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MrB32  
#1 Posted : 05 November 2018 16:38:26(UTC)
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Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 284
I think the topic has been discussed here before but there seems to be some confusion on the compatibility of locomotives with the Märklin 6600 controller.

I have one of these units in the collection, and I'd like to activate it. I have never used one before but have read plenty of horror stories about it destroying electronic components of some types of locomotives.

What seems to be clear from my readings is that the unit can destroy delta and digital chips. But things seem to get a bit complicated for analog locos, so if anyone could shed some light on my confused brain I would appreciate it.

First of all, what is the issue? Is it the same issue as with older Märklin metal or plastic blue transformers, where the voltage used for reversing is too high or is it something else?

I'd like to put together a compatibility matrix so I know which models to use with the unit.

There a quite a few analogue reverser configurations:
a) the traditional mechanical reserver - That would cover locomotives with model numbers 3000 to 31xx series
b) the traditional mechanical reverser with pre switching electronic - some locomotives of the 33xx series
c) the electronic reverser (relay mounted on PCB board) - some locomotives of the 33xx, all locomotives of the 34xx and 35xx series
d) the digital/delta decoder: 36xx series and above.

For type "a", there are no issues, for type "d" there are issues, but what happens with types "b" and "c"?






Offline Markus Schild  
#2 Posted : 05 November 2018 17:12:56(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

I used and use the 6600 with models from a-c without any problems. I also never heart of any. The 6600 uses a phase-fired controller to control the speed of the train. That's not compatible with the decoders. I never tried if they will be really destroyed. I just believe the "do not" in the manual.

Regards

Markus
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Markus Schild
Offline Michael4  
#3 Posted : 05 November 2018 23:51:06(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 456
Location: England, South Coast
If it proves to be unsuitable for your layout I'm looking for one...I'm mostly a) with a couple of b)
Offline hxmiesa  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2018 12:09:44(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,099
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: MrB32 Go to Quoted Post

First of all, what is the issue? Is it the same issue as with older Märklin metal or plastic blue transformers, where the voltage used for reversing is too high or is it something else?

I'd like to put together a compatibility matrix so I know which models to use with the unit.
There a quite a few analogue reverser configurations:
a) the traditional mechanical reserver - That would cover locomotives with model numbers 3000 to 31xx series
b) the traditional mechanical reverser with pre switching electronic - some locomotives of the 33xx series
c) the electronic reverser (relay mounted on PCB board) - some locomotives of the 33xx, all locomotives of the 34xx and 35xx series
d) the digital/delta decoder: 36xx series and above.
For type "a", there are no issues, for type "d" there are issues, but what happens with types "b" and "c"?

As I understand it there are 2 issues;
The over-voltage pulse for changing direction; this is a "spannungsverdoblung" electronic circuit, which gives around 32V. -Somewhat similar to the problem with the blue trafos. The other issue is that the unit uses PWM (pulse width modulation) to control the motor at lower velocities; Instead of 50Hz, it gears up to 200Hz. (I´m not an electronics expert, so I cant read it from the schematics, but this is what I´ve herard) The electronic schematics are available online! (You can build additional 6600 units yourself on the kitchen-table. it´s so simple...)

I use 3 of the 6600 units with all locos types a), b) and c). So far without any problem.
I have never used it with type d), -and will never try it! -At least not willingly.
However... in the long run, it will be difficult to be ABSOLUTLY certain that no type d) loco EVER-NEVER enters a 6600-controlled track... :-/

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
MrB32  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2018 15:33:06(UTC)
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Joined: 06/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 284
Thanks for the clarification guys.



Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2018 16:14:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,848
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
The over-voltage pulse for changing direction; this is a "spannungsverdoblung" electronic circuit, which gives around 32V.
A voltage doubler turns 16 V AC into 48 V DC.
Considering that many decoders are only specified for up to 40 V, a reversing voltage of 48 V can really be harmful.
You may get around 32 V for analogue locos with shining light bulbs.

BTW: I found the schematic here:
https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=121658
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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