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Offline Jabez  
#1 Posted : 16 October 2018 21:24:37(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
I wonder how many members there are who run digital electric locos on their layouts and who have installed catenaries (whether the locos draw power from them or not) compared to those who run Elloks but don't bother with catenaries?
The realism of catenaries is self evident, but it must be set against the added cost and complication of their installation on a layout.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2018 21:39:15(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
I don't have catenary on my layout and I only have two electric locos. As I mainly have steam and diesel I am happy to run the electric without the overhead.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Carim  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2018 22:11:11(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
I think overhead wires do look better but they can cause operational difficulties.

I use some of the Marklin posts and cross spans but I don't like their Z gauge running wires - I find them too bulky. So I tried soldering 0.4 mm copper wires between the posts. Those wires were too fragile and keep on getting bent at the slightest touch. So off they came.

Then I tried some "EZ Line" (elasticated cord)- unfortunately, I chose the fine, black line and it turned out to be virtually invisible! It was a nightmare stringing it between the posts but I covered nearly half of my layout. I found it wasn't a problem when cleaning tracks as the line had quite some give in it. But when I had a derailment over some complex pointwork, I didn't spot some "wires " and my loco got tangled in them as I tried to re-rail it and I ripped a few "wires" off the posts. So off they all came as well.

Now I am trying to fabricate individual pieces (like Marklin 8922) out of 0.5mm copper wire. Let's see how that goes. At least I am getting better at soldering!
BigGrin

Carim
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#4 Posted : 16 October 2018 22:12:53(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
I just put up the masts. It works great as an illusion. In reality you cannot see the 1:87 scale catenary wire anyway.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 16 October 2018 23:05:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many members there are who run digital electric locos on their layouts and who have installed catenaries (whether the locos draw power from them or not) compared to those who run Elloks but don't bother with catenaries?
The realism of catenaries is self evident, but it must be set against the added cost and complication of their installation on a layout.
Jabez


Hi Jabez,
Thanks for your question.
For myself it was a no-brainer, if I run electric I had to match the delivery equipment.

That said I do agree wholeheartedly with MaerklinLife.
If you do not have any or all of the following: money, time, patience, energy or whatever to install catenary, I think that MaerklinLife's method is a perfectly accepatable solution.

My experience using C track and the latest Maerklin catenary system is that it is entirely robust, and purposefully elegant.
It takes a lot of effort to install it correctly as devised and suggested by Maerklin.
I was super-committed and determined when I did that.
But in following that advice, I have nearly 20 metres of catenary and it works flawlessly.

Maybe once or twice a year, a pantograph may get caught on an outrigger arm, or the pantograph might jump away from the catenary and snag at the next opportunity.
They are the only two mishaps I have.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Online Dave Banks  
#6 Posted : 16 October 2018 23:15:33(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Jabez, I would love to have what Kimball has but it costs a lot of money & oh so many hours to set up. I have the layout out of the 1971 Marklin catalog using C-Track & the older green masts of the Marklin Catenary & it is just for ascetic looks. Older Markin catenary would just have been problematic from word go to run a digital system off.

Edited by user 17 October 2018 11:35:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

D.A.Banks
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 16 October 2018 23:23:36(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
just the poles and masts. 1:87 scale wire is impossible/impractical.

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/search?q=catenary
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Michael4  
#8 Posted : 16 October 2018 23:57:11(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
I use M track and traditional powered catenary, good fun to turn the lights off at night and watch the pantographs sparking on the dirtier bits!. It is quite robust until some oaf tangles their hands up in it.
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Offline jcrtrains  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2018 00:46:49(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Look at the cost closely before starting. Build a spreadsheet of what a good straight and curved section of the layout will need.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 17 October 2018 05:24:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I thank the honorable member for his question,

I'm only from a few modelers who have installed a prototypical catenary (except the thickness of the wires).
My intention to install an overhead system started right from the beginning when I've decided to build a layout, although I started with Märklin catenary.

It has been said by dealers and manufacturers don't install a catenary when operating a digital layout, my experience over 30 years has been the contrary, I've never had any problems with it, back in the days of the analog system eventually along came the digital system and somewhere in that time frame Sommerfeldt.de came to the rescue.

there are also other remarks associated with: its to awkward to handle locos /carriages with an overhead system, I've found when you get used to it its not a problem at all and the reason for it its so rigid you can't really break anything. I've bumped several masts in the past (on the edge of the layout) and will do so most probably again in the future but I've reinforced these particular masts so they can withstand another bump.
As Kimball already mentioned its not cheap, easy and it takes patience and to go for the long haul.

