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Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#1 Posted : 31 July 2018 22:10:53(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
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Just wanting to ask the forum members, how many here would be interested if Marklin produced the 2007 Prince of Wales, this locomotive is actually a new build of the LNER (London North Eastern Railway) P2 class designed by Sir Nigel Gresley. The 2007 is actually a new build that is being done by the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust that built the 60163 A1 Tornado

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1407030846180541/

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Offline MaerklinLife  
#2 Posted : 31 July 2018 23:14:07(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Personally: No. I have nu use for UK material.

Then again: I am not a die hard collector. I run what fits the prototype that I'm modelling.

Collectors would surely buy it "just because". There are also those who buy anything with Märklin printed on it. I will probably sell to these types of customers, but it will not get any UK modellers started in 3-rail. I think they would not even take notice or care.
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 31 July 2018 23:53:30(UTC)
RayF

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I might be interested in a model of this loco made by Hornby or Bachmann in OO.

There is very little interest in any British loco in HO, and even less so in 3 rail.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2018 00:02:25(UTC)
steventrain

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Location: United Kingdom
Hornby make P2 Cock o the north.

http://www.hattons.co.uk..._range_/StockDetail.aspx

2-rail only.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2018 00:20:17(UTC)
Markus Schild

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Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

You are just ~80years late. In the mid 1930s Märklin made one. But with the wrong number.

2001.jpg

I like the loco. But I see no market at all for British models in 1/87. They also would look tiny next to continental models.

Regards

Markus
Offline mrmarklin  
#6 Posted : 01 August 2018 02:43:17(UTC)
mrmarklin

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Location: Burney, CA
I would personally buy this, but such a thing will never be made by Märklin.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 01 August 2018 11:11:33(UTC)
kimballthurlow

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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

You are just ~80years late. In the mid 1930s Märklin made one. But with the wrong number.

2001.jpg

I like the loco. But I see no market at all for British models in 1/87. They also would look tiny next to continental models.

Regards

Markus


I would buy one of the L70/12920 if one ever came by me ....
I think it was O gauge.
But I expect it never will.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 01 August 2018 20:12:31(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post

I like the loco. But I see no market at all for British models in 1/87. They also would look tiny next to continental models.

Regards

Markus


There is a very small UK 1/87 modelling group, but would be two rail only.

I can't see any sense in Marklin doing a model of the loco unless it was going to do a major push into the UK market, involving a number of locomotives, coaching stock and goods stock, all at the same time. Unless they did that there would be no worthwhile market.

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Offline kweekalot  
#9 Posted : 01 August 2018 22:17:18(UTC)
kweekalot

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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
There is a very small UK 1/87 modelling group, but would be two rail only.

I always thought there were still a lot of Trix Twin Railway (H0 3-rail DC) enthusiasts in the UK, with several TTR clubs, like the TTRCA and such.

www.ttrca.co.uk/index.html
Offline jvuye  
#10 Posted : 01 August 2018 22:26:00(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hornby make P2 Cock o the north.

http://www.hattons.co.uk..._range_/StockDetail.aspx

2-rail only.


Shouldn't be too hard to convert to three rails..Wink ThumpUp
But to answer the original question, I'd say yes providing it's true Märklin , not another subcontracting job like the Hogwart Express...Crying Laugh
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#11 Posted : 01 August 2018 22:31:15(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 127
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
I would buy this one, but for obvious reasons, I think Marklin will never produce this. On the other hand ... they were surprised by the success of the French 39241 and we all know what happen. Many of us preordered her from our dealers and never got her.

Anyway ... back to our topic... wish that Marklin would produce British steamers!!!

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
Offline DaleSchultz  
#12 Posted : 01 August 2018 23:02:47(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
no
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 02 August 2018 10:55:00(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
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Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
no


Likewise!

But then I don't know why Alex continues to ask these silly questions since the chances of Marklin ever making this and some of the other items he's mentioned are less than zero.
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Offline David Dewar  
#14 Posted : 02 August 2018 11:46:31(UTC)
David Dewar

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Pointless really unless Marklin are going to make a whole range of UK outline models. Its dying hobby in the UK anyway and Hornby I expect have most of what is left. There are of course Marklin collectors who will buy anything and sit it on a shelf.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline danmarklinman  
#15 Posted : 03 August 2018 00:32:32(UTC)
danmarklinman

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Posts: 1,377
It’s a nice idea. But unless you have the money to pay for there tooling it will never happen:-(
Personally know for me as I love French and Belgium Steam:-) I just want anther sncf 241a to come out for the fall new items.
I think though, and it is remote. An ex British war department 2 10 0 would be nice to see. As it was used in most countries after the war and used extensively by the Netherlands railways and taken into stock as well?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l6uZgso0ZPk
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
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Offline danmarklinman  
#16 Posted : 03 August 2018 00:35:23(UTC)
danmarklinman

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Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Pointless really unless Marklin are going to make a whole range of UK outline models. Its dying hobby in the UK anyway and Hornby I expect have most of what is left. There are of course Marklin collectors who will buy anything and sit it on a shelf.


