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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 11 August 2018 07:56:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
Yesterday i did read an researcher did said year 2050 the plastic details become more than fishes outside in the oceans. Scared
So i wonder if there is anyone of you who wanted to support our world by stop plastic details and buy laser cut buildings instead when you build up an layout?
I do really like laser cut and they looks more realistic.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 11 August 2018 08:30:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I do really like laser cut and they looks more realistic.
Laser-cut has its limitations and still needs plastic details. 3D printing is plastic again.

Plastic parts are potentially dangerous and must be disposed in a sensible and responsible way. There are many lazy and insensible people in the world and therefore too much plastic ends up in the oceans.

Layouts are built to last a long time. Masses of plastic coffee spoons get disposed after a one-time use - but some plastic coffee spoons end on permanent layouts.

I try to support the world by acting sensible and responsible.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline PhillipL  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2018 13:17:29(UTC)
PhillipL

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I do really like laser cut and they looks more realistic.
Laser-cut has its limitations and still needs plastic details. 3D printing is plastic again.

Plastic parts are potentially dangerous and must be disposed in a sensible and responsible way. There are many lazy and insensible people in the world and therefore too much plastic ends up in the oceans.

Layouts are built to last a long time. Masses of plastic coffee spoons get disposed after a one-time use - but some plastic coffee spoons end on permanent layouts.

I try to support the world by acting sensible and responsible.


I totally agree with you. Plastic along with paper, metal etc. should be recycled which is easy where I live because every home is issued a recycle bin.
Offline Will  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2018 14:55:36(UTC)
Will

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
I think where I live, a big issue is laziness in people just trashing plastic instead of recycling. Disposable water bottles are convenient but a huge issue, and you see tons of them at sporting events and the like.

We have home containers, which appear full to me on collection day, but away from home, people may not make effort to find a recycling bin (and they are not always as prevalent as trash cans) And many offices lack recycling bins. I am getting one for my office. That said, if I recall, another issue is if recyclers in China will continue to accept plastic, as apparently that's where much is recycled.

I think it's also a question of just moderating our use of plastics for some items. Aluminum cans instead of plastic bottles etc. You see a few aluminum "bottles", which to me seem a good idea.

Offline David Dewar  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2018 20:55:06(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,340
Location: Scotland
Plastic kits for me. I put them on the layout not in the sea. We also recycle our plastic ,paper and glass etc all go in separate bins to be collected.
Too much plastic packaging which for many items is not required.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline applor  
#6 Posted : 13 August 2018 03:04:50(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,654
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Yesterday i did read an researcher did said year 2050 the plastic details become more than fishes outside in the oceans. Scared
So i wonder if there is anyone of you who wanted to support our world by stop plastic details and buy laser cut buildings instead when you build up an layout?
I do really like laser cut and they looks more realistic.


The problem isn't plastic, the problem is single use plastic.

People use plastic packaging and bags etc. and throw them away, as opposed to models which are built and used for many years and in quantities so small as to not even register.

modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 13 August 2018 20:19:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Plastic kits in cardboard boxes. Keep the kits for ever and recycle the boxes!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline pab  
#8 Posted : 14 August 2018 10:40:33(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,752
I do like the laser cut buildings that use wood and (thick) cardboard (like the ones from Busch). I don't like the thin cardboard kits. Those are instable and often ugly looking.

At home we separate our garbage; plastic, glass, paper, kitchen and garden goes all in sperate bins. A free plastic bag isn't allowed in the Netherlands for sometime now, so we use our own bags while shopping.
I agree that waste is a problem, so we have to be careful.
Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 14 August 2018 11:30:18(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,340
Location: Scotland
Just had a thought that some kits have lots of sprues ..almost as much plastic as the actual building … so it is important it is recycled after finishing the build.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 14 August 2018 20:14:45(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Good point David! Does anyone know if the plastic from Plastic kits is recyclable? What about the plastic from Plastic soldiers, which is softer and more flexible?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline 1borna  
#11 Posted : 14 August 2018 21:31:21(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,346
Location: Hrvatska
Today there are thousands of different plastics, from banal and cheap to high-quality and expensive. Plastic recycling usually does not look at what kind of products they mix together. Over time, plastic mixing has been recycled several times and the end product is very questionable?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 14 August 2018 22:47:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,102
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Good point David! Does anyone know if the plastic from Plastic kits is recyclable? What about the plastic from Plastic soldiers, which is softer and more flexible?


When one of Carstens trips to Germany visited Vollmer they had drums that had break offs from the sprue pieces where the excess plastic from the mold injection point had been broken off had been loaded into for reuse. The biggest trick was knowing exactly which colour had been used to produce the sprue so that when it went back into the mix it didn't contaminate the original plastic colour bits it was mixed with.

Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 14 August 2018 22:57:54(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I prefer the plastic kits (polystyrene or something very close to it). Not sure if the sprues and bits are recyclable.
Paper/wood laser kits are good in some aspects but they can only do flat things well, and are sensitive to water - so I'd rather limit the damage to a layout due to damp/water issues and coffee spills.