Märklin/HAG has the best overhead pantographs with Roco diminishing its quality and reliability, Piko I don't think has ever been a contender using their electric locos with an operating catenary system.,
another factor is most if not all manufacturers these days have no electrical contacts anymore between pantograph and the loco's electrical contact.

I have many videos displaying the uninterrupted and save operation of electric locos on my layout and it is a pleasure watching it.
there is another benefit running locos via the catenary on a Märklin 3 rail system, you don't have to be dependent on 3 rail locos you can also buy or run DC locos without the pick up shoe.
What this means you can get away from Märklin locos and buy any DC loco from another manufacturer and as it always has been in my case when buying 3 rail locos from other manufacturers then Märklin, 1 axle was always none powered whereas 2 rail all axles are powered. this gave me an advantage to increase the rubber tyres on locos as well so these days all my locos have 4 rubber tyres ( 1 axle on each bogie) and with Co-Co locos I can increase it to 2 axles per bogie.
I have 1 Märklin loco left which I've used in the early days of operating electric locos via the pantograph (Märklin overhead system) and I've noticed the pantopraph had been excessively used in the middle of the wiper which of course doesn't happen with a prototypical setup.
Also in the early analog days you were able to run your diesel and steam locos from the track and your electric locos independent from the overhead wires.
the next question is or was how do I install braking sections and also contact sections (switching tracks) I've tried one design but decided it wasn't reliable so my next adventure was the design of the opto coupler , it is activated via the slider from steam & diesel locos and a silver strip under the loco from electric locos. braking sections are made the same way one would do them for steam and diesel locos (activating section, braking section and stop section).
one option we haven't contemplated and this is a hidden fiddle yard with an overhead system, my layout hasn't got any hidden yards (thanks God) but this I could see as a problem getting access to it

another thing had to be included when running consists so the activating section is long enough for 2 locos., isolating wires from a crossbeam section or diagonally crossing wires., outer arms had also be isolated from cross beam masts.

the question of course is : is it all worth it ? with everything you shuffle in your brain forwards and backwards its the individual final decision to go for it or leave it for another day/year, and when you make the decision to go ahead there is no turning back unless you've lost the will to live, your hands are shaking, your eye side has diminished or your concentration has left you years ago.

John


construction (8).JPG

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finished construction (12).JPG

finished construction (13).JPG

construction (6).JPG

new.JPG

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construction (5).JPG

new 1.JPG

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Bonn station (1).JPG

construction (1).JPG

Bonn station (2).JPG

new 2.JPG

new 3.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline PJMärklin  
#11 Posted : 17 October 2018 05:49:52(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many members there are who run digital electric locos on their layouts and who have installed catenaries (whether the locos draw power from them or not) compared to those who run Elloks but don't bother with catenaries?
The realism of catenaries is self evident, but it must be set against the added cost and complication of their installation on a layout.
Jabez


Hello Jabez,


see :

https://www.marklin-user...rklin-Catalog#post507185


Regards,

PJ
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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 17 October 2018 05:50:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
Jabez, I would love to have what Kimball has but it costs a lot of money & oh so many hours to set up. I have the layout out of the 1971 catalog using C-Track & the older green mast Marklin Catenary & it is just for ascetic looks. Older Markin catenary would just have been problematic from word go to run a digital system off.


Older Markin catenary would just have been problematic from word go to run a digital system off., not in my case Dave

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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GLI
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 17 October 2018 06:06:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Look at the cost closely before starting. Build a spreadsheet of what a good straight and curved section of the layout will need.


This is very good point but my catenary, I think I had a bottomless money pit.

there are x amount of parts you need (Sommerfeldt) most parts you can calculate such as masts, cross span masts, finished overhead wires (20 in pack) or single wire (20 in pack = 1mm, 0.7mm ), green isolators (12 in pack) brown (16 in pack), these are just a few examples.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Markus Schild  
#14 Posted : 17 October 2018 07:44:08(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

I use the classic catenary with M-track. Usually I use classic AC. On one circuit I run the cantenary with DC. This allows to run DC-locos with pantographs on the same track without any technical changes. Older FLEISCHMANN locos for example run well also on M-track.

Regards

Markus
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Offline Michael4  
#15 Posted : 17 October 2018 09:30:47(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
A traditional analogue 'party trick' using catenary is to make the carriage lighting come on automatically as the train goes into a tunnel...
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Offline TrainIride  
#16 Posted : 17 October 2018 09:48:33(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,904
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many members there are who run digital electric locos on their layouts and who have installed catenaries (whether the locos draw power from them or not) compared to those who run Elloks but don't bother with catenaries?
The realism of catenaries is self evident, but it must be set against the added cost and complication of their installation on a layout.
Jabez


Hi, I have installed old catenary on my C-Track layout.
I am really happy with this cat-proof system.