Not so? As my local model shop says model trains are still very popular although increasingly expensive? It’s not just Marklin !!! That’s pricey?
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
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Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 03 August 2018 11:22:57(UTC)
RayF

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Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
There is a very small UK 1/87 modelling group, but would be two rail only.

I always thought there were still a lot of Trix Twin Railway (H0 3-rail DC) enthusiasts in the UK, with several TTR clubs, like the TTRCA and such.

www.ttrca.co.uk/index.html


I would be very surprised if groups like this have more than about twenty active members, and most of those will be well over sixty years old. The future for these minority fringes is not rosy!

Judging by the British model railway press, which in itself has dwindled recently, there is still a decent following for 00 and related fine-scale variants, N, O, and a variety of narrow gauges, but mostly of British prototypes.

I subscribe to Continental Modeller, and over the last few years there has been an increasing number of contributions from non-British modellers and most of these choose very obscure prototypes with a lot of scratch building involved. I can't remember the last time a Marklin or 3-rail model railway was featured in the magazine.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline danmarklinman  
#18 Posted : 03 August 2018 13:23:12(UTC)
danmarklinman

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Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
There is a very small UK 1/87 modelling group, but would be two rail only.

I always thought there were still a lot of Trix Twin Railway (H0 3-rail DC) enthusiasts in the UK, with several TTR clubs, like the TTRCA and such.

www.ttrca.co.uk/index.html


I would be very surprised if groups like this have more than about twenty active members, and most of those will be well over sixty years old. The future for these minority fringes is not rosy!

Judging by the British model railway press, which in itself has dwindled recently, there is still a decent following for 00 and related fine-scale variants, N, O, and a variety of narrow gauges, but mostly of British prototypes.

I subscribe to Continental Modeller, and over the last few years there has been an increasing number of contributions from non-British modellers and most of these choose very obscure prototypes with a lot of scratch building involved. I can't remember the last time a Marklin or 3-rail model railway was featured in the magazine.

Hi Ray. I got bored with Continental modeller years ago? The editor is a big Australian rail fan, it seems. As this features a lot. It has also been very pro 2 rail anyway as it’s published by Peco publications who are affiliated with Peco track. And so anything European is almost always 2 rail?
Dispite 3 rail still being very popular in mainland Europe.
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
Offline MaerklinLife  
#19 Posted : 03 August 2018 14:12:17(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Judging from the number of Youtube channels regarding British Model Railways, there is a great following in the UK. Also many younger people, which is good to see. The models are not as pricey as Märklin models, I am not sure if people collect the same way either. It seems like a lot of people are modelling one specific prototype on a small layout owning only a few locos.
Offline David Dewar  
#20 Posted : 03 August 2018 21:28:07(UTC)
David Dewar

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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Judging from the number of Youtube channels regarding British Model Railways, there is a great following in the UK. Also many younger people, which is good to see. The models are not as pricey as Märklin models, I am not sure if people collect the same way either. It seems like a lot of people are modelling one specific prototype on a small layout owning only a few locos.


Not sure which company they are buying from. Hornby report a further ten million pound loss with continuing falling sales.
Directors have arranged for further capital to keep them going but I dont see them continuing for much longer in their present form. As Ray says most railway modellers are over 50 with youngsters more into computer type games etc. Germany is slightly different but even there many companies are not doing well but are trying to combine with others. Kibri is an example.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#21 Posted : 03 August 2018 21:50:43(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
They seem to buy mainly from Hornby and Bachmann. I don't believe the doom and gloom most people seem to think about the hobby.

I am aware of Hornby's finiancial challenges, none the less, most Youtube reviews and unboxings are about their products.

The model railway hobby will continue to exist. Since the dawn of time people has been fascinated by miniatures. As long as there are trains, people will build models of them. It is in the human nature to build miniatures.
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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 03 August 2018 22:20:03(UTC)
RayF

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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My point was that you just don't see 3-rail layouts in UK. Even if Continental Modeller were biased in favour of 2-rail, have you attended any model railway exhibitions where there were 3-rail layouts on show? Have you tried to go into any model shop and ask for 3-rail trains?

