote the serial number on a small sticker on the backside of the MS 2 for remembrance.

The locos you want to use on your layout by using 2 MS 2 at your track box (more MS 2 can be attached to a layout, but not by a track box, but this is an extra theme) you have to register them first at your master MS 2.

The mfx locos are registering themselves. All other locos have to be registered manually. But be aware that you register each loco alone on a complete empty track, even no wagons, etc. are allowed to be on the track. Best is to set up a short but completely separate programming track. Insert all parameters manually and save them. Then it will work. Of course is there another internally database to make programming easier, but this database is only containing 40 locos and must have your locos listed inside. You can try this programming as well, but you do not know, if it contains the loco you need. But at the end, the best is (except of mfx locos) insert them manually into your MS 2. This is even valid for my CS 3+, because it can be such a brand new loco model which perhaps is not yet in the M database, then I also have no other choice as to registered the loco manually (again, of course not for the mfx locos valid). But this is a major reason why Märklin introduced the feedback mfx track format. You do not have to care about registering locos at a totally empty track. You just put the loco on your layout and it is registering alone.

Best regards

TEEWolf


P.S.:
Your 39606 is a loco with a DELTA decoder (actually the first original MM track format)

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-303.pdf

and a C-sine motor inside. If you do not know the digital address yet, you must set it by the dip switches inside on the loco decoder (M writes electronic circuit). But try the digital addresses 78 or 72 or 24 or 60 first. These are the Märklin standard digital addresses used by Märklin for this decoder type.

Read in the 39606 manual (page 5) "The Delta and Digital address can be set manually with coding switches on the electronic circuit.”

https://static.maerklin....2eb6a347991434542042.pdf

https://static.maerklin....25c5a618da1434542079.pdf
At the explosion drawing at the number 20 "motor with decoder" (Motor mit Decoder) you see the dip switches on this rectangular plate above the round motor and connected to it by a cable band.

Afterwards you have to insert this setted digital address manually into the MS 2 (MASTER!) for registration. I have also one DELTA loco too. But I had the luck to find the loco in the pre setted database by Märklin. Hope you have the same luck, otherwise come back to the forum. At the forum you get your Swiss BLS running. Here are plenty of specialist for DELTA decoders.




CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2018 08:10:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Your 39606 is a loco with a DELTA decoder (actually the first original MM track format)
Delta decoder in a loco with a 39xxx ref. number? I never expected that.

I thought that all 39xxx locos have fx or mfx.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dominator  
#6 Posted : 28 November 2018 12:02:12(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
I have spent the last few minutes going through the Mobile station part 4 for more info on setting up the 2 MS2's. The data is very slowly getting into my head.

The 39606 has an 8 switch decoder so it is full digital. It goes well when controlled by my slave. It still has its original settings so was on the loco list, and I have loaded a loco card with its information.

Bare with me. It will take a bit of time to get through all this info. Its late here at the moment and I have just got back from band practice. Another full weekend practice this weekend then we are of to Palmy for our first major competition of this season.

my problem is knowing how to load the locos from the master to the slave. I am getting an idea of what is required when reading the information on the part 4 newsletter mentioned above. The basic instructions that come with the MS2's is bloody useless for a dummy like me.
In the mean time its time to log out and have a couple of "Highland Parks".

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 28 November 2018 15:18:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,545
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Your 39606 is a loco with a DELTA decoder (actually the first original MM track format)
Delta decoder in a loco with a 39xxx ref. number? I never expected that.

I thought that all 39xxx locos have fx or mfx.


Agreed, it should have all 8 switches if it has switches at all, as the early C-Sine locos did have.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 28 November 2018 16:12:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
my problem is knowing how to load the locos from the master to the slave.
Part of the problem is that the manuals for the MS2 were written in the good old days when the MS2 was limited to 10+1 locos and when Master/Slave operation did not work properly.

The current firmware has many "undocumented" features when you use the manual as the reference.
The manual for the 60657 has a few updated pages, so it is a bit better than the 60653 manual.

Basic principle:
Register all locos on the Master. The Slave should be able to select locos from the loco list.
The loco list is stored on the Master and shared between Master and Slave.


Both MS2s should have the same firmware version and I would recommend using version 2.5 or higher.
The version can be checked on the information screens where you can also check which one is Master and which one is Slave.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline dominator  
#9 Posted : 28 November 2018 21:30:25(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Both my MS2's were updated earlier this year to 2.7 thanks to Lasse. All my locos are on the master, its just understanding how to then pass them across to the slave. In reading the article part 4 about the MS, I started to get an understanding of what happens. Most of the stuff relating to using one MS I have understood and put into practice. My problem is I am a visual type of person and huge amounts of words jut get jumbled up in my brain. They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Very true.
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 29 November 2018 22:27:38(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Both my MS2's were updated earlier this year to 2.7 thanks to Lasse. All my locos are on the master, its just understanding how to then pass them across to the slave. In reading the article part 4 about the MS, I started to get an understanding of what happens. Most of the stuff relating to using one MS I have understood and put into practice. My problem is I am a visual type of person and huge amounts of words jut get jumbled up in my brain. They say a picture is worth 1000 words. Very true.


Hello Derek,

OK I found my 2 MS 2 again and tested them for an analogue motorcycle fanBlink Smile .