When the layout is set to digital, no power on the catenary:




When the layout is set to analog, well, analog power on it:



Even if this catenary is a bit thick, it is strong and reliable and easy to set up,
and not expensive in second hand.

It is a great pleasure to run locos with pantograph up, on this kind of metal spider web BigGrin !

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 17 October 2018 10:18:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, here is the latest video from my electrified layout, there had been many more videos with the power coming from the overhead wires

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Michael4  
#18 Posted : 17 October 2018 11:16:36(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
UserPostedImageIMG_3273 by dralowid, on Flickr

Using old 'M' catenary on a small layout. No cutting and soldering, no cheating! It is not so much a question of cost (all secondhand) more the fact that one never has the right bit at the right time.
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Offline Drongo  
#19 Posted : 17 October 2018 11:28:47(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
I found this thread interesting and it raises a question in my mind.

By installing the catenary system, does this give a seperate power supply i.e. can the catenary system be powered by a booster?
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline amartinezv  
#20 Posted : 17 October 2018 12:10:13(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,
Hello good morning

In my case, my model is digital and I do have electric locomotives. I have some catenary posts especially in the main station and a couple of catenary wires, more than anything, to make photos. The electric locomotives run with the pantographs lowered although I thought of putting a very fine nylon wire to carry them slightly raised, this I have not done yet. For a while I was installing the catenary but it was very complicated and interfered when cleaning or railing the rolling stock.

[img=https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidruso/1385310378/in/album-72157602024959467/]märklin 3768 with catenary[/img]
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline Michael4  
#21 Posted : 17 October 2018 12:37:06(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
I found this thread interesting and it raises a question in my mind.

By installing the catenary system, does this give a seperate power supply i.e. can the catenary system be powered by a booster?


In the analogue world the catenary can be powered by another transformer or a separate controller like Marklin 6699 which could take power from the controller that powers the track (if there is enough power (VA))
Offline river6109  
#22 Posted : 17 October 2018 13:53:12(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I hope you don't mind I've corrected the link

märklin 3768 with catenary]from Spain
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline DaleSchultz  
#23 Posted : 17 October 2018 14:42:44(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
when I tried catenary 16 years aga I used the lovely Sommerfeld stuff.

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2002/05/Sommerfeld-catenary.html

then the cat walked into it and bent it, once bent you have to start over.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 17 October 2018 16:23:47(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have Viessmann catenary, the one which is identical to Marklin new-type catenary. I never liked the old Marklin catenary as it has wires curving in mid-air; a physical impossibility in reality!

Perfect adjustment of the position of the wires is crucial for locos with narrow pantograph wipers. I once had to remove all the catenary to do some track cleaning and maintenance and once replaced I could not get all the sections back in the ideal positions.

Because of this I now run my locos with the pantographs down unless I'm going to photograph or video them.

I also decided not to have all my tracks fitted with catenary. The outer loop of my double track main line was meant to be the last phase of my catenary fitting but because of the problems I decided to postpone it indefinitely. This gives me a nice straight track at the edge of the board without catenary which is handy for putting trains on the track.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#25 Posted : 17 October 2018 16:35:31(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


Perfect adjustment of the position of the wires is crucial for locos with narrow pantograph wipers. I once had to remove all the catenary to do some track cleaning and maintenance and once replaced I could not get all the sections back in the ideal positions.


Yes, it can get very tricky. Here is a trick that makes it much easier:
https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2002/05/catenary-guide.html
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline RayF  
#26 Posted : 17 October 2018 18:43:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


Perfect adjustment of the position of the wires is crucial for locos with narrow pantograph wipers. I once had to remove all the catenary to do some track cleaning and maintenance and once replaced I could not get all the sections back in the ideal positions.


Yes, it can get very tricky. Here is a trick that makes it much easier:
https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2002/05/catenary-guide.html


Thanks Dale, I have a similar guide. One of the problems is that some locos have their pantographs some distance away from the centre of the bogie pivots, and the early electrics with a rigid wheelbase have an unpredictable overhang, in which cases you have to have a greater deviation from the centre of the track.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#27 Posted : 17 October 2018 19:17:10(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I think I made mine to NEM Norms, so yes, trying to run out of norm locos would be rather messy on tight radii. Perhaps just run those ones pants down...
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Minok  
#28 Posted : 17 October 2018 22:31:30(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I've not deployed catenary yet - but will to some extent.
At a minimum, I'll be placing the posts/towers along the lines. Whether that will be Viessmann for the lower cost/easy install, or Sommerfeldt for the more robust, expensive and labor intensive install, is still to be determined.

