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Offline QQQ1970  
#1 Posted : 18 October 2018 03:29:23(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 377
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Basic question: does Link S88 60883 need separate power supply from CS3?
Offline Crazy Harry  
#2 Posted : 18 October 2018 04:08:00(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Basic question: does Link S88 60883 need separate power supply from CS3?


The Link S88 (60883) needs a separate power supply. It needs 66365 (120V 30VA) or 66367 (120V 36VA). This separate power supply will also provide power for any further S88 models connected to the bus connections on the Link S88.

I forgot to buy the separate power supply when I bought my CS3 and Link S88 so I was not able to test the Link S88 yet.

Cheers,

Harold.

Looks like the 66365 is no longer produced so the only option is the 66367 when buying new.
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 18 October 2018 04:08:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Yes

Marklins current offering include 66360(230V)/66367(120V)
Prior options are also fine 66361(230V)/66365(120V)
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 18 October 2018 11:59:53(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,340
Location: Scotland
Am I right in saying that a power supply for S88 is not required with the CS3 Plus and if so this should be considered when buying a CS3 along with the Link and a further power supply.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 18 October 2018 12:59:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi David

Yes you are right, only the Link 88 needs a separate power supply (won't work w/o it).
The CS3 Plus provides a connection for the new 60881 (and only this one) as I understand it works with 12 V instead of 5V for older units.
Cheers

Jean
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2018 20:05:10(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in saying that a power supply for S88 is not required with the CS3 Plus and if so this should be considered when buying a CS3 along with the Link and a further power supply.


I believe this is correct, because the power supply for the CS3+ powers its internal S88 hub and provides the power out of its S88N style bus connection. If the modules one plugs into that S88N style bus cable need their own power supplies, I'm not sure, but the same would be true with the devices connected to the L88.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 19 October 2018 04:35:52(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in saying that a power supply for S88 is not required with the CS3 Plus and if so this should be considered when buying a CS3 along with the Link and a further power supply.


Hello David,

Märklin issued 2 Technik-Tipps for more information about the feedback modules.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-322.pdf

https://www.maerklin.de/...q/Technik-Tipp-320-b.pdf

Did you not want to buy a CS 3? Anyway, here is a list from Märklin which digital device can be used in connection with a CS 3.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-331.pdf

Best regards

Wolfgang
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 19 October 2018 13:33:45(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,340
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in saying that a power supply for S88 is not required with the CS3 Plus and if so this should be considered when buying a CS3 along with the Link and a further power supply.


Hello David,

Märklin issued 2 Technik-Tipps for more information about the feedback modules.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-322.pdf

https://www.maerklin.de/...q/Technik-Tipp-320-b.pdf

Did you not want to buy a CS 3? Anyway, here is a list from Märklin which digital device can be used in connection with a CS 3.

https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-331.pdf

Best regards

Wolfgang


Hello. Thanks for the above. I will be getting a CS3 Plus at Christmas and will keep my CS2.

I was just trying to explain the difference when connecting S88s to a CS3 or CS3 PLus. Was trying to explain to the OP the difference which appears to be mentioned on here on several threads. The cost saving on a CS3 is not much compared to a CS3 PLus if you also want to have S88s.
I have the Marklin book which will be good when I buy the new CS.

I think Marklin would have been better just to have made a CS3 PLus and thus save any confusion when connecting S88s.as most people will probably want to do.

All best
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#9 Posted : 15 November 2018 00:44:59(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi All,

I had issues with my first new L88 connected to my CS3. I connect my L88 to the power supply and the cable provided to the CS3. The CS3 detect the presence of my L88 by a green check circle. So far so good.

Then I hook up the ground connection to the system ground. A "K1 contact track" was set up and red (?) contact icon was shown on my TDCB, When I tab to the icon, it turns yellow and re-tab on it, it will turn white alternatingly.
,
When I connect the 1st port to the ground, I expect to see the icon turn yellow and back to white when I disconnect the terminal. But unfortunately, nothing happens.

I believe that I already set up the K1 properly, DEVICE-----> LinkS88-1, BUS----->Direct, MODULE --- not selectable because of its direct, Contact no.---->1

I am wondering whether I miss some setting or the device is defective (its brand new out of the box)

Thank you in advance for any advice from anyone who has past experience to make it work.