There all of your locos are already listed in the master's database is fantastic. Makes life much easier. Because you only have to load the locos from your master into your slave MS 2.

Please be aware that there are different menus in both of your MS 2 and there are also different menu structures in your MS 2. This is only for the case that you use both MS 2 at the same time. Because only then a master and slave ist existing. Using it in combination with a CS then every MS 2 is always only a slave.

All right:

- Both MS 2 are connected with your track box.
- Take the slave MS 2, push the buttons shift + white loco (and wrench)
- follow the screen on the MS 2, which shows - loco configuration - new loco
- press new loco you entering the submenu new loco - press from loco list
- a submenu occurs "new loco from master" and a list is seen with the locos from your master MS 2
- press the button with the name for the loco you want to transfer on your slave-MS 2
- fetch loco data from master and see as the loco data is transfered from master to slave.
- regular screen comes up with the loco you just imported from the master-MS 2
- at the bottom from the active loco list is another one of a little "+" occupied.

If the list was already completely filled up already, then the 11th + is used and the first one is moved to the non-seen internal database. Now you can control the transferred loco by both MS 2 controller.

If the loco is not moving, please clean tracks, pukos and wheels of the loco first before searching for other reasons. I did it the other way around and of course, first I did not have success when the tracks are dirty.Smile

Disconnecting one of a MS 2 from the track box. then also disconnect the track box from the wall socket. Wait about 30 sec and the restart the remaining MS 2 at the track box. So you achieved that the menus for using only one track box and not a master and slave one. Hope it helps you.

Best regards

Wolfgang
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline dominator  
#11 Posted : 30 November 2018 06:15:46(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Thanks Wolfgang. That's a great help. I had a few moments to look at the article part 4 about the mobile station and started to get more understanding of how the system works., and as a result , now better understand what you have instructed me. I came home tonight after work with the idea of running the locos, but it was pissing with rain an we had a power cut for 1 1/2 hours, came on fro a few minutes then went off again.. Power just on and dinner cooking in the BBQ [ hopefully ] .
many thanks. i will let you know how I get on. I think we have got the idea now.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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Offline dominator  
#12 Posted : 30 November 2018 07:28:09(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Got that problem sorted but found out why there was confusion.

I saw that some locos at the top of the list were loaded as version 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Once I realized that tonight , I attempted to remove the extra listings to stop confusion. Unfortunately, some wont be removed because the MS2 says there is no longer a loco of that description. I cant remove the "ghost listings". I ended up removing the good listing.

I wonder if anyone can assist me to remove those ghost listings.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline dominator  
#13 Posted : 30 November 2018 08:04:56(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Hmmmmm. I might have fixed that problem by doing something wrong. Flapper I unplugged the slave without turning the power off.Blushing Next thing I see, the master has lost its memory of my Locos except one.Cursing Thank goodness for loco cards.BigGrin They are back on quick smartCool . I notice when I connected up the slave by itself, it had not lost its memory.BigGrin

All going well nowLove . many thanks.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline TEEWolf  
#14 Posted : 30 November 2018 22:54:09(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
Hmmmmm. I might have fixed that problem by doing something wrong. Flapper I unplugged the slave without turning the power off.Blushing Next thing I see, the master has lost its memory of my Locos except one.Cursing Thank goodness for loco cards.BigGrin They are back on quick smartCool . I notice when I connected up the slave by itself, it had not lost its memory.BigGrin

All going well nowLove . many thanks.

Dereck


Main thing is, it is going well again. Perfectly you got these loco cards. Very good example for using loco cards. Hopefully it convinces other members using them too.

Here a link for buying a cheaper, but technically the same loco card as from Märklin

https://www.reichelt.de/...arte-8kb-p37024.html?r=1

at another place in this forum are further links of other addresses listed. Use the search-boy.Cool

Well, these MS 2 are a little bit more complex as at a first sight, even if you get two of them and more and more locos using them parallel as a stand alone and/or as a double and not always looking which one is a master and which one is the slave. You get confused by the listed locos in the different databases.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
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Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 09 December 2018 21:56:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,049
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Märklin posted a simple YouTube video on this topic just now. The key takeaways, if you don’t understand German, are

1. The two MS must be on the same firmware version. You can update the lower version one to the higher version when they are connected together via the track box.

2 the MS with the lower serial number (SN shown in the MS info pane ) is always the master in the pairing. You cannot make one the master; it’s predetermined.

3. The slave only can access the loco list from the master. The master loco list is the only loco list. So make sure the loco is registered in the master first. Any locos registered in the slave MS are irellivant.

And this is for the MS2 only. Grey of black. Not the MS1.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline dominator  
#16 Posted : 09 December 2018 23:01:26(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 755
Location: Kerikeri
Hi Minok. I have 2 grey MS2's which have been updated to 2.7. My problem was the master seemed to have 2 locos to choose from but one had up to about 7 different versions and that threw me. Once I underwstood what was supposed to hapeen, i attempted to delete the extra versions but the master MS2 told me they didn't exist. I guess that is another gremlin in the system sent to screw with our brains. All is well now.
Many thanks to all who offered assistance here. And to Adrian for his help.

chì mi thu a-rithist

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
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