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Offline Torbjorn  
#1 Posted : 31 July 2018 13:44:24(UTC)
Torbjorn


Joined: 26/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Norway
Dear all,

Searching for topics on my question gave no results, so I am posting a new topic.
These last months I have bought some non-Märklin models in 2R DCC, and I use the Central Station 2 to control these.
When making a new registration for a new DCC model in the CS2, I place the model on the programming track, choose DCC-protocol instead of MFX, insert address and press the programming track icon. The locomotive then usually moves slightly, and the lights may blink. The locomotive is then programmed, and I can control it just as easily as my MFX locomotives.

So far I have been programming mainly Roco locomotives, but also a few from BRAWA and other ones with ESU and ZIMO decoders. Yesterday, a used Athearn Genesis model of an F7 diesel locomotive arrived in the mail. It has a decoder from SoundTraxx with Tsunami sound. As usual, I placed the locomotive on the programming track. It immideately started emitting diesel engine sounds. I reckon this is from the last time it was used, when the seller in eBay made a video for me of the model driving and showing the sound functions. And the locomotive "remembered" this. When pushing the programming icon on the screen of the CS2, the sound stopped, the lights blinked and the locomotive moved slightly. As usual. So far everything was normal and as expected.

But the CS2 then gave me an error message, saying the programming was not sucessful. At least this is what I think it tried to say. After the last Märklin software update, some (!) of my English menues became German, and new software updates or adjusting the language to German and back to English has not solved the problem. But that is another matter. The locomotive flashed its headlights ten times, stopped, and flashed again ten times. From SoundTraxx' webpages, I see this means it displays error code #10, which is too high voltage. If the decoder senses more than 21 Volts, it shuts down to protect the electronics. On the display of my CS2, I see that the track has 22,5 Volts. According to NMRA/NEM standards for DCC in H0 scale, the track should have 14 Volts.

My question is therefore twofold:
1) Has some of you succeded in mating a SoundTraxx decoder with the Märklin CS2;
2) Is there some way to adjust and lower the track voltage from 22,5 V to, say, 14 V on the CS2?

Thank you very much for Your feedback.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 31 July 2018 15:04:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Torbjorn Go to Quoted Post
2) Is there some way to adjust and lower the track voltage from 22,5 V to, say, 14 V on the CS2?
To reduce the output voltage of the CS2, just reduce the input voltage of the CS2.

I assume you are using a transformer with 16 V AC.
Instead get a switching-mode power supply with 19 V DC to reduce the track voltage. Some Märklin locos need around 19 V DC, so it is most likely a bad idea to reduce the track voltage to 14 V.

AFAIK decoders for H0 gauge should be able to handle track voltages up to 24 V - but it seems SoundTraxx is an exception here.
I don't have any SoundTraxx decoders.

When Märklin updated the CS2 with support for 32 functions, many screens that used to be English became German again. But that is another topic.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Torbjorn  
#3 Posted : 31 July 2018 20:49:24(UTC)
Torbjorn


Joined: 26/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Norway
Thank you, H0, for your input.

I am indeed using a transformer with an output of 16 VAC, namely Märklin 60052. From what I understand, this is an "old-school" iron core transformer with an output of 60 VA. I am not at home, so I am not able to messure it with a multimeter, but I am told these kind of transformer can have higher voltage than rated when without a load. When the CS2 says on its display it has 23-24 volts, I am guessing this is the output (and the voltage on the programming track will be almost the same). I have been told that voltage increases when the CS2 changes the current from AC to DC, so this is probably why I am seeing 23-24 V out.

On some online discussion, I saw someone writing about adjusting the output voltage on the CS2 (or CS3), but when looking at the user manual, it looks like they do not have this function. The ESU Command Station seems to have this possibility: http://www.esu.eu/upload..._February_2010_eBook.pdf )page 11).

I have been considering Märklins 60061, which is not a transformer, but a switched mode power pack. After reading a little bit on the net this evening, it seems decoders control motor speed by pulse width modulation (PWM), which seems to be sending full track voltage to the motor, but adjusting the duration of the time power is sent to the motor. Short time = slow speed, and increased speed by increasing the time power is sent. Some argue that higher voltage, say 21 V and more, is increasing wear and tear on the motor (which are harder to maintain, like changing brushes, because they are made as maintenance-free). So there might be advantages on decreasing track voltage.