Boody
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 15 November 2018 07:11:26(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
... red (?) contact icon was shown on my TDCB, ....

This indicates the CS3 to L88 port is connection NOT intact or not correctly configured.

It is pointless doing any downstream tests until you resolve this issue
Peter
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#11 Posted : 15 November 2018 07:59:57(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Thanks, Peter

The CS3 detect my L88 presence. There is a green circle with a check mark in the CS3. If I turn off the power supply, the check mark disappears. The same thing happens when I pull out the cable. Therefore, I believed my L88 is properly connected to the CS3

I am suspicious of the fact that every time I restart the system, the contact (K1) icon turns red. If I tab on the icon, then it turns yellow and white alternatingly. I saw a video on youtube and it never turns red? Device defective?

Any configuration needed on the L88? I leave everything default and the ID is set to "2". by the system. I change to "1" it conflicts with another device. I change to "3" give the same result.

Thanks and regards,

Boody
Offline siroljuk  
#12 Posted : 15 November 2018 11:07:52(UTC)
siroljuk

Finland   
Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 377
Hi Boody.BigGrin

You have to configure your L88 right: Right amount of connected S88 devices and you have to configure all your connected S88 devices to right buss.
Hopefully your CS3Plus is updated because there was in earlier version all kind of troubles with L88 and its configurations.

If you have only L88 device please configure just 8 contacts to you system and then test if all contacts are working ok. Remember to connect earth(mass) right also.

My strong suggestion is: Make individual layout only for contacts and configure all contacts to your system ( every one). Remember to connect earth ( mass,... brown cable) to your first S88 device and only there. You don't have change any timings in L88 configuration in CS3plus.

Hope this will help you

Regards

Jukka

Offline clapcott  
#13 Posted : 15 November 2018 20:35:10(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
I am suspicious of the fact that every time I restart the system, the contact (K1) icon turns red

And so you should be.

The green dot test is a very good base to work from, and does mean the "box" is connected

As @siroljuk mentions, it is important to ensuring that the CS is at the latest level.

please provide a screenshot of
- the L88 configuration (expand the "Info" section in the area where you see the green dot)
- the (K1) port configuration
Peter
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#14 Posted : 16 November 2018 04:13:27(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi guys,

I thank you for your kind support. I try to rewire and reconfigure my test set up.

Lucky enough that the S88 connected to bus 1 on L88 works well.

I set 5 contact L1 to L5 for L88 and S1 to S5 for S88. During system startup, all L contacts turn red but S contact stays grey. And when I connect the corresponding terminal to ground, all S contact turn yellow but still no response on L contact.

Wrong contact configuration only makes the contact not responding but never turn it to become red during startup.

Based on this evidence, Can I conclude that my L88 is defective?

Thanks and regards,

Boody
Offline MaerklinLife  
#15 Posted : 16 November 2018 05:21:38(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
Based on this evidence, Can I conclude that my L88 is defective?

Nope. It almost never happens.

Check that you have set the operating mode correctly for your S88 LINK module (L88).

Go to the properties page for your S88 LINK module (System -> LinkS88) and set the "Settings 1-16" to "Single" for standard operating mode.

Also make sure that the contacts in your Article List are created with "Direct" under the Bus drop down list.

L88, LinkS88, S88 LINK (as written on the actual product). Märklin should clean up this confusing naming mess...
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by MaerklinLife
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#16 Posted : 16 November 2018 11:18:28(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi MaerklinLife,

All setting are correct... you have two choices for it, single and matrix.

All other setting is also correct. The only difference between L88 and S88 is the "direct" option. If my S88 is working through my defective L88, that means my S88 setting and the system setting is correct.

From my troubleshooting on the S88 those setting does not make my icon RED. The most is, I got no response. In my case, those red contact from my L88 does not give a response, whereas my S88 contact never goes RED.

Do you ever get any RED icon the way I do?

Thanks and regards,

Boody
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#17 Posted : 17 November 2018 02:32:34(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Latest update,

Being an electronic engineer, I agree with Maerklinlife that very unlikely my L88 got defective. However, I know that my new purchase L88 has been kept very long by the dealer. It's an old version and there is a high chance that the firmware is not compatible with the new CS3 upgrade.
I ever got a similar case with my turnout decoder. I got 11 decoders with different release year. After my CS3 upgrade, three of them stops responding. Unfortunately, I can not return to the old CS3 software to reconfirm this.