On the recycling - in the US there is very specific types only that are recycled and its such a mess of the various forms of plastic from polystyrene to PTFE types, etc ( https://learn.eartheasy....plastics-by-the-numbers/ )
#1 - PET (Polyethylene Terephthalate) ...
#2 - HDPE (High-Density Polyethylene) ...
#3 – PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride) ...
#4 – LDPE (Low-Density Polyethylene) ...
#5 – PP (Polypropylene) ...
#6 – PS (Polystyrene)...

So IF #6 is recycleable and if they can identify it from the small bits you toss in the bin who knows. That the stuff gets bundled and shipped around the world for recycling is likely some of the problem. Because I'd think if its small plastic bits from models and I send it in the trash to my local landfill, then it should STAY at the landfill. How the heck is it ending up in rivers/streams/oceans. Its not that light that it will blow away. But load up a bunch of stuff in un-shielded bundles on trucks and drive them to a port and load them on ships and ship them around the world, I can see how a lot of stuff blows free or the ship looses loads and things end up in the oceans. Though a lot of the plastic waste in the oceans isn't from any of that - it is from the washed out debris from coastal communities and trash not disposed of in a landfill.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 15 August 2018 08:14:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know if the plastic from Plastic kits is recyclable?
There are not many items where recycling really works.
Plastic items will usually get down-cycled (low quality products) or they will get burned (they need fuel to keep the waste incineration running - and often collected plastics will be used as fuel).
At least they do not end up in the ocean or otherwise in the nature where they can do harm to animals or humans.

Many plastic kits are PS - just like styrofoam or CD cases. Can be recycled, but I do not see many items advertised as "recycled".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PJMärklin  
#15 Posted : 15 August 2018 13:48:22(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Yesterday i did read an researcher did said year 2050 the plastic details become more than fishes outside in the oceans. Scared
So i wonder if there is anyone of you who wanted to support our world by stop plastic details and buy laser cut buildings instead when you build up an layout?
I do really like laser cut and they looks more realistic.


Hello there Anders, BigGrin

But this means forever cutting down our planet's forests to provide the wood for laser cut models OhMyGod, whereas previously we have made skilful use of plastic, an otherwise difficult, wasted, by-product of the petroleum industry (even greenies drive cars) to make these lovely model buildings which will live on forever in beauty on our layouts and not be cast aside to cause havok in the world of conservationists. Wink
(hope I am not unleashing a whirlwind here with a cheeky comment)

The rural garage in the top righthand corner of the following image (a scene from the coal mine area on the upper level of my layout) is a laser-cut wood product kit I brought home from a visit to Göppingen. The detail is good, and better than you would expect from the composition of the model but I found it a trifle more challenging to construct effectively and thought it was somewhat less detailed compared with the excellent plastic-kit ( Vollmer, Faller & Kibri) buildings that predominate on my layout :


UserPostedImage


I hope you are enjoying a good summer on the Kattergat ThumpUp :


UserPostedImage


Best Wishes and Greetings from the Southern Hemisphere,


PJ


Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 15 August 2018 14:29:48(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
Nice pictures!

I agree about difference between plastic buildings and laser cut.
Problem is to avoid into future if we can reduce shopping plastic details.
In Sweden we do also have recycle plastic parts but not always do we that.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline PJMärklin  
#17 Posted : 15 August 2018 14:58:06(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Will Go to Quoted Post
I think where I live, a big issue is laziness in people just trashing plastic instead of recycling. Disposable water bottles are convenient but a huge issue, and you see tons of them at sporting events and the like.

We have home containers, which appear full to me on collection day, but away from home, people may not make effort to find a recycling bin (and they are not always as prevalent as trash cans) And many offices lack recycling bins. I am getting one for my office. That said, if I recall, another issue is if recyclers in China will continue to accept plastic, as apparently that's where much is recycled.

I think it's also a question of just moderating our use of plastics for some items. Aluminum cans instead of plastic bottles etc. You see a few aluminum "bottles", which to me seem a good idea.



Hiya Willie,

I agree with your sentiments.

I think that in the "English-speaking peoples of the world" (as Winston Churchill put it), in most of Europe and the reasonably urbanised areas of South America and Asia, that folk all have the opportunity of appropriate recycling "bins" to put various things in. As you say, the only missing ingredient is the volition of folk to use them.

In regard to your comment re recyclers in china, see : http://www.abc.net.au/ne...dustry-in-a-mess/9243184

Pardon my mirth, but I was quite taken by "via ... bini" (all the major subdivisions of bins are there) that I encountered on the island of Elba (Italy, but Napoleon-influenced history) last month :


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


UserPostedImage


But I must admit (Deutschophile that I am) that no-one does the variety, multiplicity and determination of the various domestic recycling bins as our German colleagues (onya ordnung !!).



Regards,

PJ
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