Seems like the 60061 is the way to go.
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2018 08:40:15(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Torbjorn Go to Quoted Post
... According to NMRA/NEM standards for DCC in H0 scale, the track should have 14 Volts. ...


?????????

Wit reference to
https://www.nmra.org/sit...rical_standards_2006.pdf
It is worth recognising the RMS and max voltage terminology

While there is a "Typ" (= typical) line on the graphs, there is nothing wrong with 22V.
(That said, A CS2 with a 60101 and no/low load will measure 24V plus, and drop to 22V after about 1Amp load

+/-22V represents the amplitudes of the digital square wave (Has been this value since the 6020)

A non "true RMS" meter may register a lower value because it only detects the + OR - side of the wave form and there are idle packets
(A cheap meter may actually show > 30 V)

If you do not have (or know you have) a true RMS meter, make two measurements with the probes normal and reversed.

Peter
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2018 22:27:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
I assume the voltage readings in this thread are coming from the internal voltmeter of the CS2, however accurate that may be.

I expect that the output voltage of a 60101 will be close to 19 V DC under any load and theoretically the track voltage cannot be higher than the feeder voltage when DC is used.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#6 Posted : 05 August 2018 10:27:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: Torbjorn Go to Quoted Post
Dear all,

Searching for topics on my question gave no results, so I am posting a new topic.
These last months I have bought some non-Märklin models in 2R DCC, and I use the Central Station 2 to control these.
When making a new registration for a new DCC model in the CS2, I place the model on the programming track, choose DCC-protocol instead of MFX, insert address and press the programming track icon. The locomotive then usually moves slightly, and the lights may blink. The locomotive is then programmed, and I can control it just as easily as my MFX locomotives.

So far I have been programming mainly Roco locomotives, but also a few from BRAWA and other ones with ESU and ZIMO decoders. Yesterday, a used Athearn Genesis model of an F7 diesel locomotive arrived in the mail. It has a decoder from SoundTraxx with Tsunami sound. As usual, I placed the locomotive on the programming track. It immideately started emitting diesel engine sounds. I reckon this is from the last time it was used, when the seller in eBay made a video for me of the model driving and showing the sound functions. And the locomotive "remembered" this. When pushing the programming icon on the screen of the CS2, the sound stopped, the lights blinked and the locomotive moved slightly. As usual. So far everything was normal and as expected.

But the CS2 then gave me an error message, saying the programming was not sucessful. At least this is what I think it tried to say. After the last Märklin software update, some (!) of my English menues became German, and new software updates or adjusting the language to German and back to English has not solved the problem. But that is another matter. The locomotive flashed its headlights ten times, stopped, and flashed again ten times. From SoundTraxx' webpages, I see this means it displays error code #10, which is too high voltage. If the decoder senses more than 21 Volts, it shuts down to protect the electronics. On the display of my CS2, I see that the track has 22,5 Volts. According to NMRA/NEM standards for DCC in H0 scale, the track should have 14 Volts.

My question is therefore twofold:
1) Has some of you succeded in mating a SoundTraxx decoder with the Märklin CS2;
2) Is there some way to adjust and lower the track voltage from 22,5 V to, say, 14 V on the CS2?

Thank you very much for Your feedback.


It shows 22,5 volts from the CS2?
It seems oversized of the voltage...
As standard for the two rail DCC it´s 16-18 volts.
Märklin do have little higher output to the track...18-19 volts as normally.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 05 August 2018 10:35:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It shows 22,5 volts from the CS2?
It seems oversized of the voltage...
As standard for the two rail DCC it´s 16-18 volts.
Märklin do have little higher output to the track...18-19 volts as normally.
About 23 V was the standard voltage with Märklin controllers since the days of the 6020 and 6021. This changed when they introduced power supplies with 18 V DC for the MS2 and 19 V DC for the CS2.
Operating an MS2 or CS2 with 16 V AC will give you around 23 V track voltage - that's what you get when rectifying 16 V AC with a buffering capacitor.
The 6021 has a DIP switch that allows to reduce the track voltage.
With the CS2 you have to reduce the input voltage.
Same with CS1 and ECoS, but the newer power supplies for ECoS and CS1 reloaded are adjustable.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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