The market just seems to have disappeared for Marklin in UK. The reasons are probably complicated, but I believe it's all about the perception that Marklin is too expensive for ordinary people and also the aversion in the UK fine-scale scene to the line of point contacts in the track and the slider under the loco.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#23 Posted : 04 August 2018 06:20:41(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
The main reason for this, I think, is that Märklin do not produce any UK stuff. I believe that the majority of people would like to run what they see in real life. Märklin has none of that.

I also believe that the OO scale plays a role as well. UK modellers into OO cannot be expected to suddenly go buy a H0 model.

I really don't think there is a chance for Märklin to ever come back into the UK.

Personally the OO scale is what is keeping me from diving into UK modeling. I just don't see the point of this weird scale.

3 rail has no real presence in the UK, as you also mention, so it would be like starting from scratch. Let's face it, if Märklin's 3 rail system was introduced today, in a 2 rail world, it probably wouldn't sell very well. I think it would be like that in the UK.

Same thing goes for OO scale, if it was introduced today, it would not sell very well. The weird combination of H0 track and oversized locos wouldn't be a hit.

On the other hand if a bunch of manufactures got together and introduced a complete line of H0 UK rolling stock, locos and accessories, there might be a chance. But it needs to be complete and it needs to be H0 and 2 rail. Just the cost of this adventure, I think, is enough to predict that this will most likely never happen.
Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 04 August 2018 08:50:00(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
The main reason for this, I think, is that Märklin do not produce any UK stuff. I believe that the majority of people would like to run what they see in real life. Märklin has none of that.

I also believe that the OO scale plays a role as well. UK modellers into OO cannot be expected to suddenly go buy a H0 model.

I really don't think there is a chance for Märklin to ever come back into the UK.

Personally the OO scale is what is keeping me from diving into UK modeling. I just don't see the point of this weird scale.

3 rail has no real presence in the UK, as you also mention, so it would be like starting from scratch. Let's face it, if Märklin's 3 rail system was introduced today, in a 2 rail world, it probably wouldn't sell very well. I think it would be like that in the UK.

Same thing goes for OO scale, if it was introduced today, it would not sell very well. The weird combination of H0 track and oversized locos wouldn't be a hit.

On the other hand if a bunch of manufactures got together and introduced a complete line of H0 UK rolling stock, locos and accessories, there might be a chance. But it needs to be complete and it needs to be H0 and 2 rail. Just the cost of this adventure, I think, is enough to predict that this will most likely never happen.


Lima tried to kick off the H0 market in UK in the seventies, with a range of nice models. There were steam and diesel locos and a range of wagons and coaches. It was well done, but it was doomed to failure. Eventually they gave up and re-tooled everything in 00 to conform to the rest of the UK standard. They probably lost millions on the experiment.

I quite liked the Lima class 33 that was part of their H0 range. At the time I had some Lima HO continental trains and I thought about adding it to my small collection, but the couplings were different.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#25 Posted : 04 August 2018 09:49:27(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Another problem with the UK material is the focus on using the weird tension lock couplings. Some models have NEM-pockets, most new one does, so that I could exchange the couplings with other types. But a lot of material still has a fixed tension lock coupling with no short coupler mechanics and such. This is just not for me. Unfortunately the Hornby HST is one of those models. It simply does not look right with that gap between the coaches. We have moved away from that ages ago. A shame, because the model is pretty nice.

Lot of UK stuff seems very "toyish" compared to the continental models.

If UK H0 were to succeed in the UK it would require a huge amount of different models on launch, and it would require starter sets with value for money in a way that is greater than what they have today. It would also require the dealers to embrace H0 (which is probably difficult) and it would require some sort of guarantee that this is not a "one off". Manufacturers would need to have patience. Not many will buy into anything that might be going away again.
Last but not least, it would require a demand from the users. I don't see this demand being very strong. There are people who run 4m and convert their models to do so, but it is a niche. There are people who run H0 UK, but again, a niche. The average hobbyist seem to be satisfied with what is available. PECO has made some nice tracks that are H0 in gauge, but OO in scale. This is quite nice because it fools the eye to think that the track is wider than it actually is.

Starting up H0 in the UK is not impossible, but I think it is close to impossible. The only real way of getting the UK to switch is to have Hornby and Bachman ditch OO and produce H0 only. Give the customers no choice but to slowly switch. I don't see that happening either.