Knowing that my S88 contact is working well, I utilize this contact and only use my L88 as an interface device between my S88 and CS3.
However, now I had another issue, When I set my event and put the contact icon to trigger the event, there is a small question mark circle on the top left-hand side of the contact box. and when the contact track is trigger, this icon in the event box turn red and not yellow as it should be and the event did not start. But the same contact icon in my article list turns yellow.

Do I miss something or this anomaly is due to my defective L88?

Thanks and regards,

Boody
Offline MaerklinLife  
#18 Posted : 17 November 2018 05:14:16(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
All setting are correct... you have two choices for it, single and matrix.

Correct, and you should choosse Single. Which language is your CS3 set to? If you have english set, your options are "Single" or "Keyboard" in the latest edition. Easier to help you with exact guidiance knowing the language.

Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
All other setting is also correct. The only difference between L88 and S88 is the "direct" option. If my S88 is working through my defective L88, that means my S88 setting and the system setting is correct.

No. It means that the settings for your S88 module is correct, not necessarily the settings for your S88 LINK. Which is why I asked you to re-check those specific settings.

Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
From my troubleshooting on the S88 those setting does not make my icon RED. The most is, I got no response. In my case, those red contact from my L88 does not give a response, whereas my S88 contact never goes RED. Do you ever get any RED icon the way I do?

The contact becomes red when the CS3 cannot read the status of the feedback contact. Regardless of the contact being directly on the S88 LINK or an attached S88 module. Usually because the contact is created with wrong addressing of the module or if the module's settings are wrong.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#19 Posted : 17 November 2018 05:21:36(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
Being an electronic engineer, I agree with Maerklinlife that very unlikely my L88 got defective. However, I know that my new purchase L88 has been kept very long by the dealer. It's an old version and there is a high chance that the firmware is not compatible with the new CS3 upgrade.

Since a firmware update was never released for the S88 LINK, your module will work just as well as modules released yesterday. Mine is before the CS3 was ever produced and works like a charm.

Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
However, now I had another issue, When I set my event and put the contact icon to trigger the event, there is a small question mark circle on the top left-hand side of the contact box. and when the contact track is trigger, this icon in the event box turn red and not yellow as it should be and the event did not start. But the same contact icon in my article list turns yellow.

Do I miss something or this anomaly is due to my defective L88?

Clearly missing something, because this has nothing to do with anything. When you add S88 contacts to your an event's task list, the CS3 can use it for three things:

- Check the status of the contact and continue the event if the contact matches the expected status. This is shown by a "?" over the contact. If the contact does not meet the expected status the contact will turn red (in the event list) to show you that the event cannot continue. This is what you is experiencing.
- Wait until the contact reaches a particular status. This is shown by a "W" over the contact. This will not turn the contact red, but the event will simply pause until the status is reached and continue
- Set the contact's status to a particular status

Can you post screenshots of your settings for the S88 LINK module and your contacts? I would very much like to see them. I still believe they have a a flaw, somewhere.
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#20 Posted : 17 November 2018 08:22:11(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi Maerklinlife,

How do I post a screenshot in this forum?

I am 100% sure that I did not miss any setting that is very straightforward, even some were written in the German language.

Best regards,

Boody
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#21 Posted : 17 November 2018 08:48:18(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
- Check the status of the contact and continue the event if the contact matches the expected status. This is shown by a "?" over the contact. If the contact does not meet the expected status the contact will turn red (in the event list) to show you that the event cannot continue. This is what you is experiencing.


I monitor my contact status from the article list. When there is a car on top, the contact turns yellow, meaning the detection is working. However, the same contact in the event turns red at the same time and nothing happen.
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#22 Posted : 17 November 2018 08:49:59(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Can you post screenshots of your settings for the S88 LINK module and your contacts? I would very much like to see them. I still believe they have a flaw, somewhere.


Can tell me on how to post screenshot in this forum?
Offline MaerklinLife  
#23 Posted : 17 November 2018 09:14:11(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
I monitor my contact status from the article list. When there is a car on top, the contact turns yellow, meaning the detection is working. However, the same contact in the event turns red at the same time and nothing happen.

As I wrote: It turns red in the event task list because it is not the status the CS3 expects it to be in order to continue the event. It tells you simply that. It is not an error, it is by design.