In all cases, there is the question of positioning the pantograph of the locos. Some locos let me controll the height of the pickup, others will require mechanical restriction of the height of the roof pickups - the goal is to NOT have the pickups touching the bottom of the wires or ensuring they are blow the arms from the trackside poles/towers. In the digital world, I won't power anything from the catenary, I have no old analog gear. Modern delicate pantograph cannot conduct power anyway.

My ESU loco has digital control of how high up the panto goes, but beyond that...

Some modelers use mono-filament or other strings to hold the spring-loaded pickups at a maximum height without touching (some 1-2mm below where the wire is or would be).


Then there are aftermarket parts designed to slip into the pantograph to control how high the pickup goes.


I don't know which approach I'll use, or if some other options will be available by the time I get to actually building my catenary solution, but I'm pretty sure I'll use one of them.

Once I start building and seeing how it looks then I may decide if I want to actually run wires along, ie install the actual catenary beyond just the posts/towers. That is where a huge part of the labor and expense can come in.

Edited by user 19 October 2018 21:41:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
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Online kiwiAlan  
#29 Posted : 17 October 2018 22:49:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I think I made mine to NEM Norms, so yes, trying to run out of norm locos would be rather messy on tight radii. Perhaps just run those ones pants down...


Maybe Great Western Railway should have done the same when testing their new Hitachi trains in Paddington Station ...

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Offline Kanga  
#30 Posted : 18 October 2018 09:08:33(UTC)
Kanga

Australia   
Joined: 27/07/2017(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Northern Territory, Australia
The theme of my layout IS catenary - a fictitious Swedish/German village with a Catenary maintenance depot (the Faller one) along with all the items that go with it. Tram line down the main street as well with Sommerfeldt simple overhead.

Karl
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#31 Posted : 18 October 2018 12:03:31(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Jabez Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many members there are who run digital electric locos on their layouts and who have installed catenaries (whether the locos draw power from them or not) compared to those who run Elloks but don't bother with catenaries?
The realism of catenaries is self evident, but it must be set against the added cost and complication of their installation on a layout.
Jabez


Hi Jabez

Almost all has already been said.
For me in a station area, with covered platforms, operation is very difficult in case of malfunction, re-railing, etc.
I am not using the catenary for any electrical purpose (I use digital) and in non visible zones there is no catenary.
I am not deploying panthographs as the risk to damage them is high.
To limit the damage and the cost only one part of my layout is electrified, the rest is for steam and a little diesel. This provides for interesting operation (with Rocrail)
Cheers

Jean
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Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 18 October 2018 13:15:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, one common problem I have is the current pantographs fixed to locos except Märklin and some locos (Roco) have the tendency to move sideways the moment you're putting pressure on from the pantographs versus over head wires.
Narrow SBB wipers could result in getting caught in the overhead system and also I've noticed if your pantograph is up in the front or the back of the loco.
being a Märklin forum you shouldn't experience any of the problem above (Sommerfeldt or a well fixed catenary).

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Jabez  
#33 Posted : 18 October 2018 21:16:20(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Thank you all for the interesting and helpful comments. ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
Reading them has been an education. As Jean writes, 'Almost all has already been said.' and that is very true.
Jabez
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Online kiwiAlan  
#34 Posted : 18 October 2018 22:39:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I think I made mine to NEM Norms, so yes, trying to run out of norm locos would be rather messy on tight radii. Perhaps just run those ones pants down...


Maybe Great Western Railway should have done the same when testing their new Hitachi trains in Paddington Station ...



According to a report I saw in a newspaper today, Hitachi were testing a 'new style pantograph' and intimated that Hitachi were going to have to pay a considerable restitution bill for the more than 24 hour closure of Paddington station, along with a half kilometer of trashed catenary. somehow it managed to damage the catenary across about 6 tracks ...
Offline Markus Schild  
#35 Posted : 18 October 2018 23:33:55(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi all,

Just one other trick with catenary from grandfathers layout: Today an automatic reversing train is no problem on a digital layout. On a classic conventional AC-layout catenary also could be used to reach this. Also Märklin did it on showroom-layouts: At a conventional locomotive the reverse - unit is removed and the one wire of the field-coil is connected to the slider and the other wire to the pantograph. So the loco runs in one direction when it gets the the power from the slider and in the other direction when it gets the current from the catenary. At the layout just some contact rails and a 7045 remote switch are needed to have an automatic reversing train. Märklin added a time switch so the loco had a delay before starting again but that is not needed.