It is funny how history has had its impact on how things are today. I would have expected OO to have been gone as soon as it was possible to create the models in H0. It never happened. Märklin exists as a "thing" because it is 3-rail. Had Märklin gone 2-rail when everybody else did, I am not sure it would be a "thing" today.
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Offline GlennM  
#26 Posted : 23 August 2018 11:07:22(UTC)
GlennM

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Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Some of these questions will soon be answered, although it will not be a model of the Prince of Wales..........................
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline David Dewar  
#27 Posted : 23 August 2018 11:16:27(UTC)
David Dewar

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Location: Scotland
I see Hornby have now got a new chief executive to try to turn things round but other than scaling back and becoming a small private company and coming out of Airfix and just producing some start sets and a few locos each year I don't see much hope for them. The market just keeps getting smaller for all manufacturers but I reckon Marklin will keep me going OK but not in the UK for sales of their goods.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 23 August 2018 14:54:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I see Hornby have now got a new chief executive to try to turn things


My understanding is that he is the owner/ceo of Oxford Diecast that produces model vehicles. He is reputed to be a switched on guy that is already in the industry, and the comment that I read was he is deemed to be a 'good thing' (tm) for Hornby.

Offline David Dewar  
#29 Posted : 23 August 2018 17:09:13(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,332
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I see Hornby have now got a new chief executive to try to turn things


My understanding is that he is the owner/ceo of Oxford Diecast that produces model vehicles. He is reputed to be a switched on guy that is already in the industry, and the comment that I read was he is deemed to be a 'good thing' (tm) for Hornby.



The problem Alan is the lack of customers. I am sure they can reduce costs but increasing sales in a falling market will not be easy.
The company can of course try to change direction and produce something new which will attract the younger gereration. All may not be lost but I cant see the companly continuing for a further 5/10 years doing what it does now. The Airfix section appears also to be older guys who are still building plastic kits and there is still competition in that market from many others outside the UK.


Trying to get youngsters away from phones and tablets is proving difficult .....some are even running a model railway with a phone which probably shows where the hobby is going in the future.

The shares did improve a couple of months ago but have since turned back down again although not as yet to a previous low.

Maybe they could approach Marklin with a view to distributing their products in the UK direct to the public through their retail outlet at a reasonable price.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline GlennM  
#30 Posted : 24 August 2018 12:56:36(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Some of these questions will soon be answered, although it will not be a model of the Prince of Wales..........................


If I am not mistaken, and excluding the Harry Potter which was basically a Hornby project, this will be the first British outline loco since the 'Warship'. Will be interesting to see just how popular it will be.............
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline RayF  
#31 Posted : 24 August 2018 14:03:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Forgive my ignorance, but are we saying that Marklin are definitely producing a British outline locomotive?

Please share if anyone has real knowledge about this.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#32 Posted : 25 August 2018 16:31:56(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Forgive my ignorance, but are we saying that Marklin are definitely producing a British outline locomotive?

Please share if anyone has real knowledge about this.


I believe that the point of this thread was just to ask about interest in a Märklin model of the Prince of Wales loco. I don't recall anyone indicating that it would actually ever happen.

I would be interested but for whatever reason Märklin does not make models of British locos, even though many of them are beautiful. Then even if they did make some GB locos there is the total lack of any British rolling stock to go behind them, so it seems extremely unlikely to me.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline RayF  
#33 Posted : 25 August 2018 20:17:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Forgive my ignorance, but are we saying that Marklin are definitely producing a British outline locomotive?

Please share if anyone has real knowledge about this.


I believe that the point of this thread was just to ask about interest in a Märklin model of the Prince of Wales loco. I don't recall anyone indicating that it would actually ever happen.

I would be interested but for whatever reason Märklin does not make models of British locos, even though many of them are beautiful. Then even if they did make some GB locos there is the total lack of any British rolling stock to go behind them, so it seems extremely unlikely to me.


I'm sorry Jim, but Glenn's comments above seem to imply that we will see a British loco soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by: GlennM
Some of these questions will soon be answered, although it will not be a model of the Prince of Wales..........................


Maybe I have misread his comments?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#34 Posted : 26 August 2018 00:58:32(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Maybe I have misread his comments?


And perhaps Ray, so have I. Time will tell.

I would consider any British loco from Märklin a most noteworthy occurance and one that would be a cause for celebration, so I hope that you are correct. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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