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Offline owidgie  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2018 18:49:12(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 62
Location: SoCal
Hello all, I have a pair of Class 89s that don't seem to run.

While I am very familiar with Marklin HO, I lack knowledge when it comes to Z scale. Being these Class 89s are so simple, I can't help but feel hurt because I can't get them running.

Both locos do the same thing, I apply power with a Marklin Z transformer (6727) but the motors do not turn, I have cleaned the brushes and armature.

I can feel the motor vibrating and I can sometimes get the motor to run if I flick the armature to get it started. It will run for a few seconds then the transformer overloads. If I just let the motor try to run without flicking the armature, the motor does not turn and the transformer overloads.

I am wondering if the motor needs to be replaced in both locos or maybe the capacitor?

I tried new brushes with not change in performance.

I would appreciate any advice one can give.

Thanks

Rick
Offline zscalehobo  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2018 21:40:30(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Are the wheels stuck? HoS (hardened oil syndrome) is a scourge of dated/stagnant Marklin Z. Try cleaning the wheelsets and then re-installing. If you don't know how to quarter them (timing) check "8864 take apart" video on YouTube.

While the wheels are removed, you can test the motor by itself without any loading. This will prove or eliminate the HOS situation.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by zscalehobo
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2018 22:40:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,150
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post

I am wondering if the motor needs to be replaced in both locos or maybe the capacitor?

I tried new brushes with not change in performance.

I would appreciate any advice one can give.

Thanks

Rick


I suspect there is a short in the armature, possibly a short between two segments of the commutator where the brushes touch. It could be that the gap between commutator sections os filled with carbon, and needs a pointed tool like a dentists tooth pick to scrape down the gap to clean it out.

Personally I would look at replacing it with a new motor with a 5 pole armature, but i don't know if they drop into these locos. My experience with Z gauge os very limited.
Offline zscalehobo  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2018 23:36:50(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


I suspect there is a short in the armature, possibly a short between two segments of the commutator where the brushes touch. It could be that the gap between commutator sections os filled with carbon, and needs a pointed tool like a dentists tooth pick to scrape down the gap to clean it out.

Personally I would look at replacing it with a new motor with a 5 pole armature, but i don't know if they drop into these locos. My experience with Z gauge os very limited.


They don't drop in. It requires using an arbor press or gear puller to remove the worm gear. At this moment, I no longer do this service as I have damaged the brass bushing rendering the chassis unusable. But the armatures are available. 209454 ... so someone must be able to do it! Marklin started supplying these armatures again about six months ago. need a new worm gear 260050 when you change it.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 06 October 2018 19:30:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,150
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


I suspect there is a short in the armature, possibly a short between two segments of the commutator where the brushes touch. It could be that the gap between commutator sections os filled with carbon, and needs a pointed tool like a dentists tooth pick to scrape down the gap to clean it out.

Personally I would look at replacing it with a new motor with a 5 pole armature, but i don't know if they drop into these locos. My experience with Z gauge os very limited.


They don't drop in. It requires using an arbor press or gear puller to remove the worm gear. At this moment, I no longer do this service as I have damaged the brass bushing rendering the chassis unusable. But the armatures are available. 209454 ... so someone must be able to do it! Marklin started supplying these armatures again about six months ago. need a new worm gear 260050 when you change it.


I thought they supplied the motor as a complete unit. It is a long time since I looked at any Z gauge stuff, so am well out of the loop. I didn't realise they supplied just the armature.

Offline zscalehobo  
#6 Posted : 09 October 2018 19:15:07(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

I thought they supplied the motor as a complete unit. It is a long time since I looked at any Z gauge stuff, so am well out of the loop. I didn't realise they supplied just the armature.


All of their motors EXCEPT vertical mounts using the 209454 are a complete unit. This is the only one, but it's used on several loks.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 09 October 2018 21:34:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,150
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: zscalehobo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

I thought they supplied the motor as a complete unit. It is a long time since I looked at any Z gauge stuff, so am well out of the loop. I didn't realise they supplied just the armature.


All of their motors EXCEPT vertical mounts using the 209454 are a complete unit. This is the only one, but it's used on several loks.


Ah, thanks.

Offline owidgie  
#8 Posted : 27 February 2020 00:19:50(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 62
Location: SoCal
Hi guys. it has been a long road for these two class 89s. Thanks for the help and I took your advice and ordered the armatures. And yes, I did destroy the bushing in the frame also.

At that point I went in a new direction. I have been able to retrofit a new motor into these locos. They run as good as new now (literally). In fact, with this process, I can even make old frames that have a destroyed lower bushing usable again.


I can do this for the following locos

8800 - 8801 - 8803 - 8804 - 8805 - 8864 - 8865 - 8895


So there is hope if someone wants their loco fixed.

I have tried to upload a short video of the finished loco, I'm not sure if I was successful. My repair skills are far superior than my computer skills!

Rick

Z motor Upgrade Short.mov (11,143kb) downloaded 27 time(s).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by owidgie
Jay
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