Regards

Markus
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Offline PJMärklin  
#36 Posted : 19 October 2018 15:44:23(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Maybe Great Western Railway should have done the same when testing their new Hitachi trains in Paddington Station ...


Hello Alan (?),


I note with interest the images and concerns at Paddington Station.

We also encountered a concerning issue ... a lost soul... (in the "left luggage" department actually) ... when exploring Paddington Station in 2016 :


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Regards,

PJ


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Offline hxmiesa  
#37 Posted : 06 November 2018 13:00:26(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
I install it, but only in visible parts, just for the looks of it.
I prefer to install the wires, even if they tend to be hopelessly out of scale.

I use the older Märklin masts, (The model just before they got the Viessmann stuff), but use "other" brands for wires.
Most of it is from spanish "Aneste"; It´s compatible withe old-style Märklin wire, but is made of fine 0,7mm (¿?) copper-wire.
(Some masts are from spanish Electrotren, but are practically just copies of the Märklin design. Albeit at less cost)
I also use some HOBBEX stuff. This is rather fragile, but also very cheap.
I do not "bend" the wire over the curves. As RayF has mentioned; that is a physical impossibility. -However I do "cheat" a little in a few places where R2 (even R1) curves are used in a visible area. (These are just a few singular spots) -as so many masts would look even more ridiculous than the bend wire.

As I only install the caternary in visible areas, this helps a lot on the budget, and the "hidden yard" problem. (of which I have a lot!)
As soon as a train disappears in a tunnel, the wire goes up and the panto can extend to its full height. In many places I have had to install "catchers" that presses the panto down, so that the loc can pass underneath ramps and whatnot.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Leitner  
#38 Posted : 06 November 2018 18:57:39(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
I tried to install catenary in my layout and it was a huge pain... At the end I decided to take down everything, also because in any case it's set between Denmark and Northern Germany in a time when catenary were not really a thing there...

Overall speaking due to that I try to avoid to purchase electric loco.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
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Offline dickinsonj  
#39 Posted : 07 November 2018 00:42:40(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post

Overall speaking due to that I try to avoid to purchase electric loco.


I don't have catenary but I still have many electric locos. There are lots of things on our layouts that don't fit with reality and I just accept not having catenary as one of them.

Maybe I will live long enough to eventually put up some overhead wires, but I doubt that it will ever happen. I have been surprised to hear how many other people don't bother - I assumed that I was an exceptional slacker. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#40 Posted : 07 November 2018 03:25:56(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
For me, one of the biggest attractions for Märklin WAS the catenary, the classic 50's-80's style we all know and 'love'.

Although my current small demo layout does not have it installed, it did originally before I got it but had been removed. I can easily replace it but just have not yet got around to it, although I may limit myself to just one of the three ovals.

I love the look of a pantograph actually working. Yes I agree it does make access harder for derailments etc and there's always the risk of it getting tangled, however much as it may irk the purists, I'll be happy to curve the overhead rather than lots of short straight sections, you really can't avoid it unless you are lucky to have long sweeping curves, then it makes sense. With the more solid classic catenary curved to follow the centre rail, any snags are few and far between.

I would not use any of the narrow pantographs for exactly that reason.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline RayF  
#41 Posted : 07 November 2018 10:04:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Another point that comes down against catenary is the way it gets in the way of photographing our models. Since I put up my limited catenary I have fewer angles I can use, and many of those that I still use have at least one catenary mast cutting my locos in half!

One of my favourite shots was from slightly above roof-top height, but most of my camera locations now have a catenary wire in the way making the shot unusable. Aargh!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#42 Posted : 07 November 2018 13:38:29(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Well for Ray and Cookee I've got the answer, Ray all you need is a drone and your problems are solved, saw one from Wunderland and another one from a Swiss layout.

Cookee, one has to have patience and not to get tangled with emotions because the train derailed., yes it is a nuisance but so is any derailment, by running a loco beforehand at low speed you can test the overhead wires with different locos (wider or narrower pantograph and if you see any abnormalities you can adjust the wire., this is what I do.

the pictures show one of these accidents but all in all no damage done at all, I just had to work out how to get the little shunting loco out of this mess

John

new.JPG

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https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline LoeM  
#43 Posted : 14 November 2018 11:39:11(UTC)
LoeM

Netherlands   
Joined: 18/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Zuid-Holland
My first layout : M rails, analogue, with catenary, used for powering electric locs. I did love the classic Marklin catenary. But accidents so now en then.

My layout now: K rails, digital, no catenary, no masts. All electric locos have pantographs up. An electric loc with all pantographs down cannot pull a train!


UserPostedImage
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