Example:
If the contact with the "?" in the event list is pictured as grey in the event task list, the CS3 will expect the contact to be vacant in order to continue executing the event. If it is occupied when the CS3 performs this check, it will mark the contact red, because that was the stopping point of the event. The condition is not fullfilled, so the CS3 will not continue executing the event.
Offline budi@ups4.com  
#24 Posted : 17 November 2018 09:48:31(UTC)
budi@ups4.com

Singapore   
Joined: 01/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
As I wrote: It turns red in the event task list because it is not the status the CS3 expects it to be in order to continue the event. It tells you simply that. It is not an error, it is by design.


But in my case, it does not change, even when track occupation is detected. I already prepare my screenshot, but don't know how to show it to you.

my article list detects the occupation by turning yellow. But the event stays red even though I already set "continue" when "track occupied" (no delay was set)

Can I contact you by email? my email address is budi@ups4.com. you can also WA me at +65 8307 8324
Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 17 November 2018 17:50:12(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Can you post screenshots of your settings for the S88 LINK module and your contacts? I would very much like to see them. I still believe they have a flaw, somewhere.


Can tell me on how to post screenshot in this forum?


If you do a screenshot you save it as a jpg file. This you can add here in the same way as all other pictures. See the screenshot as your image file.

Perhaps the marklin-users.net help function does help you too.

https://www.marklin-user...lp_index?faq=attachments
Offline TEEWolf  
#26 Posted : 17 November 2018 19:54:49(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: budi@ups4.com Go to Quoted Post
Latest update,

Being an electronic engineer, I agree with Maerklinlife that very unlikely my L88 got defective. However, I know that my new purchase L88 has been kept very long by the dealer. It's an old version and there is a high chance that the firmware is not compatible with the new CS3 upgrade.
I ever got a similar case with my turnout decoder. I got 11 decoders with different release year. After my CS3 upgrade, three of them stops responding. Unfortunately, I can not return to the old CS3 software to reconfirm this.

Knowing that my S88 contact is working well, I utilize this contact and only use my L88 as an interface device between my S88 and CS3.
However, now I had another issue, When I set my event and put the contact icon to trigger the event, there is a small question mark circle on the top left-hand side of the contact box. and when the contact track is trigger, this icon in the event box turn red and not yellow as it should be and the event did not start. But the same contact icon in my article list turns yellow.

Do I miss something or this anomaly is due to my defective L88?

Thanks and regards,

Boody



Hello Boody,

I am not studding your thread about the feedback system from Märklin, I only scan it, if there is something of interest for myself. I do not use the Märklin feedback system yet, but read something about it before I bought my CS 3. Because of this I decided myself for a CS 3+ (60216), which has a partially built in L88 (60883). So I do not have to start a feedback system from a CS 3+ with a L88 (60833) as it is necessary at a CS 3 (60226). Because this L88 is the module to built up the galvanic isolation between the CS 3 60226 and the CAN bus. No other choice is possible.

I got the impression in your thread, you do not separate enough and very detailed between the various controller and feedback devices. For example you always write about a CS 3, but which one? In your case it is very important, if you use a CS 3 (60226) or a CS 3+ (60216).

As always again Märklin issued for a topic some further, by my point of view important informations, but only in German. I only want to draw your attention to this information even it is in German.

Here are the links for this information:

technique tip no. 322 - Presentation of the different feedback decoders s88 and link 88
https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-322.pdf

technical tip no. 320 - Use of the feedback modules L88, S88 AC and S88 DC
https://www.maerklin.de/...q/Technik-Tipp-320-b.pdf

technical tip no. 331 - Which components fit together with a CS 3/ CS 3 plus?
https://www.maerklin.de/...faq/Technik-Tipp-331.pdf

Frequently asked questions about the structure of a feedback system

https://www.maerklin.de/...bau_Rueckmeldesystem.pdf

Digital driving with the Central Station 3 - System Architecture Overview of the Märklin digital system architecture with all older components

https://www.maerklin.de/...emarchitektur_gesamt.pdf

Further overviews you will find at the end (page 38 and 39) of your CS 3 manual as PDF-file to download from the Märklin homepage.

https://static.maerklin....065db123781498138103.pdf

Best regards

TEEWolf

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